sportdan30 wrote:I got to ask. Do those of you who love the NFL think that sport is clean? IMO, it's as dirty or more so than baseball. Why does it get a free pass?
We went from shortstops and second basemen hitting 10 to 15 taters per year suddenly to those positions hitting 30 or 40 dingers per year. The drugs made a mockery of the game.
Take care,
PK
Eh, yes & no. Shortstops hit more HR's these days for a number of reasons, but part is the culture of the position these days. Being a "great fielder" is about third on the list these days to earn a SS starting position. If you have a good arm, great bat, and cover some ground, High School coach will try and work u in at shortstop. People have argued that dudes like A-Rod were never really SS to begin with, but guys simply 'shoe-horned' into the position by creative coaches. Every position has been tainted by roids for me, but it doesn't really diminish my enjoyment on watching the Cardinals.
The thing is, most people don't really care about roids (look at MLB's $$$ numbers). If a roids scandal broke out in Football, it would have zero impact on attendance or TV #'s (again, just like baseball).
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pk500 wrote:
Baseball's most hallowed offensive stat -- home runs -- was assaulted and reshaped by a corps of players who used steroids. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Canseco, A-Rod, Giambi, etc. I don't think the NFL passing or rushing records were threatened and toppled by a group of guys on the juice.
NFL RBs are monsters. There are more 2000 yard rushing seasons or even 1500 yard rushing seasons than there was say 20 years ago.
Certainly backs are bigger and stronger these days but so is every other position player.
And there were allegations of Brady juicing. Never say never, just like people a few years ago were eager to jump on Bonds but held up ARod or Clemens as legit.
wco81 wrote:NFL RBs are monsters. There are more 2000 yard rushing seasons or even 1500 yard rushing seasons than there was say 20 years ago.
Stats show that's not true. There have been six backs in NFL history to rush for 1,900 or more yards in a season:
Dickerson 2,105 (1984)
Lewis 2,066 (2003)
Sanders 2,053 (1997)
Davis 2,008 (1998)
Simpson 2,003 (1973)
Campbell 1,934 (1980)
Three of those top six seasons occurred 24 years ago or more; three have occurred in the last 11 years.
No one has rushed for 2,000 yards in an NFL season in the last five seasons.
Take care,
PK
Shhh...dont ruin our trip into the Twilight Zone...
1)The J in OJ does stand for juice. Cant deny this is fact even in 1973!
2)Earl Campbell's 1980 thighs were obviously created by HGH. I know it didnt exist yet but Im sure you have seen Back To The Future.
3)Eric Dickerson acted like such an idiot it had to be steroids affecting his brain. He was the father of TO and there is no bigger piece of crap in sports than Owens.
4)Lewis had to be doped...No one runs for 500 yds against the Browns in one season.
5)Davis?...All the Broncos backs were running on meds. How else do you explain that all of TDs successors ran for mega yards.
6)Barry Sanders...If anything says steroid monster its Barry.
Again like everyone knows...We really dont care about football records or stats like we do about the ones in baseball. ITS NOT EVEN close.
Thats why we didnt care or will never care that Barry Sanders is steroid history's biggest monster.
Last edited by XXXIV on Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
XXXIV wrote:
2)Earl Campbell's 1980 thighs were obviously created by HGH. I know it didnt exist yet but Im sure you have seen Back To The Future.
Maybe not HGH, but NFL players from that era have admitted to using performance enhancing drugs. I'm not naive enough to think that the tremendous size and speed difference in NFL players from the 1970's to now is simply a result of training improvements and diets of skinless chicken. There are some mediocre NFL players playing today that are bigger than Anthony Munoz and faster than some Hall-of-Fame WRs. Sure, the increased money drives the incentive to work out year round, but it also creates incentive and a market for cheating.
Regarding, NFL 1,500 yard rushers there was a large increase in the number that coincides with MLB's juiceball. From 2002-2006 there were 25 1,500 plus backs and that was the same total from the previous 15 years. If you go back another 15 (not counting strike shortened years) and adjust for the 14 game schedule there were only 23. So in the 30 years prior to 2002 you had 48 1,500 yard backs and in 2002-2006 you had 25. That's not to say that it was due to cheating, but it's just to say there are just as many or more statistical oddities in the NFL as there are in baseball.
But as many have already said, we just don't care in football. We like to see the 270 pound LBs with monster biceps that run back 100 yard TDs. We love those 1,500 yard rushers that bolster our fantasy football chances and return to action soon after taking tremendous beatings. And we love those QBs with questionable arm strength coming out of college that suddenly develop laser arms and post Madden-like numbers.
Leebo33 wrote:
But as many have already said, we just don't care in football. We like to see the 270 pound LBs with monster biceps that run back 100 yard TDs. We love those 1,500 yard rushers that bolster our fantasy football chances and return to action soon after taking tremendous beatings. And we love those QBs with questionable arm strength coming out of college that suddenly develop laser arms and post Madden-like numbers.
fletcher21 wrote:This is another reason I prefer motor sports over baseball. No cheating(that you get away with) in racing
I hope you're joking, man. The oldest maxim in racing: "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'."
Take care,
PK
I guess I should have added a wink face lol.. Yes, I know racers cheat, but not to the extent of using roids.. Either you have the skills to drive a car like that, or you don't. There's no drugs you can take to get a huge leg up on your opponents. Athletes these days are forced to use roids to compete, and that's sad.
wco81 wrote:
Because they don't use performance-enhancing drugs in other sports?
Oh I'm sure they do... and it's not only that.. I'm just tired of baseball as a whole. The drugs, over paid players, prices, the detachment from the city that most players have... it's just not what it used to be when I was a kid.
wco81 wrote:Race drivers wouldn't take speed or other amphetamines to help with the long grueling races would they?
If you ever get a chance to watch a Formula 1 race weekend you'll see all the drivers sipping on Red Bull or any other energy drink they can find before practice, qualifying and before the race.
Didn't anyone else see the Outside the Lines special on espn last week about the 1963 Charges and steroids? If they were doing it in football back then, who's to say it wasn't also happening in baseball (and other sports) back then?
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Baseball players have been using spitballs, popping greenies (speed), stealing signs, etc., for probably as long as the game has been played. Back in the old days, some things just were not talked about. Now that more information is out in the open due to the constantly probing mass media, it doesn't make these current athletes any more or less subject to scorn. Just my opinion.
GTHobbes wrote:
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Baseball players have been using spitballs, popping greenies (speed), stealing signs, etc., for probably as long as the game has been played. Back in the old days, some things just were not talked about. Now that more information is out in the open due to the constantly probing mass media, it doesn't make these current athletes any more or less subject to scorn. Just my opinion.
Yeah...I go back and forth with that too.
Just seems that it always comes down to the records in baseball as to why its a big deal.
pk500 wrote:
Bottom line: I like sports with constant motion and action, so baseball probably wouldn't captivate me much anyways. But when you add in the legacy of juicers over the last 15 years, the game has completely lost me.
Take care,
PK
Well we always have the Tour De France...
Cycling is one sport that polices itself very well. Get caught doping you are out of racing with no paycheck for 2 years. Even if you evade drug testers to avoid submitting a sample you are in for a year or two suspension. Plus there in-competition and out-of-competition testing year round. Is there still doping in the sport? Yes, but it's a lot better situation than in most sports. Plus there's a long list of banned substances down to cold and asthma medications. The major US sports leagues policies are complete jokes.
fletcher21 wrote:This is another reason I prefer motor sports over baseball. No cheating(that you get away with) in racing
I hope you're joking, man. The oldest maxim in racing: "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'."
Take care,
PK
I guess I should have added a wink face lol.. Yes, I know racers cheat, but not to the extent of using roids.. Either you have the skills to drive a car like that, or you don't. There's no drugs you can take to get a huge leg up on your opponents. Athletes these days are forced to use roids to compete, and that's sad.
Sure there are cheats in racing that are equal to 'roids in stick-and-ball sports. Underweight cars, oversized cylinders, nitrous oxide, movable aerodynamic devices, electronic manipulation to simulate traction control when it's banned, etc., etc. Those all can lift an average racer to the level of the elite.
Yes, you still need to know how to drive. But it's not like Bonds, A-Rod, McGwire and Palmeiro would be failed beer league softball players if not for 'roids. They still have skills few of us can imagine. But the drugs elevated them from great to immortal.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
wco81 wrote:Race drivers wouldn't take speed or other amphetamines to help with the long grueling races would they?
No.
F1 races last around 1 hour, 45 minutes. MotoGP races last 45 minutes. IndyCar races last anywhere from two to 3.5 hours. NASCAR races last around three hours.
All of those series except for MotoGP have caution periods and pit stops where drivers can take a mental and physical break from the intense concentration required.
In endurance racing, there are teams of two or three drivers. Teams in 24-hour races have at least three drivers, with most guys taking shifts of two hours or so before surrendering the wheel and getting a few hours of shut-eye.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
