OT: The Debate

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:07 pm

Let's get ready to rumble. Kerry is a champion debater has all the debating skills one could need. The key for him will to come off not sounding too academic. He is unlikely to make blunders like Gore and Bush did. Get ready for some sharp sometimes shocking rhetoric.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:09 pm

I get the feeling this is gonna be like two prepared speeches rather than a debate. I hope I'm wrong.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:10 pm

Bush's comments will no doubt be prepared but unfortunately for him Kerry is not about to follow the rules that say you can't directly question each other. Neither of the candidates approved those rules and neither have the networks.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:10 pm

Parker wrote:Kerry is a champion debater has all the debating skills one could need.

That's probably true. He's had plenty of practice arguing both sides of issues.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:22 pm

I don't have high expectations from Kerry. Rather I just don't see Kerry "beating" bush in this debate. The problem is that Kerry is probably to smart for his own good and will problably sound like a Senator instead of President.

Bush's simplicity will only be to his advantage if Kerry plays nice. The only rule that needs to be broken tonight is the questioning of candidate directly. If Kerry opens that can of worms early it could be a long night. Bush as we have seen over the course of four years is extremely good at staying on message but random questions pose problems.

If Kerry wants to be President, he's going to have to break the rules tonight because I don't think Americans will stick around for the other two debates. If Kerry is dull, complex and lets bush dictate this debate its over and there will be four more years of Bush. But if he can somehow start to directly question Bush then we'll probably start to see the begginning of the end of Bush.

Either way this is Kerry's fight tonight. Its his to win or lose.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:24 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
Parker wrote:Kerry is a champion debater has all the debating skills one could need.
That's probably true. He's had plenty of practice arguing both sides of issues.

Classic Leebo

After watching some interview clips from the Daily Show last night where he waffled and babbled for 5 minutes regarding the war, I did not want to even reply.

Parker

We get it Kerry is your guy. He is human and like it or not humans are falable. Yes even liberals.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:02 pm

I hope I didn't miss anything. I just got home.

Wait, it hasn't started yet.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:36 pm

Unless one guy calls the other guy a cocksucker....this will accomplish nothing.
It is a glorified campain comercial.

The Dems will say Kerry won and the Reps will say Bush won...oh yeah and Bush will show once again he cant speak english.

Edit: for equal time...Kerry will flip flop on either last weeks stance or last months stance.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:01 pm

I hate watching George W speak. He's such an f'n buffoon. I absolutely hate the guy.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:04 pm

sigma wrote:I hate watching George W speak. He's such an f'n buffoon. I absolutely hate the guy.

It hurts to hear him speak...He is the butcher of language......

They are both annoying in their own special ways.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:24 pm

Both guys are idiots. It's the best we've got right now...and that is a sad state of affairs in our country.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:28 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Both guys are idiots. It's the best we've got right now...and that is a sad state of affairs in our country.

Maybe Bill Cosby should run for president? I'd vote for him.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:34 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Both guys are idiots. It's the best we've got right now...and that is a sad state of affairs in our country.

cosigned....

Also, I thought that Kerry needed to make Bush look like a bumbling fool by comparison... which didn't happen. The Bush train will roll on...

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:39 pm

I thought Kerry did a very good job laying out a plan for Iraq. That and he was able to successfully rebut all the criticism of his flip-flopping on the issue.

At the risk of sounding partisan, I thought it was a slam dunk for Kerry. Better than I had hoped. Bush, meanwhile, was repeating much of the myopic rhetoric that we've been hearing for months.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:40 pm

Kazuya wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Both guys are idiots. It's the best we've got right now...and that is a sad state of affairs in our country.
cosigned....

Also, I thought that Kerry needed to make Bush look like a bumbling fool by comparison... which didn't happen. The Bush train will roll on...

Bush looked annoyed and confused to me.
Kerry was alot calmer .... He does need to work on that smirk.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:42 pm

My thoughts :

Bush seemed more hotheaded and defensive, especially when they showed him when Kerry was speaking. Sometimes wavering when answering the questions.

Kerry looked more calm and straight to the point. Seemed more at ease with the format of the debate.

Basically it was like The Professor vs The Cowboy.

Just my opinion, obviously others will see it reversed.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:47 pm

Agreed that Kerry seemed more prepared and much more specific in his directions for Iraq. Too many times Bush threw the "flip-flop" statement only to have it successfully refuted by Kerry. TKO by Kerry IMO.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:47 pm

I actually was pleasantly surprised. For the first time during this election, I felt like they talked about serious issues. I don't think either candidate did much to change votes, although Kerry seemed smoother and more relaxed. Then again, he doesn't have a presidency to lose. But Leher asked a lot of good questions that, sadly, the media have really glossed over in the previous months.

Bush was on bad footing in this round because, frankly, Iraq specifically and foreign policy in general are the reason this race is even close. I expect him to look more solid on the domestic issues.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:49 pm

Interestingly, Bush was the one who interrupted on several occasions to trigger the 1 minute extended discussion (well that's their term anyway). I thought Jim Lehrer was supposed to be the one who initiated the extended discussion at his discretion.

Anyway, is anyone else amazed that the topic of September 11th, and the events leading up to it (presidential daily briefing memo etc., report of the 9/11 commission, pet goat moment) wasn't raised as a question by the moderator? That has got to be a major plus for Bush and I really thought that would be one of the major questions that Lehrer should have asked.

Best wishes,

Doug

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:51 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Kazuya wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Both guys are idiots. It's the best we've got right now...and that is a sad state of affairs in our country.
cosigned....

Also, I thought that Kerry needed to make Bush look like a bumbling fool by comparison... which didn't happen. The Bush train will roll on...
Bush looked annoyed and confused to me.
Kerry was alot calmer .... He does need to work on that smirk.

I agree wholeheartedly. But I just don't think Kerry did quite enough. I can't give him credit for making Bush look a little bit like a fool because he gets that for free. Plus, Bush also automatically will give you a few moments where he loses his train of thought...

Having said all that, I do think Kerry did just fine for the most part.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:54 pm

dougb wrote:Interestingly, Bush was the one who interrupted on several occasions to trigger the 1 minute extended discussion (well that's their term anyway). I thought Jim Lehrer was supposed to be the one who initiated the extended discussion at his discretion.

Anyway, is anyone else amazed that the topic of September 11th, and the events leading up to it (presidential daily briefing memo etc., report of the 9/11 commission, pet goat moment) wasn't raised as a question by the moderator? That has got to be a major plus for Bush and I really thought that would be one of the major questions that Lehrer should have asked.

Best wishes,

Doug

I can see why it wasn't. First, if Kerry addresses it, he could look like he's exploiting 9/11 at the expense of the President. If it comes up with Bush, he can talk how 9/11 planning began well before he was president and also claim that his policies have prevented a repeat attack.

On a side note, Bush's body language appeared really awkward to me. He seemed fidgety to me. I'm sure it's hard to stand still up their for 90 minutes, but he just seemed uncomfortable. Also, I really noticed how much better he is at reading his closing comments than he is at speaking on his feet.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:02 pm

Brando70 wrote: Also, I really noticed how much better he is at reading his closing comments than he is at speaking on his feet.

That is actually an improvement.
He usually has a hard time reading.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:18 pm

Kerry won this debate, he seldom loses them. Was a mismatch from the start really. Going by initial polls with undecided, this should give Kerry a good bounce. Bush will need to completely change his approach in the next debate if he doesn't want to be on the defensive the entire time.

cdastros · Post by **cdastros** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:27 pm

Bush said so much about Kerry flip-flopping. Yet Bush flip flopped when he said that he did not want to leave the security of this country in the hands of other people. Then when it came to North Korea he says that it is important to leave the negotiations in the hands of China and other countries.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:41 pm

Neither had memorable lines that will be remembered in the future. And nothing like Gore sighing loudly and frequently.

But Bush look visually and audibly irritated and defensive at times. At one point, right after Kerry finished up an answer, he said "that's absurd." Surely he was coached not to appear to lose his cool?

Someone said he was looking at notes and they weren't suppose to have them?

He kept saying "my opponent," which may be a political consultant's idea. But it sounded repetitive.

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