OT: Election/Politics thread, Part 6

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:18 pm

The opening of shotgun deer season last Saturday, Nov. 15, might as well be a state holiday ... here in upstate New York, a long way from the Mason-Dixon Line.

I'm one of the few guys I know not out in the field that day. One of these days I'll go out with my pals and check it out.

One more thing to consider when Bambi doesn't get culled by hunting: Lyme Disease will increase in humans due to the proliferation of deer ticks that carry the malady, which isn't fun. My brother-in-law got Lyme from a deer tick, and he was very sick for nearly four months.

So, if we want to save Bambi and watch humans get sick with a debilitating disease, then something is very wrong.

There's a good story in this week's SI about the negative ramifications of the decline of hunting as a sport.

Take care,
PK

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:54 pm

JackB1 wrote: The problem I have is with hunting for "sport". Killing another animal for your own amusement is very wrong in my book. Killing to eat is another story.

I agree again, Jack. I've also got relatives in PA who hunt (most of whom also ended up in the military...coincidence?)...but how anyone can call hunting a "sport" is beyond me. Let me out there with a gun trying to pick you off, while you're setting your sights on Bambi, and then I'd think there was some "sport" involved. Otherwise, it seems about as much of a sport to me as a game between the Steelers and a pee wee football team.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:57 pm

I loved this movie....

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:05 pm

Teal wrote:
JackB1 wrote:
The problem I have is with hunting for "sport". Killing another animal for your own amusement is very wrong in my book. Killing to eat is another story.
Well, it's your book. And you're entitled to read it. I, on the other hand, have no interest in having that book read to me.

The happens to be another book that agrees with me. You might have heard of it. The Bible. Clearly says that the only the killing of animals for food is ok. It also says that mistreating animals or environment is not ok. If anyone can show me where in the Bible it says killing animals for fun is OK, please point it out.

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/what ... -mean.html

Quote:
According to the Bible not all killing, the taking of a life, is murder. Murder is the unlawfully taking of human life. The command not to murder applies to human beings, not to killing animals or plant life for food. God gave animals to mankind for his use (Genesis 1:26-30; 9:1-4). But, this does not mean that humans have the right mistreat animals and the environment (Genesis 2:15; Deuteronomy 22:6-7; 25:4; Proverbs 12:10).

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:21 pm

pk500 wrote:The opening of shotgun deer season last Saturday, Nov. 15, might as well be a state holiday ... here in upstate New York, a long way from the Mason-Dixon Line.

I'm one of the few guys I know not out in the field that day. One of these days I'll go out with my pals and check it out.

One more thing to consider when Bambi doesn't get culled by hunting: Lyme Disease will increase in humans due to the proliferation of deer ticks that carry the malady, which isn't fun. My brother-in-law got Lyme from a deer tick, and he was very sick for nearly four months.

So, if we want to save Bambi and watch humans get sick with a debilitating disease, then something is very wrong.

There's a good story in this week's SI about the negative ramifications of the decline of hunting as a sport.

Take care,
PK

Paul....you and I know most of the hunters out there doing the "culling" are there for kicks and could care less about managing the population for the environment's overall well being. It's just a way to justify a shooting free for all. Seems to me that Mother Nature did a pretty good job of managing the animal population by itself before man overcrowded the planet and forced all the animals into unnatural situations.

As far as killing all deer because they carry lime disease, should we apply that theory to everything? Seems to me that humans spread disease pretty well themselves. Again, it comes down to either seeing all living creatures as equal or seeing humans as superior and being the decider as to who/what lives or dies. Why couldn't we work on a lime disease inoculation? If not, should we just kill anything that could possibly harm humans in some way? Where is the cutoff?

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:22 pm

JackB1 wrote: If not, should we just kill anything that could possibly harm humans in some way? Where is the cutoff?

Indeed. Maybe we should consider having a moron season?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:25 pm

RobVarak wrote:
JackB1 wrote: If not, should we just kill anything that could possibly harm humans in some way? Where is the cutoff?
Indeed. Maybe we should consider having a moron season?

Ive have never considered buying a gun but now Im interested.

GameSeven · Post by **GameSeven** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:31 pm

JackB1 wrote:According to the Bible not all killing, the taking of a life, is murder. Murder is the unlawfully taking of human life. The command not to murder applies to human beings, not to killing animals or plant life for food. God gave animals to mankind for his use (Genesis 1:26-30; 9:1-4). But, this does not mean that humans have the right mistreat animals and the environment (Genesis 2:15; Deuteronomy 22:6-7; 25:4; Proverbs 12:10).

I'm not sure you read the quotations in question but they speak mostly to animal husbandry and not mistreating animals in one's employ. In fact, two of the Deuteronomy quotes refer to coming across an animal and it's children, that you may take of the young but leave the mother. So where is the anti-hunting stance?

For the record, I strongly dislike mistreatment and cruelty to animals and I don't hunt. By the same token, I am a realist. Mankind has long been omnivorous and the laws of the wild and the food chain have long included humans among them. I feel PK articulated the position pretty well before me.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:57 pm

GTHobbes wrote:
I agree again, Jack. I've also got relatives in PA who hunt (most of whom also ended up in the military...coincidence?

More stereotyping?

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:00 pm

XXXIV wrote:I loved this movie....

Who would have guessed we had the off Broadway version being played out for us in this thread?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:03 pm

JackDog wrote:
GTHobbes wrote:
I agree again, Jack. I've also got relatives in PA who hunt (most of whom also ended up in the military...coincidence?
More stereotyping?

JD... I take it you didnt watch the Xfiles from your San Francisco studio apartment much did you?

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:06 pm

JackB1 wrote:

Paul....you and I know most of the hunters out there doing the "culling" are there for kicks and could care less about managing the population for the environment's overall well being. It's just a way to justify a shooting free for all.

I call horseshit on this one Jack. Again your painting people in your own light because they don't feel the way you do. Do you understand how these type of comments make you sound?

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:07 pm

XXXIV wrote:
JackDog wrote:
GTHobbes wrote:
I agree again, Jack. I've also got relatives in PA who hunt (most of whom also ended up in the military...coincidence?
More stereotyping?
JD... I take it you didnt watch the Xfiles from your San Francisco studio apartment much did you?

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:52 pm

JackDog wrote:
GTHobbes wrote:
I agree again, Jack. I've also got relatives in PA who hunt (most of whom also ended up in the military...coincidence?
More stereotyping?

Actually, the statement was based on personal experience/facts. But whatever.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:54 pm

JackDog wrote:
XXXIV wrote:I loved this movie....

Who would have guessed we had the off Broadway version being played out for us in this thread?

Ridiculing those who don't agree with you. The true sign of a real intellectual.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:54 pm

GTHobbes wrote:
JackDog wrote:
GTHobbes wrote:
I agree again, Jack. I've also got relatives in PA who hunt (most of whom also ended up in the military...coincidence?
More stereotyping?
Actually, the statement was based on personal experience/facts. But whatever.

Whatever is damn right!

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:01 pm

GTHobbes wrote: Ridiculing those who don't agree with you. The true sign of a real intellectual.

I disagree.

GTHobbes wrote: I'd do a little dance if I read about a bear mauling some redneck hunter

I think dancing when those you disagree with are mauled by a bear is the sign an intellectual.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:11 pm

JackB1 wrote:The problem I have is with hunting for "sport". Killing another animal for your own amusement is very wrong in my book. Killing to eat is another story.

I'll have to *gasp* agree with you on this. I never much cared for hunting as sport. It's not very sporting when you've got a gun and they've got, well, antlers. I've only hunted a couple of times myself, but everyone I know that is a hunter eats the meat.

Edit: To clarify (after reading another page of comments on the subject): I don't have any problem with hunting "as a sport" if the hunters make use of what they kill. Killing simply to kill something because it is fun I do not understand. Hunting as a way of life I'm ok with. It is considered a sport, but I do not find it very "sporting" in that it's not a fair fight. Then again, Lions hunting zebra isn;t a fair fight either, but it's the way nature works.

I also strongly disagree with the statement that "most" hunters are just out there because they get a kick out of killing things. I do know a few people like that, but they are in the very small minority.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:32 pm

XXXIV wrote:I loved this movie....

Hmmm, Jack does ride a motorcycle....

I kid, I kid.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:59 pm

GTHobbes wrote:
JackDog wrote:
XXXIV wrote:I loved this movie....

Who would have guessed we had the off Broadway version being played out for us in this thread?
Ridiculing those who don't agree with you. The true sign of a real intellectual.

Thanks,but it was a joke. Sorry you didn't get it. I guess we're even. I didn't get your "Redneck" bear mauling dance joke. Something about humans getting mauled failed to make me laugh. I just ain't on your level yet. Maybe next time.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:37 pm

matthewk wrote: I'll have to *gasp* agree with you on this. I never much cared for hunting as sport. It's not very sporting when you've got a gun and they've got, well, antlers. I've only hunted a couple of times myself, but everyone I know that is a hunter eats the meat.

Good for you Matt. You gained a lot of points with me with that one

But seriously.....do these hunters that do in fact eat what they kill have no other available food around? Why kill more, when there are plenty of other food sources all around you. Heck, that hunter probably has a sandwich with him during his hunting trip. Killing for food for survival is one thing (e.g. eskimos)...killing and eating your food when you have stocked refrigerator at home is another. I would like to know how many hunters would starve to death if they didn't kill a deer every other Sunday.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:40 pm

Do consider hunting with a Bow and Arrow a sport?

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:36 pm

GTHobbes wrote:
JackDog wrote:
XXXIV wrote:I loved this movie....

Who would have guessed we had the off Broadway version being played out for us in this thread?
Ridiculing those who don't agree with you. The true sign of a real intellectual.

Did you REALLY just write that?!?!?!?

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:46 pm

Zlax45 wrote:Do consider hunting with a Bow and Arrow a sport?

Only way I'd consider it a "sport", is if u hunted with your bare hands only. You'd have to be in crazy shape to pull that one off...

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:00 pm

JackB1 wrote:
Teal wrote:
JackB1 wrote:
The problem I have is with hunting for "sport". Killing another animal for your own amusement is very wrong in my book. Killing to eat is another story.
Well, it's your book. And you're entitled to read it. I, on the other hand, have no interest in having that book read to me.
The happens to be another book that agrees with me. You might have heard of it. The Bible. Clearly says that the only the killing of animals for food is ok. It also says that mistreating animals or environment is not ok. If anyone can show me where in the Bible it says killing animals for fun is OK, please point it out.

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/what ... -mean.html

Quote:
According to the Bible not all killing, the taking of a life, is murder. Murder is the unlawfully taking of human life. The command not to murder applies to human beings, not to killing animals or plant life for food. God gave animals to mankind for his use (Genesis 1:26-30; 9:1-4). But, this does not mean that humans have the right mistreat animals and the environment (Genesis 2:15; Deuteronomy 22:6-7; 25:4; Proverbs 12:10).

You might have skimmed past this one, Jack:

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

We are to rule over AND subdue the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and every living creature that moves on the ground. Your interpretation of 'mistreat' is far, far too wide to be contained in any mandate in scripture.

And as a man of God to a self admitted non-variety at best, this probably isn't a road you want to go down with me, Jack. I think I can hold my own in this arena pretty well...