A-Rod Juiced In '03 - Story At SI.com

[wco81]

I'm thinking more of players in the '50s and '60s like Mantle, Frank Howard.

[10spro]

The part that mystifies me is how can an anonymous test bust so many players but the testing program that MLB uses does not catch anywhere near the same number. Anyone?

[sportdan30]

Why was A-Roid the only one named on the list?

How long before we know the rest of the 103 names?

[johnvon314]

The part that mystifies me is how can an anonymous test bust so many players but the testing program that MLB uses does not catch anywhere near the same number. Anyone?

Also while much attention has been focused on Bonds, McGwire, and ARod, remember that many of those who were caught with the official testing were borderline major leaguers. I also wonder how many more in that category are slipping through.

John

[pk500]

I'm thinking more of players in the '50s and '60s like Mantle, Frank Howard.

The Mick and The Babe didn't use HGH, but both juiced heavily with PBR and ABP.

PBR=Pabst Blue Ribbon
ABP=Anheuser-Busch products



Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Why was A-Roid the only one named on the list?

How long before we know the rest of the 103 names?

Curt Schilling suggested over the weekend in his blog that it would be best for baseball if all 103 names were released. He said it would provide some closure and keep a black cloud from covering all 700-plus Major Leaguers.

Thoughts?

Take care,
PK

[10spro]

Why was A-Roid the only one named on the list?

How long before we know the rest of the 103 names?

You may be disappointed Dan. But would you be shocked if A. Pujols is named in a not too distant future?

[webdanzer]

He said it would provide some closure and keep a black cloud from covering all 700-plus Major Leaguers.

Thoughts?

Take care,
PK

Nah, the black cloud is going to be there no matter what. There's no way that the assumption can or will be made that those guys not on the list are automatically clean, especially since it is also coming out that Gene Orza was warning players that the drug test was coming. Other players smarter than A-Rod may have had their Whizzinators hooked up in time...

Since that is the case, you may as well at least try to honor the promise of confidentialty that was made.

[Naples39]

He said it would provide some closure and keep a black cloud from covering all 700-plus Major Leaguers.

Thoughts?

Take care,
PK

Nah, the black cloud is going to be there no matter what. There's no way that the assumption can or will be made that those guys not on the list are automatically clean, especially since it is also coming out that Gene Orza was warning players that the drug test was coming. Other players smarter than A-Rod may have had their Whizzinators hooked up in time...

Since that is the case, you may as well at least try to honor the promise of confidentialty that was made.

I agree. The 2003 testing cycle was far from perfect, and if I recall it didn't even test for many of the drugs that were thought to be in heavy use at the time.

The best thing you can do now is strictly test and see how each individual player's numbers match up to pre-testing seasons. Hardly a perfect measure, but the proof will be in the pudding.

[Metman24]

I believe Barry Bonds was already mentioned as having tested positive from this testing. So, I guess there's only 102 more names to hear.

[sportdan30]

Why was A-Roid the only one named on the list?

How long before we know the rest of the 103 names?

You may be disappointed Dan. But would you be shocked if A. Pujols is named in a not too distant future?

No, I wouldn't be surprised. After Palmeiro vehemently pointed his finger at congress and said he didn't use steroids, at that point I realize these players will lie and say anything.

So, while it would be disappointing to hear Pujols used performance enhancing drugs, I wouldn't be shocked. I'm more numb to all of this now.

However, what I think is more disturbing is the recent ESPN poll. It asks, As a baseball fan, how do you feel about allegations of steroid use by Alex Rodriguez?

37 percent voted very disturbed

28 percent voted mildly disturbed

35 percent voted not at all disturbed

Personally, I think it should be a resounding 100 percent for very disturbed, but obviously people really don't care about this issue as much as we think they do. Or, they're just tired of hearing about it.

[Zlax45]

Goodell to his credit has done one helluva job enforcing the rules. I don't recall the sheer amount of players getting suspended under Tags. No doubt players will think twice before getting caught. Not to say there aren't cheaters in the NFL. There's just more scrutiny, risk, punishment and enforcement in the NFL as opposed to baseball.

Football has the most doping out of any of the sports. The players are all taken HGH and noone calls out the NFL for not doing Blood testing for HGH. Remember there is no URINE test for HGH but there really is a BLOOD test and noone wants to take blood. Why not?

I'm not disputing that they are taking HGH, but how exactly can you say they have the most without any statistical evidence?

The other problem is that detection for HGH requires a blood test, and unlike the Olympics, the NFL has to get the player's union to agree to such a test. I would like the league to test for that, but if you tried to force any workers to take a mandatory blood test, in any industry, you'd have a huge legal fight on your hands.

Yea, since the Olympics do blood testing. I guess they don't follow any rules.

The only way these NFL guys are getting caught is when the dealer gets the federal government on their butt. Do you forget that Rodney Harrison got suspended for HGH use with Shawn Merriman? They just tracked down Harrison's CC number.

[fletcher21]

I personally have better things to worry about than if someone who makes more money in one game than most of us make in a year are taking roids or not. The players coming up pretty much HAD to use roids, or they would get passed up for spots on rosters by guys who used their steroids to gain the upper hand. Baseball is a business now. It hasn't been a game since the Pete Rose days.

[pk500]

Baseball is a business now. It hasn't been a game since the Pete Rose days.

Professional sport always has been a business. It's just today the amount of money at play is much larger, and the marketing tools more effective and universal, so that makes sport appear much more of a business.

The No. 1 goal for any professional sports team always has been profitability. Don't let the proclamations of "A title is most important to us and our fans" fool you. A title puts a red team into the black or expands the coffers of a team already in the black. Period.

Sure, the Rooneys are proud of adding a sixth Super Bowl title to their football legacy in Pittsburgh. But they're equally or more excited by the big chunks of revenue they'll receive from the sales of Super Bowl Champions licensed memorabilia and apparel.

Take care,
PK

[greggsand]

edit

[greggsand]

However, what I think is more disturbing is the recent ESPN poll. It asks, As a baseball fan, how do you feel about allegations of steroid use by Alex Rodriguez?

37 percent voted very disturbed

28 percent voted mildly disturbed

35 percent voted not at all disturbed

Personally, I think it should be a resounding 100 percent for very disturbed, but obviously people really don't care about this issue as much as we think they do. Or, they're just tired of hearing about it.

Hardly anyone cares about this. If the majority cared, baseball would have taken a financial hit after the mitchell report was released. Instead, business is booming baby!

[Brando70]

Yea, since the Olympics do blood testing. I guess they don't follow any rules.

The only way these NFL guys are getting caught is when the dealer gets the federal government on their butt. Do you forget that Rodney Harrison got suspended for HGH use with Shawn Merriman? They just tracked down Harrison's CC number.

But the NFL can't just impose a new, mandatory blood test without union cooperation, and the NFLPA already said no. The only way they are going to budge on that is if something like the Congressional investigation were to happen, or more incidents like the Harrison one or the case with the Carolina players get the fans riled up. Right now, most NFL fans don't really care that much.

The issue is a legal one. If the league were to impose a blood test and the NFLPA agreed to it, you can bet the first players to test positive will probably go to court. Those tests have to be able to stand up to scrutiny, and aren't the HGH tests rather new?

Not saying I don't agree to the testing, but it's not an easy thing for the NFL to implement.

[Brando70]

Yes, where players get paid under the table and have the academic rules bent and not broken in their favor.

The thing is, there is cheating in every sport. I'm disappointed about how widespread steroid use was in baseball and that it affected the HR records. But I don't watch sports for the records, I watch sports for entertainment. I think all the leagues should do their best to present clean games. However, in any excessively competitive environment, you're going to have some players looking to get an advantage any way they can. I'm not going to abandon sports I like because of that.

At this point, the MLB needs to adopt the NFL's stance and at least look tough on steroids. I am sure there is still plenty of that stuff in football, but Goodell at least makes an effort to keep the league clean and punish players for actions that are bad for the sport.

I'm talking about players who take PED's, not taking bribes to play for a certain team.. that's another discussion.

So, should we just let them all take illegal drugs? I mean if Hank Aaron hit all of those HR's without PED's, doesn't that matter to you that Bonds broke his record with illegal drugs?

I mean, every time you turn the TV on, it's another baseball drug related story. Fck Bug Selig, he needs to go.

Sure, I'm not happy that Dickface Melonhead holds the season and career HR records. I wish he had been caught before he broke them.

However, I don't see what the MLB can do. They practically greenlighted these guys taking performance enhancers. Now they're going to retroactively punish them? How would they figure out who gets the record? Take the single season record. If they wipe out Bonds, then it goes to McGwire. But if he's dirty, it goes to Sosa, who while suspected of steroid use, has never been caught. But should his numbers be thrown out because of that suspicion?

The MLB would literally have to wipe out a decade or so of batting stats to fumigate the league. I think that's too much trouble just to put Maris and Aaron back in the books. The MLB made their bed. Let them lie in it and deal with the taint on the records.

As for the comment about college recruiting, the point is that there are plenty of things to taint sports. College sports have gotten so ridiculous that "student athlete" is a punchline. These pampered little shits are an insult to everyone like me who had to balance full courseloads with working and going into debt to get a college degree. That bothers me much more than whether A-Rod used a Balco-provided d*****.

At the same time, I watch college basketball. I've always liked it. And I'm not going to let some of the cheaters ruin the sport for me. I support efforts to clean it up, I believe the people who break the rules should be punished, but I'm not going to cut it out of my viewing because it's got some problems. I feel the same way about other sports.

[tjung0831]

Jack Clark was the last real baseball player as far as i'm concerned. When the Cardinals let him go, I lost interest and then new ownership has completely ruined the game here locally for me. As for MLB, they can stick it. I've got MLS that I can watch during the summer, plus the NHL goes all the way until june. I've basically got one month...July...where it sucks for me as a sports fan. Once August rolls around that at least brings some preseason football and then the NHL training camps start in September.
My dad was a pretty good ballplayer back in the day and I have 3 relatives that played pro ball and one of them, Don Mueller has a 1954 World Series ring so baseball was pretty big in my family while I was growing up in the 70's. For whatever reason, it's the one major sport that continues to regress to me. I understand that people change and maybe thats what happened with my love of baseball...it just up and vanished. It didn't come back when the Cardinals won in 2006 so i'm pretty sure it's never coming back. I see baseball as just a bunch of cheaters that ruined america's past time and I see a front office that let it happen.

[wco81]

I've seen pics of Jack Clark when he first came up with the Giants.

And pics of him later in his career.

Hell even Ozzie was bigger as a Cardinal than as a Padre.

[XXXIV]

Some people do get bigger as they mature and some naturaly with age.

I have a mirror...and many before during and after pics.

Just not the same way Bonds and Sosa did with a much bigger hat size.

[sportdan30]

So, look who has manned up?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847

[sportdan30]

As he admitted, he used steroids for three years as a Texas Ranger. So, throw out those three year numbers, Bud! And that should be an automatic no vote in to the Hall of Fame.

[Brando70]

So, look who has manned up?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847

The irony is, if he had done that from the get go, he would have gotten much less flak. We hate liars even more than cheaters.

[pk500]

So, look who has manned up?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847

A classic case of CYA, a guy trying to restore his reputation and keep even the slightest sliver of endorsement possibilities while he still has many years of playing time left.

While an initial liar, A-Rod finally showed more stones than Bonds, Clemens and McGwire. The common thread among those three is that their respective careers were near the end or over when their steroid use was exposed, so they didn't feel the financial need to be honest.

A-Rod is no dummy. He understands the power of forgiveness among the American people and the power of PR.

None of these still-active juicers give a f*ck about the integrity of the game or the sanctity of its statistics-based history. They just care about getting paid.

Take care,
PK