Rumble in the Motor City

ProvoAnC · Post by **ProvoAnC** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:08 am

what a f***in joke. Those cock-suckers (NBA) are such a bunch of f***in d***** bags. No wonder I gave up on most professional sports. Most of those asshats belong in a jail cell and not a basketball court.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:41 am

what a f***ing joke. Those cock-suckers (NBA) are such a bunch of f***ing d***** bags. No wonder I gave up on most professional sports. Most of those asshats belong in a jail cell and not a basketball court.

I think you need to add the first fan who tossed the water on Artest and all the Pistons fans who were involved with tossing water/chairs and anything they could find on the Indiana players as they left the court.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:35 am

The NFL must love this. Kind of makes a little sexual content seem even more trivial.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 10:27 am

When seeing the espn coverage, at first I thought it was Rasheed Wallace who started it, not Ben. Oh well, when you have two spoiled violent punks like Artest and Rasheed, fights are bound to happen.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:23 am

sf_z wrote:In case you forgot, Artest's CD is released Tuesday on Tru Warier Records http://www.truwarierrecords.com/. Even non-basketball fans will know who he is by then. Plus, he'll have some time off to promote it.

No s***!?

Artest he is the Tru Warrior.
That record company couldnt have dreamed up a better publicity stunt.

TheFormerBrett44 · Post by **TheFormerBrett44** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:23 am

Is this really a shock this happened in Detroit? Those morons burn their own city at the drop of a hat. Say what you will about Artest, but I agree with ESPN 95%, those fans were a total joke. Little fat guys running on the court trying to take a cheap shot at an NBA player...what a f***in joke. Look at me, I'm famous...I hit Ron Artest or Jermaine O'Neal. We had better see some fans getting arrested and charged this week.

Is this what the sports world has come to? That it's OK to take a shot at a pro player? I guess it's OK because they make so much more money than us regular joes do. Even PK, usually the voice of reason around here seems to condone the fans because Artest was in a "no mans land"...please you have got to be joking.

What Artest did was wrong, but the fans were worse in my opinion. Much worse. Did you see what those scumbags were doing when the Pacers were trying to leave the court?

And by the way, I watched this live and on Sportscenter this morning, that chair came from the stands. A fan threw it at one of the players. Again, I'm completely serious, some of those fans had better be arrested for assault because you bet your ass some of the players will. A watched a b*tch thow a full bottle at Reggie Miller when he was trying to get off the court and out of the tunnel. She didn't dump liquid, she aimed and threw it as hard as she could...a full bottle. Detroit fans need to stick to burning down their own city...

Ron Artest is f***ed because he went into the stands. However, O'Neal punched a fan who came out on the floor. That's fair game in my book, that fat boy deserved to get his ass kicked....talk about sore losers.

I want to see David Stern spin this one.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:30 am

I disagree 84%.

I do agree that the Detroit fans, who were doing stuff, are almost as disgraceful as Artest.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:02 pm

Leebo33 wrote:The NFL must love this. Kind of makes a little sexual content seem even more trivial.

That's exactly what my wife just said. She said she'd much rather have my 6-year-old and 4-year-old see Nicolette Sheridan's nude back than see players and fans fighting at an NBA game.

I couldn't agree with her more. But I bet the outrage level for this incident won't be half of what it was for the "Monday Night Football" skit.

This nation's priorities are so f*cked-up it isn't funny ...

Out,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:09 pm

TheFormerBrett44 wrote:Ron Artest is f***ed because he went into the stands. However, O'Neal punched a fan who came out on the floor. That's fair game in my book, that fat boy deserved to get his ass kicked....talk about sore losers.

Brett:

I couldn't agree more. Once the fan enters the court, he's fair game to get his ass kicked. Reminds me of the NFL game in the late 60s or early 70s in which the fan ran on to the field at a Baltimore Colts' game, and Colts linebacker Mike Curtis knocked him out cold. Curtis had every right to do that.

But to enter the crowd and punch the first guy in sight because you were hit with a plastic cup of liquid? Something tells me Tim Duncan or Ray Allen wouldn't have had the same reaction as Ron Artest. And if Ron Artest feels so threatened by a cup of beer, then maybe he should spend a day with the U.S. soldiers in Fallujah and learn the meaning of true fear.

Jackson probably is the most culpable of the players. He just flat-out lost it and was punching anyone he could find, and I don't believe he was hit by liquid.

This whole thing is just a farce. An incident that's a perfect metaphor for today's NBA, which tacitly approves of its stars to live the thug life, on and off the court. What do you expect from fans of a league in which the thug culture is endorsed, regardless of race?

I mean, come on, people were stabbed last weekend at a hip-hop awards show. It was the first incident of its kind that I can remember, so of course it was the exception rather than the rule. But when was the last time someone was stabbed at the Oscars, Grammy's or Tony's?

Is the day when a fan uses a weapon against an NBA player in a crowd fracas that far away? I don't think so, sadly. I never thought in a million years that an NBA player could be shot or stabbed in one of these incidents in the future.

I'm not so sure now after last night.

Take care,
PK

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:12 pm

As a former Michigan and Detroit area resident (grew up in the suburbs) that now lives 30 minutes from downtown Indy, this was particularly close to home for me. I was at a poker night last night and we had the game on TV. As a Detroit fan it absolutely made me feel sick. A Pacer fan buddy of mine sent me an email about it that I mostly agreed with. For the sake of simplicity I'll just post my response to that:

----
Actually I think we agree on most of your points. Here’s my spin (also the average Detroiter perspective I hope):

1) Ben Wallace – While there is no way for him to have known that a fan would throw something from the stands and no way to know Artest would charge into the stands, if he leaves the court after being ejected, I really don’t think any of this would’ve happened. Wallace’s refusal to leave the court dragged out the situation and helped foster the conditions for everything else to happen. That’s bad. Ultimately, among the players, he bears the second most responsibility for what happened.

2) Ron Artest – I think if Rick Carlisle had known he wanted a month off from basketball *that* badly he’d have just given it to him.

Seriously, though, a player *cannot* go into the stands under any circumstances. I understand a fan hit him with a drink. But you just cannot do that. Among the players Ron Artest bears the ultimate responsibility because once a player goes into the stands all bets are off. And I feel I can say that because…

3) The Fans – How many fans who had nothing to do with anything got run over while Artest and other players charged into the crowd? How many fans in the middle of it were there to try and keep players and instigators separate and how many were there to join the mob? The answer is, there is no way to know. One of the fans who was throwing punches started out –by appearances- trying to pull Artest off the initial fan he was retaliating against (how Artest knows the drink came from that guy he attacked, btw, I have no idea). Then he started throwing punches. Now granted, as a fan, you absolutely *cannot* do that either, but once you’re in the middle of it, where do you consciously draw the line between just trying to restrain a guy and throwing punches to get him down? I honestly don’t know, but that’s exactly why you can’t go into the crowd as a player in the first place. Artest and the other players created pandemonium by going into the crowd.

That said, they absolutely should use video to identify any fans who exacerbated the situation. If any of them are season ticket holders, they should be tossed and never again be allowed into a Pistons game. Any fan who can be identified as *initiating* physical contact with a player should be charged with assault, whether their initial intent was to pull players off of other fans or not. Any player going into the stands and clearly throws punches at a fan who *didn’t* first throw a punch at them, should be charged with assault. If a player got punched by a fan in the stands and then retaliated, that is self defense. But I’m convinced I saw at least one player punch a fan who was just there. (And I get that in that situation you don’t know who’s just there and who’s a threat to your person, but that’s just another reason why you don’t go into the stands in the first place.)

Now, no player should be charged with anything if he hit a fan who was on the court (obviously, I’m speaking of O’Neal here). Just like players cannot go into the stands, *no* fan can go down onto the court. Any fan hit by a player on the court, well, tough s***. You shouldn’t have been there.

4) The Punishments – Like I sad, any fan who threw punches should be forever-banned from attending Pistons games. Any fan shown to be an instigator should be charged with assault. I honestly don’t know where you draw the line in terms of legal charges against players so I’ll remain neutral on the idea of any players being legally charged (unless they punched a fan who’s only crime was being in the vicinity). From the NBA. Artest and Wallace have to receive the longest suspensions. With Stephen Jackson getting his share and maybe Jermaine O’Neal (he certainly appeared to be in the thick of it, but I think in his case a lot depends on the actual context of his actions and what he was doing off-camera).

Artest should get a *minimum* of a month out of the league (maybe more). Wallace should get something that’s at least half as severe, maybe the same. I know Wallace didn’t appear to do anything (that I saw) once the donnybrook entered the stands, but he has to understand that his refusal to leave the court was the match being held to the fuse. And a message has to be sent to Artest that you do not under any circumstance enter the stands. The wonks on ESPN are saying that once he got hit with a drink all bets were off, but they’re absolutely 100% wrong. It made the situation infinitely worse when he entered the stands. At that point, fans who may only just be standing there are suddenly a part of the mob and in that situation how any individual reacts is anybody’s guess.

5) Rasheed Wallace – Out of all this the incredible irony to me is that supposed malcontent and NBA poison Rasheed Wallace is an example of a player who behaved (from what I could see) exactly how you want a player to behave. He was in the middle of the on the court melee trying to separate players from each other. When it went into the stands he started to go in (from all appearances to keep fans away) but stopped, appeared to realize this was out of his control, and got back down onto the court. That is how you want a player to behave in that situation, in my opinion. (Again, this is if I’m interpreting what I saw correctly. I mean who knows what was in any player or fan’s head?)

6) In Summary - I can only say that as a Pistons fan I’m absolutely humiliated. I saw it all happen live at a poker night last night and I was just absolutely sick to my stomach. As I think the numerous pictures of children in the stands crying and parents trying to comfort them show, this is just not representative of Detroit or Detroit sports fans. And if I hear anyone (not referring to anyone in this email, I just mean in general) say this could not have happened in another city… well, I guess nothing, but they’re just flat wrong. Anytime you have irrational human beings (players with 5 cent heads and drunken fans with 2 cent heads), there is the potential for something like this to happen (and yeah, alcohol should be banned at Pistons games for at least the remainder of the season). It could have just as easily happened in Indiana, LA, Chicago, Milwaukee, etc. And if you don’t believe that, believe this, at a poker night last night I was with eight total people (including myself). There were three people who said nothing (I think they were too stunned), three of us who flat out condemned it (including myself and Angie, of course) and two (who were Pacers fans) who said, and I quote, “that was awesome.” Now bear in mind that I like and respect both individuals who said that, but that kind of statement is just… sad. A sad comment on how too many of us (Americans) tend to glorify violence (not fake movie violence, but real, dangerous violence) in this country.

Anyway, that’s my take. For those who disagree, this wasn’t meant to offend. Just my opinion.
---Todd

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:33 pm

From the report in today's <i>Indianapolis Star</i> about the melee:

>>>>>
Fan Mike Ryan, of Clarkston, Mich., speaking about Artest, said: "I have no idea what happened. All of a sudden he was on top of me, punching me, saying, 'Did you do it? Did you do it?' "

"I said, 'No, man, no.' Then he got off of me and moved on to the next guy."
<<<<<

If that's true, then Artest should be suspended for the season without pay. Punching anyone he could find first and then asking questions second. What a quality guy.

And comments like this prove that the NBA is secretly somewhat relishing this incident, especially since the ratings for the first rematch between these teams, on Christmas Day, will have sky-high ratings:

>>>>>
The Pacers' plane landed about 1:30 a.m. today at Indianapolis International Airport. About two dozen fans showed up, several of them to support the players.

"This is awesome," said Bobby Large, 24, Greenwood. "This is the craziest thing I have seen in sports live in a long time."
<<<<<<

Fan-tastic.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:38 pm

Finally, how much of a fine do you think it will take for the Pistons to wake up and get more and better-trained security at the Palace?

$250,000? $500,000?

That sounds about right to me. What do you cats think?

Take care,
PK

ProvoAnC · Post by **ProvoAnC** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:39 pm

I don't agree that if a fan comes on the court he's fair game. You can tell that the dude in question was trying to get in on it too, but what if it was a fan that saw the court as the only way to get away from the melee. You can't say they could've gone in a different direction unless you were in this person's shoes. So I'm a scared fan, I see the court as my escape, and I get jacked by 2 douchebags...oh well, so sad? Lets say I'm a fan than comes on the court to start something (how it appeared). From what I saw on the tape, he didn't actively do anything, but got punched twice. That's battery my friends, and depending on the extent of injuries, it could be substantial battery.

The fan that threw the PLASTIC cup of LIQUID, not razor encrusted glass death cup full of hand grenades, isn't an angel and should wind up with a DC ticket. Running after someone and throwing haymakers at anyone in your path after getting hit with a plastic cup is NOT self-defense. And its NOT mutual combat. Throwing a glass bottle at someone, maybe DC while armed...if no injuries occur.

You can say what you want about how tough you are and how you were raised, but getting a beer cup thrown on you does not justify you going completey ape s***. You're a multi-million dollar NBA star, don't be such a p***y. I think PK already mentioned it, but would a Tim Duncan or any other respectable NBA player react the same way? I highly doubt it.

Added securtiy...for who? To keep the players out of the stands or the fans away from the court? Speaks wonders about today's culture...

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:03 pm

pk500 wrote:Finally, how much of a fine do you think it will take for the Pistons to wake up and get more and better-trained security at the Palace?

$250,000? $500,000?

That sounds about right to me. What do you cats think?

Take care,
PK

I say $0.

Fuc'em. The second players went into the stands throwing punches all bets were off. It's Detroit! How stupid do you have to be to go into the stands in Detroit? NBA Stupid I guess. The NBA thugs should be glad the fans that couldn't afford courtside seats didn't make their way down into the fray. Today the NBA would'nt be talking about a fight,they would be talking a funeral.

How's this? Pack all the badasses of the NBA up and send them to Iraq. Let them get thuggish on some insurgents. They have the money to equip themselves with the best $hit on the market. Let them work that $hit out.

Fuc ESPN and all their spin blaming the fan's. Bull$hit!

Damn just when I started to show some intrest in the NBA.

PK your right............The NBA is Fan-tastic.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:04 pm

One of the fans who was throwing punches started out –by appearances- trying to pull Artest off the initial fan he was retaliating against (how Artest knows the drink came from that guy he attacked, btw, I have no idea).

The fan who tried to pull Artest off the other fan WAS the guy who through the beer. Jim Grey confirmed it.

I disagree with you about Wallace. He should be suspended for starting and being involved with a player fight. From what I could gather, thats all he did. Most if not all players do not immediately leave the court after a player fight. In a perfect world they would but, obviously, the NBA is not a perfect world. If there is proof of him entering the crowd and doing what Artest and Stephen "I'm an A-Hole thug" Jackson did then fine/suspend him big time. Wallace should get the default suspension for starting/being involved with a player fight. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is about 5 games.

Artest and Jackson should be hammered. Yes Artest was provoked but I'm in PK's camp here. You just can't go into the crowd and if you are too stupid to realize that then there is no place for you in the league. Call me a cinic but I can't help but think Artest is glad this happend so he can have his "month" off. I seriously think the guy has psychological problems. This incident only solidifies my theory. Again, my theory, disagree if you like. I know the Bulls were ecstatic to get rid of him.

As far as the worst of the bunch, the fans involved, the video should be reviewed and they should be brought up on charges. This was a riot atmosphere so things went on that are common in those situations but the above mentoned players/fans have no excuse.

Then there are the idiots on the ESPN Shootaround show. I lost so much respect for John Saunders that I could puke. The other guys are not too far behind. Unfortunately, ESPN is probably going to exploit the hell out of this. I can see it now...Christmas day and the Pacers/Pistons game will overshadow one of America's most joyed holidays (for some). Ah....I'm done my rant. Feel free to agree/disagree.

TheFormerBrett44 · Post by **TheFormerBrett44** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:07 pm

ProvoAnC wrote:I don't agree that if a fan comes on the court he's fair game.

In most states it is against the law for a fan to enter the field of play for any reason. Your arguement is a joke. For safety? How about heading the other way, toward the concourse. Those fans were not running onto the court for safety reasons. All those morons that run out on the field and run around at baseball games get arrested for tresspassing. Again, it's against the law. And I 100% agree and support any player that kicks a fans ass ON THE FIELD/COURT of play.

Anyone remember when Vernon "Mad Max" Maxwell went into the stands and choked that fan about 10-12 years ago? What kind of suspension did he get? I can't remember.

I think that the Pistons should be fined 1 million dollars for lack of security. The NBA needs to send a message about safety, this is happening in sports way too often. Don't just suspend and fine the players, that just sends a message to those dipship fans that anythings goes. Sick of a player? Attack him and he'll get suspended. Again, I better see some fans getting arrested over this incident and a heavy fine for the Pistons.

Brett

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:09 pm

TheFormerBrett44 wrote:
ProvoAnC wrote:I don't agree that if a fan comes on the court he's fair game.
In most states it is against the law for a fan to enter the field of play for any reason. Your arguement is a joke. For safety? How about heading the other way, toward the concourse. Those fans were not running onto the court for safety reasons. All those morons that run out on the field and run around at baseball games get arrested for tresspassing. Again, it's against the law. And I 100% agree and support any player that kicks a fans ass ON THE FIELD/COURT of play.

Anyone remember when Vernon "Mad Max" Maxwell went into the stands and choked that fan about 10-12 years ago? What kind of suspension did he get? I can't remember.

I think that the Pistons should be fined 1 million dollars for lack of security. The NBA needs to send a message about safety, this is happening in sports way too often. Don't just suspend and fine the players, that just sends a message to those dipship fans that anythings goes. Sick of a player? Attack him and he'll get suspended. Again, I better see some fans getting arrested over this incident and a heavy fine for the Pistons.

Brett

If I'm not mistaken, the NBA is in charge of security in all arenas. Again, I may be way off on this one.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:13 pm

Artest was hit by a cup.
He had no idea who hit him with the cup so he just punched the first guy he saw.

Yeah ESPN keep defending these scumbags and just see how much of a product you will have left to televise.
This league has been going down the toliet for years....Push that FF bottun ..f***in morons.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:18 pm

Diablo25 wrote:
One of the fans who was throwing punches started out –by appearances- trying to pull Artest off the initial fan he was retaliating against (how Artest knows the drink came from that guy he attacked, btw, I have no idea).
The fan who tried to pull Artest off the other fan WAS the guy who through the beer. Jim Grey confirmed it.

I disagree with you about Wallace. He should be suspended for starting and being involved with a player fight. From what I could gather, thats all he did. Most if not all players do not immediately leave the court after a player fight. In a perfect world they would but, obviously, the NBA is not a perfect world. If there is proof of him entering the crowd and doing what Artest and Stephen "I'm an A-Hole thug" Jackson did then fine/suspend him big time. Wallace should get the default suspension for starting/being involved with a player fight. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is about 5 games.

Well taken, but let me be clear. My grievance with Ben Wallace (and as a Detroit fan I *love* that guy) is that he was tossed before the fan melee got going and he stayed out there which dragged out the on-court scuffle. I don't think it would necessarily be fair for him to get a suspension nearly as long as the one that Artest deserves, but at the same time the NBA has to send a message. If a ref throws you out of the game, you have to leave the floor. That's it. It needs to be as automatic as the suspensions for players leaving the bench during an on-court brawl (IMO).

As for the fan Artest attacked. I didn't read till after writing my post that he got the wrong guy entirely, which is really a big point I was trying to make. Players who attacked fans whose only crime was being in the vicinity should be prosecuted. It's bad enough having players attack fans (however rowdy) in the stands, but when they start swinging at the wrong people that's another level altogether.

Airdog · Post by **Airdog** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:28 pm

Wow, O'Neal just absolutely smoked that guy - he put everything he had into him. I disagree that a fan has the right to get his ass kicked because he went out onto the court. Maybe to get held back etc., but not to get punched in the face by a guy who's 6'11 and 242 pounds and who absolutely did not hold back at all.

Although Detroit's a fairly messed up city, this had the potential to happen just about anywhere, especially considering Artest went into the crowd. Crazy mobs are crazy mobs, and I doubt in Minnesota it would've been handled much better. Didn't Yankees fans throw batteries at John Rocker?

If anything, Artest pretty much wanted the time off and he gets free advertising for his CD, a CD with a release date that will probably get moved up now. He may be a tad pissed about getting a little more time off than he wanted to though.

ESPNews keeps rolling the story over and over again... the next week should be interesting for the NBA, the Detroit Lakers, and the Indiana Pacers. Oh, and for those fans who took part too.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:00 pm

Couple of things. I have been involved in a few incidents like this myself. Including a brawl in junior college where the stands emtpied on to the field.

I don't condone Artests actions, but I understand them. Getting pelted in the faee with a beer does not feel good. In an emotionally charged atmosphere like an athletic event it's just multiplied. Again I don't condone it, but I understand it. Playing at a major college that will remain nameless we had a bunch of beer poured on us, and had objects thrown at us. The only thing that saved us from climbing in to the stands was a rather high retaining wall.

For the fans that came on to the court and got hammered. That's the risk you take when you enter the playing surface looking for trouble. You have to be responsible for your actions. Those two guys were looking to square off with Artest, and they got more than they bargained for. Very similiar to the beating the Jackasses got that attacked the Royals 1st base coach.

Just another perspective.

TheFormerBrett44 · Post by **TheFormerBrett44** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:03 pm

JackDog wrote: How's this? Pack all the badasses of the NBA up and send them to Iraq. Let them get thuggish on some insurgents. They have the money to equip themselves with the best $hit on the market. Let them work that $hit out.

What would that prove? They're not trained soldiers. Perhaps with proper training Ron Artest would make a good soldier, who knows? Should we send soldiers out as replacement players for the Pacers that get suspended? You just don't make much sense with this statement.

Pro players seem to get slammed for the same things over and over, they're "thugs" and they're rich. Therefore they have no right to be a human being. I'm not giving Artest a free pass, he deserves to be punished.

Brett

ProvoAnC · Post by **ProvoAnC** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:11 pm

TheFormerBrett44 wrote:
ProvoAnC wrote:I don't agree that if a fan comes on the court he's fair game.
In most states it is against the law for a fan to enter the field of play for any reason. Your arguement is a joke.

Brett

are you serious? Like I said, if someone runs on to the court to get away from the melee, that's what they did. Not what YOU would do. Perception is reality. Especially when tunnel vision and fight or flight kicks in. I've seen plenty of people run around like chickens with their heads cut off when you start throwing some stress on them and their supposed to be trained on how to break the tunnel vision, multi-task, and focus on the objective. You want a regular Joe to be able to make sound decisions when some 6'8" POS is running and swinging at them? If they thought they'd be safer on the court, that's what they thought. But since you're around to read everyone's mind, I guess they should've run the other way.

Lets look at what you said. Its against the law to enter the court. Ok, so instead of tresspassing citations, the players can just take swings at any fan that enters the field of play? Using the same "logic" I should be able to go out thump on someone that cuts across my lawn. That makes sense. Or maybe store employees can start kicking some ass when a patron enters the "employees only" area.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:24 pm

Aw man, I cannot believe one of my fantasy guys (S. Jackson) was a part of this

I purposely stayed AWAY from Artest on draft day and tried to draft guys that at least "appeared" to not be thugs. I may cut him now just on principle.

Now on to the more serious matters of this incident. I just happened to catch it on the local news last night. They played a good chunk of it, pretyy much uncut. It was a lot more than what is up on ESPN.com or the other link that was posted in this thread.

Like pK, I wonder just how many days it will be before a player gets stabbed or shot. We've had this happen in baseball a couple of times recently. The one between the White Sox and the ROyals where the base coach got jumped comes to mind. That is a scary thought, someone dying on the field of a GAME.

As far as the players go, Artest is an idiot. It was a f&*king plastic cup of beer. What makes it even more stupid is that he didn't even assault the guy who did it. What if he trampled over a little kid on his way up the stands? As a father I can tell you that if one of my children got hurt during one of his (or Jackson's, or any of the other players) rampages, two things would fly. First the fists, then the lawsuits. You can bet there will be fans, innocent or not, who will be looking for a few $$$ as a result of this.

BTW, during the extended clip saw, I also noticed security trying to keep additional players from going up into the stands. Tinsley in particular pushed of what looks to be a security guy a couple of times before looking like he's ready to punch out the guy before eventually go up into the stands. That's was a dumb move too.