the rout is on

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:39 am

I'm pulling for the Cards the rest of the way. St. Louis is the best baseball town in America, bar none, and its fans deserve a title.

I spent two weeks in St. Louis on business in 1997 and attended two games at Busch. I was blown away by the passion, knowledge and single-minded devotion to the game by fans young and old in that city, and that was when the post-strike sores were still very much open. It was the only MLB ballpark I've been to where tons of fathers and sons were playing catch just outside the gates of the park. Very cool. Plus, my trip was from mid- to late August, and the Cards were the topic of conversation in every bar and restaurant. Not the Rams. Not the Blues. Not Mizzou. Just all Cards, all the time.

My brother also has been a Cardinals' fan for most of his 46 years, so I'll be able to squeeze a few free drinks out of him the night the night the Cards win. I'll buy him a couple, too.

Take care,
PK

RallyMonkey · Post by **RallyMonkey** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:45 am

"[img]That was a pretty damn entertaining series. I think the Houston/STL is even better though. Too bad no one except for Cardinal and Astro fans give a crap about it. "

"I completely agree. Every game in the Cards/Houston series has been close. Backe and Williams pitched masterfully in game 5 of one hit ball each and it receieved hardly any pub from the media. Two walk-off homeruns back to back in games 5 and 6. Talk about a roller coaster of emotions. [/img]"

Are you guys out of your minds? To say that series is BETTER is moronic. I'm sorry, other than the blowout in game three there has not been a relaxing moment in this series for either side. You talk about two walk-offs but discount totally Ortiz' walk off with backs against the wall. His single in the 14th in the same situation. The 2-run comebacks late in both games, Schilling, ankle bleeding, pitching a gem in Yankee stadium to force a game 7. The ebbs and flows in this series are unparalled. Remove the Sox-Yanks history and this series is still unreal simply from a baseball perspective. I've watched both series and have enjoyed both very much, but to say the Cards-Stros have been BETTER is simply ludicrous.

And db, you've seen my posts, you know i'm a level headed Sox fan and i know how good your Cards are, but i have to say that post surprised me. Impressive in it's own right, but no way better.

Having said all of that, i would love to see the Cards bats V. the Sox pitching so go Cards tonight.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:55 am

What was the deal with Giambi if Clark was such a hole in the lineup?

Yankees throw money on all these players and then discard them.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:06 am

Giambi is pretty ill. He has suffered from a benign tumor most of this season, the location of which the Yankees are being deliberately cryptic.

I've read where the guy gets so dizzy at times that he can't even drive himself to the ballpark.

I feel sorry for Giambi. Even Yankee haters should. It's one thing to rip a guy who is healthy and playing lousy, but this illness sounds pretty serious.

Take care,
PK

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:13 am

I'd forgotten about that.

But he looked like he was in uniform, in the dugout last night.

If he could have played, I'm sure he would have at least pinch hit.

TheFormerBrett44 · Post by **TheFormerBrett44** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:24 am

wco81 wrote: But he looked like he was in uniform, in the dugout last night.

Andy Pettitte is in uniform for the Astros in the dugout and there is no way he can pitch since he just had surgery. Plus, neither one of them is on the playoff LCS roster, they couldn't enter the game even if they were healthy.

Brett

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:36 am

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:38 am

Wow! That was a major league ass-kicking handed down by the Red Sox last night. Incredible!! It looked like the Yankees rolled over and died after the first inning...except for the one inning where they once again got to Pedro.

This game was a microcosm of the last 4 games played between these two teams. This was a perfect chance for redemption for Kevin Brown and Vazquez and they just did not have it. And they looked like they didn't want it either. Totally demoralizing effort. The Red Sox were once again able to get key plays from different guys and they stepped it up. The much maligned Derek Lowe came off 2 days rest and pitched a gem. Johnny Damon had been invisible up until last night. 6 RBIs!! And there were countless others in the previous 3 games. Sure, they didn't come through in every tough situation, but eventually they did. And the Yankees never did. Bottom line.

On the other hand, the Yankees players all looked like they were waiting for someone else to make a play. Not one player stepped it up and made an important play. Not one pitcher and not one batter. It's incredibly disappointing to watch an entire team fold and wilt under the pressure. I've never seen a team collectively go down the toilet all at once. All of these guys need to take a serious look in the mirror and remember what this feels like and make sure nothing like this happens again.

The biggest disappointment is that the Yankees were so close and very well should have swept this series. A few things went Boston's way and Boston capitalized on every chance they got. It's a monumental collapse, but not so much because they lost four in a row. It's the way they lost. If they had gotten blown out then all you can do is tip your cap and say they beat us soundly. But, they had opportunities out the ass for 3 straight games and couldn't make a play when it counted. 30+ men left in scoring position in 3 games. I don't care if you are playing a minor league team, that is not going to get it done. They lost this series as much as Boston won it. And that is not taking away anything from what Boston accomplished.

So, big congratulations to the Red Sox. They earned this win. The Yankees are going to have to seriously re-evaluate their roster in the offseason. I know they will and I know Steinbrenner will give them every chance to succeed. I just hope it doesn't mean adding more aging players and ignoring the pitching staff again.

BTW, I still don't think the curse is lifted. The Red Sox NEED to win the World Series. If they don't, this will only serve as a major tease.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:52 am

Great win for Boston. I am annoyed at the incredible amount of finger pointing at the Yanks that's been all over the news this morning. I really don't see it as a choke as much as I see Boston finally playing up to their level. Games 4-6 could have gone either way, and I don't think anyone could have hit Derek Lowe's sinker last night.

Which reminds me, the factor I would be most concerned about as a Boston fan is the coaching. Francona is not Grady Little, but I don't feel that he really knows how to handle his pitching staff. That's going to be key for the WS, especially if they face the Cards murderous line up.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:01 am

Great job by the Red Sox!

But I hope they don't forget there's still that one minor little detail they still need to take care of called the World Series.

I wonder if Steinbrenner's gonna blow like people are saying he is. I've heard Cashman and Torre might both take the fall for this collapse.

It's weird because the Red Sox were favored going into this series.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:44 am

RallyMonkey wrote:And db, you've seen my posts, you know i'm a level headed Sox fan and i know how good your Cards are, but i have to say that post surprised me. Impressive in it's own right, but no way better.

I'm no Cardinals fan...I just have been entertained more by that series. Part of it's because I'm sick of the media riding the Sox/Yankee cock...the other part is because I hate American League baseball if there is an alternative, which there is. Both series have been fantastic...I can't remember a time that both LCS' were this exciting. I simply favor the NL series...EVERY game has been close, with last at bat wins on both sides.

Post by **Jared** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:06 am

Congrats to the Sox. There were so many bounces and plays that went their way this series....every single play that the Yanks usually got, the Sox got this year. This was bound to happen at some point.

Hopefully the Yanks will look at this and rebuild intelligently and not by throwing $15 million at 39-year-old nutjob pitchers. If we sign Beltran, a good starter or two, a lefty reliever, and get some bench players that can actually contribute, we'll be in great shape. The hitting has just made the team's flaws easy to deal with. But you can't win without these things.

And firing Torre is not the answer. Even though he made some mistakes (keeping Gordon in too long in game 5 and starting Brown in game 7 were the biggest) he's still an excellent manager.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:32 am

Jared wrote:If we sign Beltran, a good starter or two, a lefty reliever, and get some bench players that can actually contribute, we'll be in great shape.

That should put you right around....225 mil.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:37 am

Jared wrote: If we sign Beltran, a good starter or two, a lefty reliever, and get some bench players that can actually contribute, we'll be in great shape. r.

lol! WOW!!! Anything else?
All that for a team that was 3 outs from the World Series?

I really hope Beltran considers OTHER options. Look what happened with Arod, they are KILLING him in NY right now. He's now a one more scapegoat for Yankee fans and media. Beltran's situation in Houston is so good it's not even close. In that ballpark, with that team, Beltran can put up some AMAZING #'s for years to come, will always be in contention for the playoffs and he won't have to go through the scrutiny of playing in NY.

Heck, if my Mets call his agent, I hope he hangs up on them....

Post by **Jared** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:47 am

I forgot that absolutely no one (except Lieber) is a free agent this year. Damn. It'll be an interesting off-season....though I think the Yanks will still go after Beltran and won't have any money for anyone else. Lots of 12-9 ballgames next year. Ugh.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:11 pm

Jared wrote:I forgot that absolutely no one (except Lieber) is a free agent this year. Damn. It'll be an interesting off-season....though I think the Yanks will still go after Beltran and won't have any money for anyone else. Lots of 12-9 ballgames next year. Ugh.

Unfortunately, the Yankees have about $170 million committed for 2005 alone. That doesn't give them a lot of wiggle room...barring trades. And, no one is going to be willing to take Giambi, Brown, Vazquez, Bernie Williams, etc.. right now. I'm not even sure they will resign Leiber. But, even so, I highly doubt they won't take a stab at Beltran.

Whatever happens, Steinbrenner will not sit tight. He will get a pitching staff together, no matter what he has to do. They need some younger pitching and a quality lefty starter. It will take more money, I just hope it gets spent a little more wisely, especially in the bullpen.

But, it's also easy to play Monday morning QB with the pitching staff. They made some quality signings that didn't pan out all the way. There was a lot of interest in Vazquez (including the Red Sox), Gordon, and Quantrill. Brown was a gamble and it was looking good in the beginning of the year. But, it didn't work out. Nobody knows how it will play out until it happens. Hell, Ortiz was in a rotation with Jeremy Giambi at the beginning of last year. No one in their right mind would have projected him to be an MVP candidate in the fashion that he has done it. Not even Boston. It's never easy projecting players, especially in NY. But, more often than not in the past few years, they have been right. So, I'll take my chances with them and hope they can do it again next year. For all the supposed holes of this team, 3 outs from the World Series and another Division title isn't bad. That's pretty damn good IMO, especially with the pressures of NY.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:15 pm

tsunami wrote:For all the supposed holes of this team, 3 outs from the World Series and another Division title isn't bad.

That's what I've been telling myself for 12 of the last 13 years.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:24 pm

Yankees have spent well over $500 million by now since their last WS.

That's right, half a billion.

They could be approaching a billion by the time they win another.

That's one expensive title.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:28 pm

wco81 wrote:Yankees have spent well over $500 million by now since their last WS.

That's right, half a billion.

They could be approaching a billion by the time they win another.

That's one expensive title.

Guess the Yankees ain't getting good bang for their.. MEGA bucks...

It only cost the Marlins like 70mil for last years ring

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:43 pm

wco81 wrote:Yankees have spent well over $500 million by now since their last WS.

That's right, half a billion.

They could be approaching a billion by the time they win another.

That's one expensive title.

Yeah, but I think they've probably raked in at least that much in that span. They broke yet another attendance record in the Bronx this year. And the Yes Network is a cash cow. Plus I'll bet there are more than twenty teams that have spent over a billion dollars since their last title.

Beltran is a great player but he isn't the guy they need. They need a Juan Pierre type guy at the top of the lineup, playing good defense, etc. The middle of the Yankee lineup is fine, especially if Giambi comes back. Their outfield though is one of the worst in baseball defensively and Jeter swings the bat way too much for a leadoff hitter.

They'll probably buy out Brown's contract, or trade him somewhere but take on a huge chunk of his salary. They might do that with quite a few guys, including Bernie.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:45 pm

Can someone explain this one?

I thought I saw him wearing those goggles on the field before the game was over. What's up with that?

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:46 pm

I just became the biggest Cardinals/Astros fan today. To say I'm sick to my stomach would be an understatement.

Memo to Torre:

Don't use Tom "The Choker" Gordon in any playoff games again.

Get rid of Javier "Crack under pressure" Vazquez and Paul "Can't get an out" Quantrill.

The Yankees lost this series because of their bullpen - including Mariano Rivera. They should have won game 4 or 5. Brian Cashman should be looking for pitching and pitching only this offseason.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:52 pm

tsunami wrote:Can someone explain this one?

I thought I saw him wearing those goggles on the field before the game was over. What's up with that?

I don't know when he put them on, it was after he was done playing though. But the Sox players all put on goggles after they won the division series, I assume because they like to pour bubbly all over their heads.

The Red Sox also set the record for the most champagne wasted in the Yankee clubhouse the past 4 games.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:56 pm

Jason wrote:I just became the biggest Cardinals/Astros fan today. To say I'm sick to my stomach would be an understatement.

Memo to Torre:

Don't use Tom "The Choker" Gordon in any playoff games again.

Get rid of Javier "Crack under pressure" Vazquez and Paul "Can't get an out" Quantrill.

The Yankees lost this series because of their bullpen - including Mariano Rivera. They should have game 4 or 5. Brian Cashman should be looking for pitching and pitching only this offseason.

The Yanks are up against it now. Either they keep their mediocre pitching next season or they become even more of a joke to baseball by raising their payroll to a ridiculous level in order to sign good pitchers. Boston is not going to raise their payroll anymore, we already spent more than a team should have to win the world series and beat Steinbrenner's huge bank account. So this could be our last chance if Steinbrenner gets crazy with his money and finally figures out how to build a playoff team and baseball doesn't stop him.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:59 pm

As badly as I want the Cardinals to advance, I just don't know if we have the starting pitching to hold those Boston sluggers at bay. There's an outside chance that Chris Carpenter is going to pitch in the World Series. He pitched off the mound the other day and threw 40 pitches. Said he felt great. That would be a huge boost considering Marquis and Morris just don't seem to have that consistency.

As long as Suppan can get through the first couple innings with maybe only allowing one run, we'll have a chance. If Houston goes for 3 or more runs in the first couple innings, it could be lights out for the Cards.