OT: The Debate

TheMightyPuck · Post by **TheMightyPuck** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:29 pm

There will be a couple yellow flags before Bush takes the checkered flag. I don't think much of Bush but I can't see him losing. We are effectively at war and Kerry doesn't present a compelling alternative. The devil you know and all that. Kinda sad for the Dems when you look at Bush--IMHO the most incompetent president of my lifetime and probably the century. Then again when you look at the differences between the big parties on the issues that matter to me it's a wash. When in power the Dems tread on civil liberties as bad as the Reps do and the Reps are just as, or more, fiscally irresponsible.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:34 pm

TheMightyPuck wrote:There will be a couple yellow flags before Bush takes the checkered flag. .

I disagree.
There are two more debates.
Two more chances for the American people to see that Bush cant speak english.
Two more debates for people to see that kerry is a real guy and not a cartoon flip flop machine.

I see Kerry winning.
Im not rooting for either.
I just hope that when kerry is elected he puts the US before France.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:38 pm

Yes, Kerry's momentum will continue to build in the final stages, just like what happens in all of his races. This guy just knows how to win in politics.

Then we can do nothing without putting it through a global test! hahahahaha

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:39 pm

Yes, Kerry's momentum will continue to build in the final stages, just like what happens in all of his races. This guy just knows how to win in politics.

Then we can do nothing without putting it through a global test! hahahahaha

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:15 pm

>>>The integrity of the United States and the laws of the country have not been endangered since the Civil War. That's not up for debate. World War One was no threat to the existence of the United States, nor was World War Two.<<<

Huh? WWII was not a threat to the U.S. mainland?

Just because our mainland nation wasn't attacked during a conflict means that the country wasn't a threat?

Last time I checked the history books, German U-boats were off the coast of the Eastern Seaboard for most of WWII. Japanese U-boats were within shelling range of the Oregon coast. In fact, a Japanese U-boat fired 17 shells on the Oregon coast on June 21, 1942. No damage was caused, but the point was made -- the Japanese and Germans could have attacked our mainland.

If Hitler had conquered England in Operation Sea Lion and the Soviet Union in Barbarossa, and the Japanese won Midway, you think they would have just looked at the U.S. and said: "Yeah, that's all we need. We'll stop now."

No, they would have had the industrial complex to attempt to attack the U.S. because there would have been no bombing of that complex after Sea Lion was repulsed. The Germans probably would have taken shots at major U.S. cities with long-range jets, as the Germans were WAY ahead of the U.S. in the development of jet engines and jet aircraft.

The free world was at stake in WWII. And with the U.S. being the most powerful country in the free world, you bet your ass the U.S. was at risk, especially during the dark days of early 1942, when the Japanese raced across the Pacific and the Germans controlled all of Europe except for the UK.

Jesus H. Christ, the blood of the thousands of American soldiers who died on the beaches of Normandy and Okinawa, etc., sure as hell did ensure that the U.S. mainland wasn't attacked. Because you're nuts if you think the Axis powers would have stopped at Hawaii and England and called it a war.

Hitler and Tojo made no bones about it: World conquest was their goal.

Take care,
PK

TheMightyPuck · Post by **TheMightyPuck** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:59 pm

XXXIV wrote:
TheMightyPuck wrote:There will be a couple yellow flags before Bush takes the checkered flag. .
I disagree.
There are two more debates.
Two more chances for the American people to see that Bush cant speak english.
Two more debates for people to see that kerry is a real guy and not a cartoon flip flop machine.

I see Kerry winning.
Im not rooting for either.
I just hope that when kerry is elected he puts the US before France.

Could be true but people have had 4 years to gauge Bush, I doubt anything short of a complete catastrophe is gonna change much. Then again, I hope I'm wrong. Although I'm not enamored of Kerry, his election would get Ashcroft out of the AG post and that has to be worth something.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:14 pm

>>>Although I'm not enamored of Kerry, his election would get Ashcroft out of the AG post and that has to be worth something.<<<

It's worth everything!

Take care,
PK

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:40 pm

"Two more chances for the American people to see that Bush cant speak english."

Reagan-Mondale, first debate, 1984...if the "American people"( I get so tired of that ) elect Kerry for his proper verbage, I'll kiss your Rams lovin' @$$...

"Two more debates for people to see that kerry is a real guy and not a cartoon flip flop machine."

He told more whoppers the other night than a senior citizen fish story competition. This, also, will not happen. Kerry is an empty suit, filled up with whatever kool aid Carville and Begala come up with for the given day...

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:43 pm

"I just hope that when kerry is elected he puts the US before France."

No chance, and no chance. Place either wherever you'd like on the two scenarios...they're interchangeable!

Aw, hell...screw it...I can't stay outta these things...I give up...

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:44 pm

>>>This, also, will not happen. Kerry is an empty suit, filled up with whatever kool aid Carville and Begala come up with for the given day...<<<

Teal, Teal, Teal:

I know you love your boy GW, but come on, if the guy said "it's hard work" and some of his other catch phrases one more time about the war during the first debate, I would have keeled over.

Bush is prepped and coached as much, if not more, than Kerry. Bush stays on message, no doubt, because I think his handlers would sh*t cinderblocks if he went extemporaneous on them.

Depicting Kerry as a wind-up doll while trying to sell Bush as this organic, off-the-cuff oratorical genius is just daffy. Both are the products of hyper-spin.

Take care,
PK

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:50 pm

"Hitler and Tojo made no bones about it: World conquest was their goal."

Umm...no and no, actually. Germany had interest in one thing- taking over the Soviet Union. They weren't even interested in conquering France (although they were certainly happy to do so when the unexpected chance came up). They went into World War Two having no interest in anything other than Lebensraum and a reckoning with the Jews and Slavs in Russia. They ended up conquering all of Europe more out of a combination of happenstance and necessity than anything else. It wasn't terribly different than what the Soviets did in forming the Warsaw Pact- another action that gets ascribed to "world conquest" but was nothing more or less than a defensive response to the US decision to arm Western Germany. The Warsaw Pact was created simply to give the Russians some buffer zone for what they assumed was the inevitable next German invasion. And Japan never, ever fooled themselves into believing they had any chance to do anything beyond maintaining and solidifying their position as the dominant power in Asia. Their decision to go to war was considered defensive in nature (Pearl Harbor was exactly the sort of preventative measure that this current administration would advocate) as Japan felt compelled to respond to the US threats to cut off their access to oil. Japan's entire military strategy was utterly defensive, centered around creating a fortified perimeter that could bleed the US and Britain and allow Japan to negotiate a peace so they could get back to dealing with China, which was much more their speed.

In any event, neither country ever had anything approaching the necessary resources to launch a transoceanic invasion. Germany couldn't even get across the English Channel.

Germany and Japan's plans for world conquest is the stuff of comic books, not reality.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:10 pm

Umm...no and no, actually. Germany had interest in one thing- taking over the Soviet Union.

Is that you Scott Bakula of Quantam Leap fame? First you were inside the Japanese war room and now you have undiscovered this factoid. I do have a question. Could you ask Ziggy if Seanmac or WCO has ever been wrong and if so were they able to utter the words "I am wrong"

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:25 pm

Sorry, but I did my thesis on Germany's military performance in the Second World War. I'm not wrong on this one.

I do readily confess however to thinking that LaDanian Tomlinson was going to be a bust...

ProvoAnC · Post by **ProvoAnC** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:55 pm

bdoughty wrote:
Is that you Scott Bakula of Quantam Leap fame?

dude that is awesome

and

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:24 pm

ProvoAnC wrote:
bdoughty wrote:
Is that you Scott Bakula of Quantam Leap fame?
dude that is awesome and

Scott Bakula meet Kathy Ireland in Unessecarry Roughness.....

ziggy=

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:32 pm

seanmac31 wrote:Sorry, but I did my thesis on Germany's military performance in the Second World War. I'm not wrong on this one.

I do readily confess however to thinking that LaDanian Tomlinson was going to be a bust...

So in a round-about way you are saying that Ziggys answer is no.

I had no idea that writing a thesis on a subject meant you knew everything, and all quotes are in turn 100% accurate. That's right up there with the guy who wrote a thesis on God and Creation and his source of reference was the bible.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:38 pm

bdoughty wrote:
seanmac31 wrote:Sorry, but I did my thesis on Germany's military performance in the Second World War. I'm not wrong on this one.

I do readily confess however to thinking that LaDanian Tomlinson was going to be a bust...

So in a round-about way you are saying that Ziggys answer is no.

I had no idea that writing a thesis on a subject meant you knew everything, and all quotes are in turn 100% accurate. That's right up there with the guy who wrote a thesis on God and Creation and his source of reference was the bible.

You mean that writing a thesis doesnt equal being the lord and master of that subject?????

Well. ill be God damned!...Ive been mislead

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:43 pm

XXXIV wrote: ziggy=

Ziggy was great but there will never be another

http://www.buck-rogers.com/media/audio/biddi-biddi.wav

and for that matter

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:55 pm

Erin Grey was very underrated.....I loved her small titties and all

blueduke · Post by **blueduke** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:00 am

seanmac31 wrote:Sorry, but I did my thesis on Germany's military performance in the Second World War. I'm not wrong on this one.

I do readily confess however to thinking that LaDanian Tomlinson was going to be a bust...

So if it were Germany who had beaten everyone to the punch to the atom bomb they would have just been satisfied with the USSR? LOL Silly liberal

Did Kerry have a 'cheat sheet'?

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc57.htm

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:13 am

blueduke wrote:
seanmac31 wrote:Sorry, but I did my thesis on Germany's military performance in the Second World War. I'm not wrong on this one.

I do readily confess however to thinking that LaDanian Tomlinson was going to be a bust...
So if it were Germany who had beaten everyone to the punch to the atom bomb they would have just been satisfied with the USSR? LOL Silly liberal

Not only that (the Germans) would have called us to say we overpayed Russia on the Alaska purchase and cut us a check for the difference.

I like playing this game... It's like that Guns & Roses album we never heard.

Use your illusion 3

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:59 am

blueduke wrote:
seanmac31 wrote:Sorry, but I did my thesis on Germany's military performance in the Second World War. I'm not wrong on this one.

I do readily confess however to thinking that LaDanian Tomlinson was going to be a bust...
So if it were Germany who had beaten everyone to the punch to the atom bomb they would have just been satisfied with the USSR? LOL Silly liberal

MY THESIS! MY THESIS! HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY THESIS!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:34 am

Bush must have written his thesis at Yale on Middle Eastern diplomacy. He's never wrong there, right?

I guess I'm an expert at absolutely nothing, since I've never written a thesis. Damn, why didn't my mother ever tell me that writing a thesis makes a man complete?

I feel hollow.

Out,
PK

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:58 am

XXXIV wrote:

Erin Grey was very underrated.....I loved her small titties and all

I was a Princess Ardala man myself, for a couple of good reasons

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:50 am

"I know you love your boy GW, but come on, if the guy said "it's hard work" and some of his other catch phrases one more time about the war during the first debate, I would have keeled over."

PK:
You misunderstand. I know Bush was coached-they all are, ad nauseum. I don't like the debate formats they use now. Way too rehearsed and regurgitated. And lest you forget, Bush pretty much says the same thing over and over all the time. It's the one thing that annoys me the most.

My point is that Bush indeed does say the same thing time and again, while you never quite know where Kerry is going to come from next. I'd be wary of the team around me now, if I were Kerry. You know the whole conspiracy theory that Kerry's doomed b/c Hillary wants to run in 08 isn't helped by having Begala, Carville, Shrum, McAuliffe and that bunch coming in to "save the day". Kerry changes positions (how you can say he doesn't because he's "explained his reasons for this or that" is beyond me, but whatever) all the time. That's the kool aid mentality I was talking about, not whether or not he's been prepped for a debate.

I saw excerpts from Bush's interview with O'Reilly the other night. When he's just being himself, he sounds much more real and convincing. I think they should let him off the leash the next time, and at least see what happens.