Bball 2009 : NBA Live 09 or NBA 2k9?

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Afrodamus
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Post by Afrodamus »

Brando70 wrote:
Afrodamus wrote:
Brando70 wrote:I played a few games of Live against my cousins and, while enjoyable, it's still very arcade-like. I don't think it's even as good as 2k8 was in terms of resembling realistic basketball. It's very offense-oriented. We had a lot of fun with it but I couldn't see myself enjoying the one-player experience for very long.

BTW, Best Buy has 2k9 for 37.99 for the PS3.
You must be playing against morons or playing the game like a moron because the one area this game excels in is the halfcourt game and how it very closely replicates what individual players do.
First of all, you know what they say when you assume anything....

I have played every NBA 2k game, and I have had my issues with the series at times, but I disagree that it has been tired. Madden has been tired, 2k has refined what it already did well. It is to pro hoops what The Show is to pro baseball.

You can tell almost immediately that Live is still an arcade title at its heart. It's a good game, and EA should be commended for turning the series around. However, I don't think its as realistic as 2k. In particular, I found the defensive side to be lacking. I also missed the shot stick. I admittedly just played a few games, but having played a lot of 2k, I didn't see anything here that made me want to switch. Just my opinion.

1. If LIVE is so arcade please explain exactly what you mean by that...Please give a couple of examples...because Arcade play is in the eye of the boholder of the joystick...meaning any game can look arcade if the person playing it acts like an idiot. How does LIve equate arcade???...examples please?

2. 2K is a dunkfest so does that mean its an arcade game???...IMO no because the people who decide that they are going to ISOMOTION their way to the hole and dunk everytime downcourt are using an exploit...AS for the shot stick...that has no bearing on arcade or sim play at all.

3. I think its safe to say that your preference is 2k...and thats fine but to not have even played LIVE long enough to accurately compare the two games is careless when you are attempting to draw a comparison between the two games and tell someone which game they should get. If you prefer 2k then just highlight what you like about it w/o trying to call LIVE arcade-ish when that could not be further from the truth...and if you would have played LIVE extensively you would know that arcade is not something to say about the game.

Please don't put 2k in the same sentence as The Show...Thats a very bad comparison...2K is a decent game but the reality is 2K has done NOTHING to move their NBA series forward...They have simply prettied up the graphics (That aint that pretty) and continued with their same gameplay engine...For many 2K faithful thats more than enough but I'm a gamer who wants to feel and see innovation and improvement...2K IMO fails on both of those concepts. In fact 2k9 has taken a huge step backwards in the ONLINE department...Also here we are 4-5 years into a new cycle of consoles and 2K has yet to commit to any meaningful gameplay physics...Players sliding and Skating...and not not in their NHL game but in their NBA game which is a cryin shame.

At the end of the day its all what each consumer can put up with because I'm not gonna sit here and say LIVE is better than 2K no more than you should say 2K is better than LIVE...I've played them both extensively and they both have good and bad points. I think the most telling thing is that Live has made such huge strides this year that you can now safely discuss it in the same sentence and compare it to 2K. Or is it just that 2K isn't innovating or upping the ante...I dunno...you decide.

The original poster asked which one...Now if you have a preference its cool to say that but to make a blanket statement that one is better than the other is ignorant and fanboyish...I would personally recommend someone playing both...The only thing I would put an absolute on is ONLINE PLAY...If you want to play online...Don't even think about 2k cause its online is GARBAGE.
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Post by bdoughty »

Wow, quite the emotional attachment we have to our game, Mr. Afro.

I can tell you one area where Live (or in my case NCAA 09, since I play that over live) is extremely arcadeish, aka... lacks of realism. Ball physics. It is getting better but there is still a far cry from that other game. Half of the shots look like a Russian Shotputter is taking a jumper. They did fix some of the extreme eyesores, like tip-offs, warping straight down.

I have not played a ton of NCAA09 so far but what happened to bounce passes? Outside the occasional bounce pass to the post, I do not recall seeing them.
Now if you have a preference its cool to say that but to make a blanket statement that one is better than the other is ignorant and fanboyish...
Ahh... The namecalling begins. Some might read your replies and find that last part, the one I bolded for you, a heaping plate full of irony served in hypocrisy sauce.
You must be playing against morons or playing the game like a moron
Yeesh, I forgot about that humdinger.
Last edited by bdoughty on Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by dbdynsty25 »

LOL. Afro is apparently an EA employee.

Live is OK...it's better than it used to be. That's good enough because now 2k will be pushed to make a better game. Live is still like 3 years away from cleaning it up. My biggest beef with it...why the hell are the players so small? The court is gigantic. Must be an EA thing since the NHL series is the same way.
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Post by Rodster »

dbdynsty25 wrote:LOL. Afro is apparently an EA employee.

Live is OK...it's better than it used to be. That's good enough because now 2k will be pushed to make a better game. Live is still like 3 years away from cleaning it up. My biggest beef with it...why the hell are the players so small? The court is gigantic. Must be an EA thing since the NHL series is the same way.
Yeah it sounds like it LOL. :P

Anyways I like Live this year have had some fun with it but still think it's got a ways to go before overtaking NBA2K. 2K really needs a nice graphical face lift.
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Post by Afrodamus »

bdoughty wrote:Wow, quite the emotional attachment we have to our game, Mr. Afro.

I can tell you one area where Live (or in my case NCAA 09, since I play that over live) is extremely arcadeish, aka... lacks of realism. Ball physics. It is getting better but there is still a far cry from that other game. Half of the shots look like a Russian Shotputter is taking a jumper. They did fix some of the extreme eyesores, like tip-offs, warping straight down.

I have not played a ton of NCAA09 so far but what happened to bounce passes? Outside the occasional bounce pass to the post, I do not recall seeing them.
Now if you have a preference its cool to say that but to make a blanket statement that one is better than the other is ignorant and fanboyish...
Ahh... The namecalling begins. Some might read your replies and find that last part, the one I bolded for you, a heaping plate full of irony served in hypocrisy sauce.
You must be playing against morons or playing the game like a moron
Yeesh, I forgot about that humdinger.
There is no attachment other than being tired of people offering opinion based on what would appear to be fanboyism as opposed to an opinion that was formed by truly playing and enjoying both games...I've played and enjoyed both...2K is not terrible at all but its become stale for me...Not much has changed with 2k other than a very minor facelift that still IMO does not qualify the graphics or gameplay as a true next gen game (now current gen). I would almost venture to say that 2K9 could have looked and played the same on the original Xbox. 2K has yet to step their game up and truly deliver any game that takes advantage of the 360 or Ps3. The last time 2K did anything special was NFL2K5.

I would agreee that ball physics could be better on LIVE...They aren't bad...They just aren't as good as ball physics on 2k...But in all honesty ball physics has nothing to do with core gameplay elements such as court spacing, footplanting and players reacting based on physics and doing the things that they are currently doing right now in the NBA (i.e. DNA).

You say ball physics are arcadey???..OK...point well taken...Well I'd simply say players sliding and skating all over the floor in 2k is EQUALLY as arcadey... So whats more arcadey poor ball physics or poor player physics??? BTW...bounce passes are in LIVE...They are contextual so they happen based on the situation and the most appropriate pass that should be delivered. If you actually played the game you might already know that.

This is worse than the Ps3 v 360 debates...As an owner of both consoles I prefer the 360 because of online and the fact that most sports games are being made with the 360 as the LEAD console...but the Ps3 is very cool and I don't have too much to say about it that's negative. Its all about preference
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Post by bdoughty »

Afrodamus wrote: BTW...bounce passes are in LIVE...They are contextual so they happen based on the situation and the most appropriate pass that should be delivered. If you actually played the game you might already know that.
If you actually read my post you might already know that... I was not referring to NBA Live. I only have NCAA Basketball 09 and the most Live got out of me was downloading the demo and deleting the game shortly thereafter.

Afrodamus wrote: There is no attachment other than being tired of people offering opinion based on what would appear to be fanboyism as opposed to an opinion that was formed by truly playing and enjoying both games...I've played and enjoyed both...
How exactly does one TRULY play a game? Is there a certain amount of games you need to play? Do you have to tweak the sliders for more minutes than actual gameplay? Do you have to enjoy both games, to make a non-fanboy based opinion? Does a person have to be a hardcore sim player or can anyone make an opinion and have it TRULY matter, assuming they TRULY played the game? Lastly, what exactly constitutes classifying someone a fanboy?

You reply has TRULY left me with more questions than answers.
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Post by Brando70 »

Afrodamus wrote:There is no attachment other than being tired of people offering opinion based on what would appear to be fanboyism as opposed to an opinion that was formed by truly playing and enjoying both games.
Lighten up, Francis.

First of all, I'm not claiming to be a Ph.D. in Live studies the way you are, Professor EA. I said upfront I played a few games over the holidays with my family. My cousin brought his 360 with him, he had Live, I played a few games, and I thought it was fun but not terribly realistic. Like I said, playing defense was very awkward, and I also thought the AI did an uneven job of covering their guys. Having played a good deal of 2k8 last year, I could tell right away that I still would prefer to stick with the 2k series. If you disagree, that's fine, but you're acting like I took a dump in your oatmeal.

I'm hardly a 2k fanboy. I haven't even purchased an NBA game yet because I was busy playing other games. I finally felt the urge to pick up a hoops game and figured I'd check out my cousin's copy of Live since I heard good things about it. I thought it was fun and a great improvement, but I also thought it was not as good out of the box as 2k8 was last year. So I'll be picking up 2k9.

I'm not going to do a geometric proof for you to justify what I clearly labeled as a quick opinion. If you want to nail your 96 Live Theses to the 2k door, be my guest. It is helpful when people take the time to offer their detailed opinions on games. However, my days of professional game reviewing are long behind me, and I have no interest in writing 2,000 words on why I still prefer 2k.
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Post by Afrodamus »

bdoughty wrote: How exactly does one TRULY play a game? Is there a certain amount of games you need to play? Do you have to tweak the sliders for more minutes than actual gameplay? Do you have to enjoy both games, to make a non-fanboy based opinion? Does a person have to be a hardcore sim player or can anyone make an opinion and have it TRULY matter, assuming they TRULY played the game? Lastly, what exactly constitutes classifying someone a fanboy?

You reply has TRULY left me with more questions than answers.
Truly playing the game is putting in enough time on the game where you become familiar with its features, how it plays on online/offline. Lets just say its more time than the rental of the game or playing a few games with one's cousin over the holidays. A more appropriate example is how many times have we not liked something from the outset then after time and a bit more exploration started to see the value in something???

I see too many people make these blanket statements that are so GENERIC and often flat out incorrect that its clear that they may have put the game in for 20 minutes and decided it wasn't just like 2k so it automatically sucks. Look at most of the comments in regard to people critiquing LIVE or any other 2 games that are being pit against each other...You'll see an array of Generic, non-specific vanilla comments...Why is this???...because most people making those comments don't know jack about the game other than what some goofball gaming site writer on IGN or some other lame site said. They have not broken the game down in a manner to find what is truly good and/or not good about the game...They read IGN or Gamespot and if they see the reviews that substantiate what they already wanted to hear...They regurgitate the articles in threads like this...Hopefully these same folks are not as gullible in real life.

The fanboyism is what is derived out of the ill informed comments someone would make about any game when the fact is they have not thoroughly played the game...They make their decision based on their comfort zone and what they happen to like...not the facts. Thats fanboyism to me.

Ask me about the two games and my honest answer would be #1 go play each one and decide what aspects of each game appeals to you...Ask me which one is better?...That takes some specificity because there are areas in each game where one does something better than the other. Most posters can't even get to that level of critique and/or criticism because they don't have the data...They can only give the opinion of the Consumate FanBoy.

Hopefully that answered all your questions :roll:
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Post by Afrodamus »

bdoughty wrote:
The biggest issue with the Live/NCAA engine is that on defense you have only so much control of your players. The AI wants to correct you and put you in position. They really need to go back to the "hold trigger down to get in defensive stance and play defense yourself." Defense just feels dumbed down, compared to March Madness 08.

Also they really need to add more camera angles. Pretty paltry compared to the 2K series.
Bdoughty,

THis is a perfect example of the type of comment that teeters on that fanboy line...First of all you have already admitted you have not really played the game outside of the downloaded demo...But in this thread you make what can now safely be called "ill informed" comments...Why are they ill informed???...because you have not really played the game...I mean I'm not even gonna break the content down because almost everything in this statement you made is incorrect regarding D...Even the comparison to the 2k camera angles...Live maybe has more than 2k...so you couldn't even get that right.

The response you should of had was simple...and it should have gone a lil sumthin like this:

"I have only really played 2K and its a really good game"

The question I have for you and the masses like you is...How can you TRULY have an opinion on a game that you never TRULY gave a chance or TRULY played???

I mean does having thousands of posts on a forum automatically qualify someone as an authority on something?...If so I better get da posting :lol:
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Post by Afrodamus »

dbdynsty25 wrote:LOL. Afro is apparently an EA employee.

Live is OK...it's better than it used to be. That's good enough because now 2k will be pushed to make a better game. Live is still like 3 years away from cleaning it up. My biggest beef with it...why the hell are the players so small? The court is gigantic. Must be an EA thing since the NHL series is the same way.
you would think that with you having over 13 THOUSAND posts you could come up with something more meaningful than that Incredibly ORIGINAL knee Slapper...lol

Now really...do you think a lowly EA employee would be on this forum defending anything???...Don't flatter yourself buster...I'm an average every day dude just like you...Happy Holidays 8O
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Post by dbdynsty25 »

Afrodamus wrote:Now really...do you think a lowly EA employee would be on this forum defending anything???...Don't flatter yourself buster...I'm an average every day dude just like you...Happy Holidays 8O
Guess you've never visited OS...since they have EA guys there all the time defending their games. So it's certainly possible. And post count does not equal comedic range/genius as you've easily proven. We can be lame and boring with 13 thousand and with under 50. And Buster? Really? Are you 85 years old?

It's obvious you have issues...there's a reason people are ALREADY going after you. I mean, it took me a good 5,000 posts to piss people off...ok, 1,000. You accomplished that feat in record time. Keep it up. It's gonna be fun.
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Post by Afrodamus »

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Afrodamus wrote:Now really...do you think a lowly EA employee would be on this forum defending anything???...Don't flatter yourself buster...I'm an average every day dude just like you...Happy Holidays 8O
Guess you've never visited OS...since they have EA guys there all the time defending their games. So it's certainly possible. And post count does not equal comedic range/genius as you've easily proven. We can be lame and boring with 13 thousand and with under 50. And Buster? Really? Are you 85 years old?

It's obvious you have issues...there's a reason people are ALREADY going after you. I mean, it took me a good 5,000 posts to piss people off...ok, 1,000. You accomplished that feat in record time. Keep it up. It's gonna be fun.
Not I said THIS FORUM...I didn't say OS...cause I know Dev's are there as am I...But they aint here my friend...I was referring specifically to this forum and not referencing all forums. Big difference playa. Is that better...Should I now bust out my Urban speak?

Apparently over 13 thousand posts causes you to defend all the credibility the other 12,999 posts has brought you...Good work. Now are we gonna get totally off track or should we just let this go...I'm in for letting it go
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Post by dbdynsty25 »

And when exactly was I defending the other 13 thousand? All that proves is that I have way too much time on my hands. And, I never let it go...you brought it on yourself patna (I'll try to be ghetto like you). This thread has run it's course and obviously YOU are in the minority. There's a difference between battling to the death and beating a dead horse. You are firmly entrenched in the latter category.
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Post by bdoughty »

Afrodamus wrote: Bdoughty,

THis is a perfect example of the type of comment that teeters on that fanboy line...First of all you have already admitted you have not really played the game outside of the downloaded demo...But in this thread you make what can now safely be called "ill informed" comments...Why are they ill informed???...because you have not really played the game...I mean I'm not even gonna break the content down because almost everything in this statement you made is incorrect regarding D...Even the comparison to the 2k camera angles...Live maybe has more than 2k...so you couldn't even get that right.

The response you should of had was simple...and it should have gone a lil sumthin like this:

"I have only really played 2K and its a really good game"

The question I have for you and the masses like you is...How can you TRULY have an opinion on a game that you never TRULY gave a chance or TRULY played???

I mean does having thousands of posts on a forum automatically qualify someone as an authority on something?...If so I better get da posting :lol:

My gamertag is BDOSG... Upon researching that you will find that I own one basketball game, NCAA Basketball 09. I have not even played NBA2K9 outside, you guessed it, the demo.

As for the cameras, I based it on NCAA 09 vs CH2K8. Games that I actually owned. CH2K8 had a ton of different angles, compared to March Madness 08 and NCAA 09.

You TRULY need to get someone to pull that burr out of you bum, they are just video games. Life will go on no matter which on Javi ends up playing.


Ghetto/Urban Translation


My gamertag iz BDOSG... Upon researching dat ya will find dat I own one hoops game, NCAA Basketball 09. I gots not even played NBA2K9 outside, ya guessed it, da demo.

As fo' da cameras, I based it on NCAA 09 vs CH2K8. Games dat I actually owned. CH2K8 had uh ton o' different angles, compared ta March Madness 08 an' NCAA 09.

You TRULY need ta git someone ta pull dat burr out o' ya bum, dey iz just video games. Life will jet on nahh matter which on Javi ends up playing. otay buh-weet
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Post by pigpen81 »

DB and BD against a DSP newcomer.....come on guys...take it easy.

It is nice to have a fresh opinion here.

Afro...don't be to upset...remember, BD is a Sooner fan...and DB is from Westlake. That explains everything :)
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Post by dbdynsty25 »

I can thankfully say that I'm NOT from Westlake. Thousand Oaks baby! Just happened to be on the Westlake side of Moorpark Rd, thus, they made me go to Westlake High. LOL.

And he started it. :wink:
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Post by bdoughty »

pigpen81 wrote:DB and BD against a DSP newcomer.....come on guys...take it easy.

It is nice to have a fresh opinion here.

Afro...don't be to upset...remember, BD is a Sooner fan...and DB is from Westlake. That explains everything :)
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He is not new and even if he was that is no excuse for.

* Namecalliing
* Excessive use of the term fanboy
and a bad case of Jroditis, making assumptions and not reading and/or comprehending others replies.
,
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Post by DivotMaker »

pigpen81 wrote:DB and BD against a DSP newcomer.....come on guys...take it easy.
Sorry, but afro brought it on himself with his post calling Brando a moron. It has gone downhill ever since and it does not seem like afro is grasping the fact that others don't agree with his Live takes and it is not cool to have differing opinions about a videogame.....
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Post by Gangrel »

Yes, I've been perusing the thread and I have to say I can see where the venom is coming from. It's one thing to say "how can you form a solid opinon after playing 2 games" then "well, you must play like a moron or play with others who are morons".

There's a few other beauties throughout this thread.

Opinons are like assholes, everyone's got one. However, I don't think there is a max or a minimun amount of time you need to "do something" in order to have one.

If I stick my hand on a burner and declare it hot, must I keep it there for 10 seconds to have an accurate opinon?

I admire all the passion, it just gets lost in the venom.
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Post by pigpen81 »

LOL...I didn't read the thread closely enough to see the venom.

My bad.

BTW Javi, I think you are better off with College Hoops 2K8 and NBA 2K8 as companions.
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Post by Afrodamus »

bdoughty wrote:
pigpen81 wrote:DB and BD against a DSP newcomer.....come on guys...take it easy.

It is nice to have a fresh opinion here.

Afro...don't be to upset...remember, BD is a Sooner fan...and DB is from Westlake. That explains everything :)
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He is not new and even if he was that is no excuse for.

* Namecalliing
* Excessive use of the term fanboy
and a bad case of Jroditis, making assumptions and not reading and/or comprehending others replies.
,

Good observation...I'm not new...I just choose not to post often...I also don't take any of this stuff personal as I would hope none of you have...I was not trying to call any specific person a moron...It was simply one of those "If the shoe fits" comments...So if someone took that literally and personally...My bad...If your not a fanboy then you shouldn't even be concerned that any statements are directed at you
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Post by Afrodamus »

pigpen81 wrote:LOL...I didn't read the thread closely enough to see the venom.

My bad.

BTW Javi, I think you are better off with College Hoops 2K8 and NBA 2K8 as companions.
No worries..I wasn't trying to be venomous but I can see how a reader may take it that way
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Post by Afrodamus »

Gangrel wrote:Yes, I've been perusing the thread and I have to say I can see where the venom is coming from. It's one thing to say "how can you form a solid opinon after playing 2 games" then "well, you must play like a moron or play with others who are morons".

There's a few other beauties throughout this thread.

Opinons are like assholes, everyone's got one. However, I don't think there is a max or a minimun amount of time you need to "do something" in order to have one.

If I stick my hand on a burner and declare it hot, must I keep it there for 10 seconds to have an accurate opinon?

I admire all the passion, it just gets lost in the venom.
That's a terrible analogy my friend...There is a difference between an opinion rooted in FACTUAL basis as opposed to an opinion that has NO FACTUAL basis whatsoever.

1. A hot red stove is hot...No matter what. If this same stove is TRULY hot then if you put 100 people in front of the stove and ask them to place their hand on it they all would likely have the same reaction and opinion.

2 You cannot apply that same logic to an opinion on a videogame or any other entity that does not have factual roots. Why? Because there is no factual foundation on whether the game is good, bad etc. Its all ONLY opinion...My opinion is no more valid or incorrect than yours.

We can all act as if the phenomena of people presenting opinions that are ill informed doesn't exist but the truth is...Its alive and well on all forums. I wouldn't even begin to comment on whether I thought Star Wars Knights of the Republic was a good game if I only downloaded a demo or played it for 25 minutes with my buddy...Even if I thought the game sucked I would recognize that my opinion would not carry enough weight for me to try and tell someone why they should value my ill informed opinion. My point is...Just because you have an opinion that doesn't mean its valid or relevant and its OK to keep it to yourself. That's why I have under 50 posts in over 24 months.
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Post by bdoughty »

Afrodamus wrote: My point is...Just because you have an opinion that doesn't mean its valid or relevant and its OK to keep it to yourself.
And with that I present... Cars sliding down an Icy Hill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXFZMGddENA
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Post by dbdynsty25 »

bdoughty wrote:
Afrodamus wrote: My point is...Just because you have an opinion that doesn't mean its valid or relevant and its OK to keep it to yourself.
And with that I present... Cars sliding down an Icy Hill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXFZMGddENA
Fortunately...that clip is far funnier than this thread. :lol:
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