OT: Election/Politics thread, Part 6

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:19 pm

I don't think I've ever posted in this thread before and I doubt I will again. I dislike discussing politics with anyone, including my wife and my family. While I am a registered Republican because it's what my father told me to do when I was 18, I am not party affiliated.

My wife and her family are hard core Democrats, My parents hard core Republicans. There is no straying from the party line for any of them. The reason I don't discuss issues with them or anyone else is 95% of the people I encounter are just like them.

Having said that I felt the need to post in this thread today because I have hope for the future and not just for the future of America. The world is in a bad place right now, this country is hurting in ways I haven't seen in my life time. I have no illusions that things are going to instantly get better nor do I know if our new president will be able to change things.

What I do have is a warm feeling inside to see that this country could elect an African American president.

I have joy when I look at my children and know that even at 4 and 5 they understand that the swearing in of a new president is a special event, but also have no idea why it is significant. They know nothing and hold no pre-conceived notions of race, religion or color and I hope that by the time their my age they never will.

I have optimism that this event, whether you view it as big or small, has the chance to cause a ripple effect, not on the country but on people. That many can remember how they feel today and that even things they think impossible can happen.

Finally I have hope that my children will live in a better world, one without prejudice, without hate, without evil and while I am not naive enough to think one man or one event is capable of such change. I do have hope because the smallest change in any equation can lead to unexpected results.

I'm sorry if this comes off as cheesy, it's just how I feel today and I needed to put it into words.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:21 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote: I realize that...Jared put it about as good as anyone can. There could be two implications. You thought one, I thought the other. That's all there is to it. Not sure why BD thinks he's the ruler of all apologies, but whatever. Jared had a nice ignore feature on for him in the past year or so. That must have broken. Damn.

No, neither Jared or The Gamer put in context where there could be two implications. Both are insinuating that Kool Aid was a choice beverage for poor black kids, just promoting a silly stereotype. As if all white kids had their own personal fountains that spewed out Hi-C and Hawaiian Punch. I was raised middle class and drank the stuff all the time, as did my middle class white and black friends. We even bought the little packets, added sugar and had us a nice little snack.

You are going to go out swinging no matter how many people show you that you are incorrect. I would expect no less from you DB. Flail away.

Post by **Jared** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:25 pm

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kool-aid

1. Kool-aid

the water of the ghettos

the universal drink of the hood.

The universal drink of the ghetto.
comes in many flavors such as grape, cherry, blueberry etc, but known to the ghetto natives as red, purple etc.

The most effective way to disband a cult.

Propaganda brewed for mass consumption.

What black people love to drink and/or eat with sugar.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:28 pm

bdoughty wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote: I realize that...Jared put it about as good as anyone can. There could be two implications. You thought one, I thought the other. That's all there is to it. Not sure why BD thinks he's the ruler of all apologies, but whatever. Jared had a nice ignore feature on for him in the past year or so. That must have broken. Damn.
No, neither Jared or The Gamer put in context where there could be two implications. Both are insinuating that Kool Aid was a choice beverage for poor black kids, just promoting a silly stereotype.

Which is exactly what I said before Jared or Gamer even chimed in (stereotype). So, what exactly is the problem here?

dbdynsty25 wrote:Simply racial stereotypes. That's all.

and then

dbdynsty25 wrote:I just think it's odd how you get the first black pres and you end up using the Kool-Aide man instead of him in an avatar. Being that Kool-Aide is joked about being a 'african american' drink by comedians such as Dave Chappel and Chris Rock, both african american...it would seem to me that a white guy shouldn't be using it as his avatar.

Oh yeah, and since you obviously can't read...I already conceded.

dbdynsty25 wrote:Obviously you guys don't agree with me...so whatever. It just caught my eye and seemed like it could be deemed offensive. I've been wrong before.

You done now?

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:28 pm

Urban Dictionary? Really Jared?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool-Aid

Oh and been there done that

http://wedonotconsent.blogspot.com/2008 ... l-aid.html

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:30 pm

Danimal wrote:
I'm sorry if this comes off as cheesy, it's just how I feel today and I needed to put it into words.

I don't think those sentiments are at all cheesy, and I think they're widely held today.

One of the intersting divisions in this country is between those who have felt this way all along and those who feel that this election was necessary to validate such sentiments though.

In the end, both camps have reason to be content today. And that's pretty damn cool.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:32 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
You done now?

Only if we get to hug it out.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:33 pm

bdoughty wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:You done now?
Only if we get to hug it out.

If you give me a reacharound...we can call it a day.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:38 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
bdoughty wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:You done now?
Only if we get to hug it out.
If you give me a reacharound...we can call it a day.

You could never stay mad at me.

Post by **Jared** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:38 pm

Maybe I misunderstood you BD. But it's clear that there are two implications of Kool-Aid, and that was just more evidence for the latter. (And looking back at my post, I clearly said that there were two implications, the Urban Dictionary one and the "cult leader" one.)

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:42 pm

bdoughty wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:
bdoughty wrote: Only if we get to hug it out.
If you give me a reacharound...we can call it a day.
You could never stay mad at me.

You're right. Especially when your "hug it out" statement is admitting defeat.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:44 pm

Danimal wrote:I don't think I've ever posted in this thread before and I doubt I will again. I dislike discussing politics with anyone, including my wife and my family. While I am a registered Republican because it's what my father told me to do when I was 18, I am not party affiliated.

My wife and her family are hard core Democrats, My parents hard core Republicans. There is no straying from the party line for any of them. The reason I don't discuss issues with them or anyone else is 95% of the people I encounter are just like them.

Having said that I felt the need to post in this thread today because I have hope for the future and not just for the future of America. The world is in a bad place right now, this country is hurting in ways I haven't seen in my life time. I have no illusions that things are going to instantly get better nor do I know if our new president will be able to change things.

What I do have is a warm feeling inside to see that this country could elect an African American president.

I have joy when I look at my children and know that even at 4 and 5 they understand that the swearing in of a new president is a special event, but also have no idea why it is significant. They know nothing and hold no pre-conceived notions of race, religion or color and I hope that by the time their my age they never will.

I have optimism that this event, whether you view it as big or small, has the chance to cause a ripple effect, not on the country but on people. That many can remember how they feel today and that even things they think impossible can happen.

Finally I have hope that my children will live in a better world, one without prejudice, without hate, without evil and while I am not naive enough to think one man or one event is capable of such change. I do have hope because the smallest change in any equation can lead to unexpected results.

I'm sorry if this comes off as cheesy, it's just how I feel today and I needed to put it into words.

I don't know where this quote or phrase comes from but it holds true maybe only for this country.

Every so often, America chooses to reinvent itself. I don't think I have that exactly right, but as I listen to some of the non-US broadcasts, that's all they said. America has chosen to reinvent itself.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:50 pm

Good post, Dan.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:56 pm

Jared wrote:Maybe I misunderstood you BD. But it's clear that there are two implications of Kool-Aid, and that was just more evidence for the latter. (And looking back at my post, I clearly said that there were two implications, the Urban Dictionary one and the "cult leader" one.)

I think it was pretty obvious what Teal was trying to convey with his image. Of course never doubt the sensitivity level of any audience. His point was "drinking the kool aid" which is most commonly referred to by what happened at Jonestown. Just like that google search showed.

You can make all the implications that you wish. Heck I could make the implication that your implication could be an implication that Teal was making a racist comment by using that image. Of course that would be silly but the point stands on implications, one can imply anything that want but does not make it fact. If Teal was trying to insinuate something that was racist, me thinks he could have done better than the Kool Aid man.

Just look at all the words that are considered slurs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_slur

ZOMG, I am the racist. Oh wait it is just a picture of a delicious apple. Or is it?

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:16 pm

bdoughty wrote: ZOMG, I am the racist. Oh wait it is just a picture of a delicious apple. Or is it?

Just imagine the reaction if you had posted a picture of a saltine cracker.....

Post by **Jared** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:17 pm

bdoughty wrote:I think it was pretty obvious what Teal was trying to convey with his image. Of course never doubt the sensitivity level of any audience. His point was "drinking the kool aid" which is most commonly referred to by what happened at Jonestown. Just like that google search showed.

You can make all the implications that you wish.

Please pay attention to what I have posted, and criticize what I have posted. I know what Teal was trying to convey. This is exactly what I originally said:

I think the Kool-Aid man, unfortunately, has a dual meaning ("drinking the Kool-Aid", as in Obama is a cult leader; and Kool-Aid as a stereotypical African-American food/drink (see grape soda, watermelon, fried chicken, etc.)).

I'm pretty sure that Teal wasn't aware of the latter meaning. However, I'm some people that use it this way are well aware of the dual meaning.

I'm not making any implications, nor have I made any implications, that Teal intended to be racist. I'm just pointing out (for those that doubted, or were unaware) that Kool-Aid has an African-American stereotypical meaning, along with the cult-leader meaning. I'm sure he was unaware of it, and now he (and others) are. That's all.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:31 pm

Seriously, I never knew Kool-Aide drinker had a racists connotation. I always thought it referred to Jim Jones the wack job.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:39 pm

Rodster wrote:Seriously, I never knew Kool-Aide drinker had a racists connotation. I always thought it referred to Jim Jones the wack job.

But the point was that there are people who think that. Obviously. Plus, it's not like his avatar was someone drinking Kool-Aide...it's the freakin' Kool-Aide man.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:45 pm

Nice post Dan. That's exactly how I feel too on all aspects. What a great day. I can't wait to get home and hug my daughter after all that has transpired. This is the America I've wanted to live in my whole life. The fact that my daughter doesn't know the magnitude of what transpired today is all I could have ever asked for and reaffirms all I've taught her in her life.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:46 pm

Bah, I just saw his avatar and to me it just refers to an Obama lemming.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:01 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote: it's the freakin' Kool-Aide man.

Oh yea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjacMS7Siqw

Fortunately it is in video with sound, so people can fully understand that it is simply a joke at the "oh yea" catch phrase. I can only imagine what some might conjure up if there was no sound.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:16 pm

Jared wrote: I'm not making any implications, nor have I made any implications, that Teal intended to be racist. I'm just pointing out (for those that doubted, or were unaware) that Kool-Aid has an African-American stereotypical meaning, along with the cult-leader meaning. I'm sure he was unaware of it, and now he (and others) are. That's all.

You see a dual meaning. I see one that most people relate to when seeing the kool aid man, as it was represented in Teals image and the other a stereotype that most people do not associate with the kool-aid man to begin with.

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:03 pm

JackDog wrote:
TheGamer wrote:
pk500 wrote: Same here. Educate me. DB.

Take care,
PK
I'll try. Kool Aid is a cheap drink that I know at least my family drank because we couldn't afford anything more expensive. Probably a lot of people on welfare drink kool aid. The avatar, using the slogan of the campaign of the first black president could probably provoke the same responses as a caricature if someone sitting on a porch eating watermelon.
Damn man,you got Kool Aid growing up? Not us. We were stuck with Flavor Aid or Wyler's. It was cheaper than Kool Aid.

PS. to Rob. Flavor Aid was the drink of choice for the idiots in Jonestown.

Man. My family was so poor growing up that we drank water. Kool Aid and Tang and all that other fancy stuff was for rich folk.

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:12 pm

bdoughty wrote:Urban Dictionary? Really Jared?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool-Aid

Oh and been there done that

http://wedonotconsent.blogspot.com/2008 ... l-aid.html

They should change the name back to Fruit Smack.

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:42 pm

Grown men arguing over an avatar? LOL this is classic.. where is Siam to give his "world cup" style play by play