OT: Election/Politics thread, Part 6

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:05 pm

I'm sure my boss would understand.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:11 pm

bdoughty wrote:Just a reminder that tomorrow is...

http://www.daywithoutagay.org/

Merry Christmas brother!!!!!!!

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:13 pm

Rob..........Care to comment?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:21 pm

RobVarak wrote: http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2008 ... stody.html

.

My favorite part is where he tries to find out if he can stop the money from going to the hospital.

That Harvey Dent dude looks serious.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:25 pm

XXXIV wrote:
RobVarak wrote: http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2008 ... stody.html

.

My favorite part is where he tries to find out if he can stop the money from going to the hospital.

Wow!

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:26 pm

JackDog wrote:Rob..........Care to comment?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

I'm inclined to believe Obama. Judging from the complaint, it looks like his campaign contacted Blago about Valerie Jarret getting the seat. But it also looks like their refusal to play ball is what sent Blagojevich into one of his rants.

Also, Obama and his people know that the Feds were all over the governor's office. They wouldn't be as stupid as Rod himself.

Now how all this can take place despite Barack the Reformer's efforts at cleaning up Illinois I do not know.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:27 pm

JackDog wrote:

Merry Christmas brother!!!!!!!

Merry Christmas back at you JD and I will even throw in a Happy New Years to boot.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:34 pm

RobVarak wrote:Now how all this can take place despite Barack the Reformer's efforts at cleaning up Illinois I do not know.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:12 pm

Great pic, bd.

The Sun-Times handles the matter with the dignity that has been their hallmark for decades.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:23 pm

bdoughty wrote:
JackDog wrote:

Merry Christmas brother!!!!!!!
Merry Christmas back at you JD and I will even throw in a Happy New Years to boot.

Thanks!! Stick around!!!!

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:07 pm

I've only had a chance to read the electronic complaint and I don't consider anything of substance "read" until I have read a hard copy. So far this seems to be the only portion directly related to President-Elect Obama or his advisors. Nothing untoward it seems.

"Senate Candidate 1" is widely believed to be Valerie Jarett. Incidentally, if this is what kept her out of the US Senate then Fitzgerald has already done the people of this state a great service.

On November 7, 2008, ROD BLAGOJEVICH discussed the open Senate seat in a three-way call with JOHN HARRIS and Advisor B, a Washington D.C.-based consultant. ROD BLAGOJEVICH indicated in the call that if he was appointed as Secretary of Health and Human Services by the President-elect, then ROD BLAGOJEVICH would appoint Senate Candidate 1 to the open Senate seat. HARRIS stated "we wanted our ask to be reasonable and rather than . . . make it look like some sort of selfish grab for a quid pro quo." ROD BLAGOJEVICH stated that he needs to consider his family and that he is "financially" hurting. HARRIS said that they are considering what will help the "financial security" of the Blagojevich family and what will keep ROD BLAGOJEVICH "politically viable." ROD BLAGOJEVICH stated, "I want to make money."

During the call, ROD BLAGOJEVICH, HARRIS, and Advisor B discussed the prospect of working a three-way deal for the open Senate seat. HARRIS noted that ROD BLAGOJEVICH is interested in taking a high-paying position with an organization called "Change to Win," which is connected to Service Employees International Union ("SEIU"). HARRIS suggested that SEIU Official make ROD BLAGOJEVICH the head of Change to Win and, in exchange, the President-elect could help Change to Win with its legislative agenda on a national level. Advisor B asked why SEIU Official cannot just give the job to ROD BLAGOJEVICH. HARRIS responded that it would be just a big "give away" for SEIU Official and Change to Win since there are already individuals on the Change to Win payroll doing the functions of the position that would be created for ROD BLAGOJEVICH. HARRIS said that Change to Win will want to trade the job for ROD BLAGOJEVICH for something from the President-elect. HARRIS suggested a "three-way deal," and explained that a three-way deal like the one discussed would give the President-elect a "buffer so there is no obvious quid pro quo for [Senate Candidate 1]."

ROD BLAGOJEVICH stated that for him to give up the governorship for the Change to Win position, the Change to Win position must pay a lot more than he is getting paid right now. Advisor B said that he liked the idea of the three-way deal. ROD BLAGOJEVICH stated that he is interested in making $250,000 to $300,000 and being on some organization boards. Advisor B said they should leverage the President-elect's desire to have Senate Candidate 1 appointed to the Senate seat in order to get a head position with Change to Win and a salary. Advisor B agreed that the three-way deal would be a better plan than ROD BLAGOJEVICH appointing Senate Candidate 2 to the Senate seat and getting more done as Governor.

Edit: One more touch of class from Blagojevich:

ROD BLAGOJEVICH said that the consultants (Advisor B and another consultant are believed to be on the call at that time) are telling him that he has to “suck it up” for two years and do nothing and give this “motherf*****[the President-elect] his senator. F*** him. For nothing? F*** him.” ROD BLAGOJEVICH states that he will put [Senate Candidate 4]” in the Senate “before I just give f***ing [Senate Candidate 1] a f***ing Senate seat and I don’t get anything.”

Let's hope this ends the experiment of giving high office to people of Serbian descent.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:55 pm

The wussification of our children continues... Move over jumping rope, without the rope.

The letter "H" -held- to replace the letter "F"
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6395403&page=1

and if that article did not make you cringe. Go Go Australian government to save kids from red ink.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/lifestyle ... 1Q20081209

Teachers using red pen to mark students' work could be harming their psyche as the color is too aggressive, according to education strategies drafted by an Australian state government.

offers strategies such as "don't mark in red pen (which can be seen as aggressive) - use a different color."

Other tips include structuring time for peer tutoring every day, apologizing to students when necessaryand asking students to conduct a "personal skills audit" where they focus on their individual strengths rather than their weaknesses.

TheHiddenTrack · Post by **TheHiddenTrack** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:00 pm

I love this guy:
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qsi2jeGLXfU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

"I would remind them it kind of smells like Nixon and watergate."

Yes, it does. And you are Nixon. It's almost like he decided to confess a day early.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:19 pm

JackDog wrote: Thanks!! Stick around!!!!

Well you know me.

Hey, I ran across something that you might get a kick out of.

http://www.blackbirdhome.com/index.html

Why Download the Blackbird Browser

Because we know the 20 million African Americans online need tools to build and foster community now more than ever.

Because we know that 85% of African Americans prefer online news and information from the Black perspective.*

Because we know that you are twice as likely to be among the first to discover new trends and use advanced technology compared to the general population.*

* CONNECT to African American Internet News, TV, Sports, websites, and all that's most popular in your community
* EMPOWER your Internet to find what you want when you want it
* ENTERTAIN yourself with entertainment content from the African American community

BLACKBIRD FEATURES

* Black Search
* Black News Ticker
* Black Bookmarks
* Blackbird TV
* Social Bookmarking
* Email Manager
* Social Network Manager

The Blackbird Browser gives you access to Internet sites just like Internet Explorer, plus more community-specific features when you want them. For example, Black Search moves important information from African American sites higher in your search results. Try the Blackbird Browser and see how we are customizing the web experience just for you.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:21 am

Thanks for the early Christmas present bd!!!!!!

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:03 am

Just to show the idiocy of the media can be bi-partisan, here's the led from the AP story "Scandal Threatens to Dog Obama":

WASHINGTON – President-elect Barack Obama hasn't even stepped into office and already a scandal is threatening to dog him.

Obama isn't accused of anything. But the fact that Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, a fellow Democrat, has been charged with trying to sell Obama's now-vacant Senate post gives political opponents an opening to try to link him to the scandal. A slew of questions remain. The investigation is still under way. And the ultimate impact on Obama is far from certain.

He pointedly distanced himself from the case Tuesday, saying, "I had no contact with the governor or his office, and so I was not aware of what was happening" concerning any possible dealing about Blagojevich's appointment of a successor.

In Chicago, U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald said prosecutors were making no allegations that Obama was aware of any scheming. And Blagojevich himself, in taped conversations cited by prosecutors, suggested that Obama wouldn't be helpful to him. Even if the governor was to appoint a candidate favored by the Obama team, Blagojevich said, "they're not willing to give me anything except appreciation."

Republicans pounced nonetheless.

Now, I can't blame the Republicans for pouncing, especially since they don't have much else to do right now. But this lead is so full of nothing, it could be a show starring Jerry Seinfeld.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:26 am

bdoughty wrote:The wussification of our children continues... Move over jumping rope, without the rope.

The letter "H" -held- to replace the letter "F"
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6395403&page=1

and if that article did not make you cringe. Go Go Australian government to save kids from red ink.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/lifestyle ... 1Q20081209

Teachers using red pen to mark students' work could be harming their psyche as the color is too aggressive, according to education strategies drafted by an Australian state government.

offers strategies such as "don't mark in red pen (which can be seen as aggressive) - use a different color."

Other tips include structuring time for peer tutoring every day, apologizing to students when necessaryand asking students to conduct a "personal skills audit" where they focus on their individual strengths rather than their weaknesses.

Heh, one of my old high school English teachers would be out of a job if these rules had applied to her.

One December I wrote one of my english essays in green pen, and turned it in with a 'Merry Christmas' written at the end of it. The teacher was a bit of a jerk, and so my comment was slightly smart-assy, but it was a pretty honest statement.

I get the paper back in a couple of days wiith this note in red:

'Essays must be written in blue or black ink.
F
Happy New Year!'

I was both pissed and impressed.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:46 am

Brando,

As I said yesterday, I think it unlikely that the stink will reflect directly onto Obama.

But it does point out the pure windbaggery of rhetoric like this:

"When I arrived in Springfield a decade ago as a state Senator, people said it was too hard to take on the issue of money in politics, but I found folks on both sides of the aisle who were willing to listen, and we were finally able to pass the first major ethics reform in twenty-five years," Obama said... This isn't just the rhetoric of a campaign for me, this has been the cause of my life."

Background on Obama's ground-breaking reform efforts that weren't always popular with politicians. Ethics reforms championed by Obama 'revolutionized' the Illinois system

Apparently the politics that it "revolutionized" just weren't in Springfield...or Chicago. But I'm sure that the rest of Illinois is thoroughly revolutionized.

Even if he were tainted by the scandal, there's just no way that it would stick. He's transcended Illinois politics and the Accepted Narrative has him springing whole from the head of Abraham Lincoln to save the nation in its time of crisis from CEO greed, Bush ignorance and the pollution of free market capitalism.

I'm sure that the "revolution" he brings to D.C. will be as profound and effective as the one that he hatched in Illinois.

Post by **Jared** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:02 pm

RobVarak wrote: But it does point out the pure windbaggery of rhetoric like this:

***

Background on Obama's ground-breaking reform efforts that weren't always popular with politicians. Ethics reforms championed by Obama 'revolutionized' the Illinois system
Apparently the politics that it "revolutionized" just weren't in Springfield...or Chicago. But I'm sure that the rest of Illinois is thoroughly revolutionized.

Even if he were tainted by the scandal, there's just no way that it would stick.

Wait. Where does "revolutionize" mean "turn every politician into a perfectly ethical person who does nothing wrong"? The law referenced in that quote did open information regarding expenditures, contributions, and added other ethical reforms, banned most gifts from lobbyists, prohibited spending campaign money for legislatures, etc. These are very important changes, and independent groups said it revolutionized both political reporting and ethics reform in the state. Of course, politicians will still try to be corrupt...but Obama did create legislation that makes it a lot harder to do so.

(Although it's clear that this will be a strategy coming from Republicans during Obama's presidency. If Obama makes substantive changes, but doesn't immediately turn water into wine, there will be lots of complaints that he's failing because he didn't turn water into wine. Even after eight years of a President who couldn't turn water into ice.)

And then the second half of the statement. So Obama is above board in the Blagojevich situation. Brando posts an AP article with no substance that says scandal threatens to dog Obama, even when the only evidence re: the scandal shows he wasn't going to be involved. And yet you can confidently say that, if Obama were tainted by scandal, that it wouldn't stick? I'm sure if there was evidence of an Obama staffer doing under-the-table negotiations with the governor, it would be a HUGE story.

Post by **Jared** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:15 pm

And actually, the headline in a NYT article:

Obama’s Effort on Ethics Bill Had Role in Governor’s Fall

In a sequence of events that neatly captures the contradictions of Barack Obama’s rise through Illinois politics, a phone call he made three months ago to urge passage of a state ethics bill indirectly contributed to the downfall of a fellow Democrat he twice supported, Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich.

Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil Jones Jr., president of the Illinois Senate. Mr. Jones was a critic of the legislation, which sought to curb the influence of money in politics, as was Mr. Blagojevich, who had vetoed it. But after the call from Mr. Obama, the Senate overrode the veto, prompting the governor to press state contractors for campaign contributions before the law’s restrictions could take effect on Jan. 1, prosecutors say.

Tipped off to Mr. Blagojevich’s efforts, federal agents obtained wiretaps for his phones and eventually overheard what they say was scheming by the governor to profit from his appointment of a successor to the United States Senate seat being vacated by President-elect Obama.

So Obama pushing recent ethics reform in Illinois leads to the governor attempting to get around the reforms, get wiretapped for it, and get caught for trying to sell the Senate seat. Rob, I expect your thank you letters to Obama any time now for helping get rid of Blagojevich.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:18 pm

Jared wrote:(Although it's clear that this will be a strategy coming from Republicans during Obama's presidency. If Obama makes substantive changes, but doesn't immediately turn water into wine, there will be lots of complaints that he's failing because he didn't turn water into wine. Even after eight years of a President who couldn't turn water into ice.)

The man set some pretty high expectations. Many people are expecting just that. Water into wine.

None but the party blind will not be dissapointed if things dont start to change after a couple of years.

As for my governor...Blago is as Bblago does. Hes just a loon.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:28 pm

Jared,

That's a joke, right? The NY Times story, I mean. It wasn't the content of the ethics bill that resulted in Blagojevich's downfall, but rather his own characteristically corrupt pre-emptive reaction to it. But hey, why not find some way to make it seem like Obama's actions were directly responsible for busting his pal. Giving Obama credit in this case is like saying that he's to blame for gun violence perpetrated by someone who buys a gun in a pre-inauguration rush to beat the perception of coming regulation.

This state is every bit as dirty as the day Obama entered and the day Obama left the state Senate. He revolutionized nothing. His claims to the contrary are bull$hit.

As for your first post, I can only say yes. The national press doesn't want Obama dirtied. They'll pursue the story, but as the NY Times story you posted indicates, they'll find some way to spin things so that Obama was the voice of virtue.

They could have tape of Axelrod sending Valerie Jarrett to Blago's office with a check around her neck and Obama would fire up a smoke, fire Axelrod and feign ignorance...and watch the press lap it up. Fox News would foam at the mouth but there would be an avalanche of editorials about how Obama couldn't have known what every one of his aids are doing etc.

It may sound preposterous, but is it any more stunning than watching the press file its nails while Chris Dodd flips the American public the bird about his Countrywide scam or Barney Frank summons the hypocrisy of an age to tell us how to get out of a housing crisis?

Post by **Jared** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:49 pm

RobVarak wrote:Jared,

That's a joke, right? The NY Times story, I mean. It wasn't the content of the ethics bill that resulted in Blagojevich's downfall, but rather his own characteristically corrupt pre-emptive reaction to it. But hey, why not find some way to make it seem like Obama's actions were directly responsible for busting his pal. Giving Obama credit in this case is like saying that he's to blame for gun violence perpetrated by someone who buys a gun in a pre-inauguration rush to beat the perception of coming regulation.

The article said that Obama was <b>indirectly</b> responsible in the very first paragraph, so I don't know how you can claim that the NYT was painting Obama as directly responsible. And if Obama didn't lean on Jones to get the ethics bill passed, then there wouldn't have been a stupid overreaction by Blagojevich, and this wouldn't have happened. There's a definite relationship between the two. Indirect, but without it, there likely wouldn't have been the wiretap. (And the fact that the governor was acting to get contributions now instead of after the law provides direct evidence that the law would have an effect on ethical behavior in campaign contributions, no?)

As for your first post, I can only say yes. The national press doesn't want Obama dirtied. They'll pursue the story, but as the NY Times story you posted indicates, they'll find some way to spin things so that Obama was the voice of virtue.

From what we know, Obama wouldn't play games with the governor. Obama leaning on Jones re: passing ethics reform led indirectly to the governor's indictment. The AP, even with this information, writes an article about how this scandal could dog Obama. And yet, this can all be taken as evidence that the nat'l press (of which the AP is part of) doesn't want Obama dirtied? And that, although the evidence clearly shows that Obama was ethical, that the press will spin things that way?

Anyways, Obama has been completely above board, the actions of Blagojevich show that Obama's efforts re: ethics reform had teeth, and these efforts indirectly led to Blagojevich's downfall. And so the moral of the story is....Obama has done little/nothing for ethics reform, and the press is in the tank for Obama. That doesn't make any sense.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:57 pm

Now everyone get your shocked face on.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/ConductUn ... 739&page=1

Sources Say Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. Is 'Senate Candidate No. 5'

Chicago Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., D-Ill., is the anonymous "Senate Candidate No. 5" whose emissaries Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich reportedly offered up to $1 million to name him to the U.S. Senate, federal law enforcement sources tell ABC News.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:12 pm

FWIW, I don't take issue with the criticism of the AP story or headline. The AP has been thrashing around in the throes of dying for awhile now, so crap like this is almost expected.

To some extent thought it's a chicken and egg situation where as long as the press wants to ask him questions about the scandal it will technically be "dogging" him whether there's any substance to it or not.