OT: Playoff baseball

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:24 pm

greggsand wrote:
Jared wrote:
Naples39 wrote:Driving home from the game last night down Broad Street was a labyrinth of honking horns and people standing on the middle divider and sidewalks yelling and fist-pumping. No doubt many Philadelphians expect this thing to end tonight with Hamels on the mound. I'll be going to the game again tonight and I have high hopes of seeing Philly's championship drought of 20+ years end tonight!!
You lucky SOB. (Ha! I didn't see Lexbur's post when I made this one...) I was thinking about hopping on the subway and heading down to the stadium tonight just to watch the insanity if the Phils win. Probably won't have the time, but I may just walk to Broad St. and watch the insanity...
By 'insanity', u mean looting?

Won't happen in Philly. I am serious. Historically, Philly fans have been great about celebrating and not turning into an angry mob. LA and Detroit are pros at it.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:34 pm

Diablo25 wrote:
greggsand wrote:By 'insanity', u mean looting?
Won't happen in Philly. I am serious. Historically, Philly fans have been great about celebrating and not turning into an angry mob. LA and Detroit are pros at it.

Other cities like LA have certainly set low standards for expected behavior upon winning championships, but I have to say, we are lacking in sample size to compare championship celebrations in Philadelphia.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:48 pm

What, nobody's Gremlin or Pacer got torched last time Philly won anything?

I shouldn't joke, at least there WERE motorized vehicles last time you guys won something.

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:48 pm

That's not funny, I still have burn marks on my Pinto.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:29 pm

Gonna be a messy night tonight. Forecast calls for light rain all night long with temps in the low 40s/high 30s. I wonder what effect this will have on the game. Hopefully won't hurt Hamels too much with all his changeups, but does tend to bother power pitchers.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:11 pm

These umpires suck. Burrell just struck out twice and the ump doesn't call it. In a 2-1 game, now the Phils have 1st and 2nd, no outs.

Edit: Balfour comes in and gets the Rays out of it.

snaz16 · Post by **snaz16** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:45 pm

Pete wrote:These umpires suck. Burrell just struck out twice and the ump doesn't call it. In a 2-1 game, now the Phils have 1st and 2nd, no outs.

Edit: Balfour comes in and gets the Rays out of it.

They are terrible. Strike zone is inconsistant. Tchsida misses an infield fly rule. And finally the game is halted in terrible conditions. Thank God the Rays have tied it.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:13 pm

snaz16 wrote:
Pete wrote:These umpires suck. Burrell just struck out twice and the ump doesn't call it. In a 2-1 game, now the Phils have 1st and 2nd, no outs.

Edit: Balfour comes in and gets the Rays out of it.
They are terrible. Strike zone is inconsistant. Tchsida misses an infield fly rule. And finally the game is halted in terrible conditions. Thank God the Rays have tied it.

Absolutely agree....

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:34 pm

I have to say, that's the first time I've seen the infield fly rule botched like that. Definitely a terrible series for these umps.

Selig didn't have the balls to stop the game with the Phillies up since it could have been declared official. Thankfully Upton hydroplaned home for the tying run so they could get the players off the field.

bulls23 · Post by **bulls23** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:49 pm

Dave wrote:I have to say, that's the first time I've seen the infield fly rule botched like that. Definitely a terrible series for these umps.

Selig didn't have the balls to stop the game with the Phillies up since it could have been declared official. Thankfully Upton hydroplaned home for the tying run so they could get the players off the field.

Agree on the umps, horrible horrible series. Can't believe these guys are the best MLB has to put on the field.

Disagree about Selig not having the "balls" to stop the game. WTF? How would you feel to have your team's fate decided by the comissioner or the umpires stopping the game? The only fair thing to do was to play it out. Although Tampa appears to have hustle issues in the series (appearing to not go all out even though this game could be it for them), they deserve to play all 9 innings even if it's in a tornado.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:10 am

What a mockery. The 6th inning should have never been started. Pathetic, Pathetic, Pathetic. They obviously had to stop it after the top of the 6th but the field was just as bad at the beginning of the 6th. Sickening. Totally changed the game...AGAIN.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:14 am

bulls23 wrote:Disagree about Selig "having the balls to stop the game". WTF? How would you feel to have your team's fate decided by the comissioner or the umpires stopping the game? The only fair thing to do was to play it out. Although Tampa appears to have hustle issues in the series (appearing to not go all out even though this game could be it for them), they deserve to play all 9 innings even if it's in a tornado.

MLB backed themselves in a corner by letting the 5th inning start--the conditions weren't going to get any better based on the radar. If the field was unplayable in the 6th, it was unplayable in the 5th as well, it was a mess.

There are rules in place to create an even playing field, like the one about lights coming on at the beginning of an inning and not in the middle, goofy as it might seem. With the conditions as they were, letting the Rays bat in the 6th inning but not the Phillies isn't a fair decision.

I'm saying there's no way Selig calls the game after 5 and gives the Phillies the win. That's cool, I support it and want to see the World Series played to a full conclusion. But letting it get to where it did was a joke.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:20 am

It's really simple...they shouldn't allow for "official" games in the playoffs. A team winning on a rain shortened game would be a travesty...even more so than what happened. I agree that they shouldn't have given the Rays a shot to tie it, but the other option is MUCH MUCH worse. In any playoff game, they should just have to continue it the next day...that's all there is to it. Scheduling nightmare to be sure, but sh*t...the alternative would be horrendous.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:27 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:It's really simple...they shouldn't allow for "official" games in the playoffs. A team winning on a rain shortened game would be a travesty...even more so than what happened. I agree that they shouldn't have given the Rays a shot to tie it, but the other option is MUCH MUCH worse. In any playoff game, they should just have to continue it the next day...that's all there is to it. Scheduling nightmare to be sure, but sh*t...the alternative would be horrendous.

It should be simple to address this in the offseason...but this is MLB we're talking about.

You have to admit, it is funny to see Selig get backed into the corner in situations like this or the All Star game tie debacle and near debacle this year.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:50 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:It's really simple...they shouldn't allow for "official" games in the playoffs. A team winning on a rain shortened game would be a travesty...even more so than what happened. I agree that they shouldn't have given the Rays a shot to tie it, but the other option is MUCH MUCH worse. In any playoff game, they should just have to continue it the next day...that's all there is to it. Scheduling nightmare to be sure, but sh*t...the alternative would be horrendous.

Yeah, imagine a 2.5 hour rain delay, then an ump walks out & says "game over. philly wins!". That'd be one for the ages... In the playoffs, "rain out" should not apply. Imagine if it was game 7, 9th inning, and one team was down a run?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:14 am

greggsand wrote:Yeah, imagine a 2.5 hour rain delay, then an ump walks out & says "game over. philly wins!". That'd be one for the ages... In the playoffs, "rain out" should not apply. Imagine if it was game 7, 9th inning, and one team was down a run?

Well that's essentially what would have happened, since Philly was up by a run in the 6th. They would have won the damn world series on a rainout. That would have been a travesty.

bulls23 · Post by **bulls23** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:48 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
greggsand wrote:Yeah, imagine a 2.5 hour rain delay, then an ump walks out & says "game over. philly wins!". That'd be one for the ages... In the playoffs, "rain out" should not apply. Imagine if it was game 7, 9th inning, and one team was down a run?
Well that's essentially what would have happened, since Philly was up by a run in the 6th. They would have won the damn world series on a rainout. That would have been a travesty.

Exactly. You have these people in here with their Phillie avatars saying "Tampa shouldn't have been allowed to bat in the 6th blah blah" The point is there was no other choice. Think if Tampa had not been allowed to bat in the 6th and did not tie the game. You either keep playing in dangerous conditions or you stop the game and sit around for hours. Or worse yet you have to call the game thanks to a crappy rule and Phillies win a tainted World Series on the worst way possible. The rule is not flexible the way it is written now. It needs to be changed in the offseason like the rule that was changed in 2007 to allow a team to keep their runs scored even in an uncompleted inning. Hard to believe though in over 100 years of the World Series, we've never seen this situation before.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:57 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:It's really simple...they shouldn't allow for "official" games in the playoffs. A team winning on a rain shortened game would be a travesty...even more so than what happened. I agree that they shouldn't have given the Rays a shot to tie it, but the other option is MUCH MUCH worse. In any playoff game, they should just have to continue it the next day...that's all there is to it. Scheduling nightmare to be sure, but sh*t...the alternative would be horrendous.

I agree DB. In a weird way (I can't believe I am saying this) I am kinda glad the Rays scored in the 6th because winning the Series in a rain shortened game would be so bad.

My entire issue with last night was letting the game even go into the 6th. By suspending it the Rays will now have ideal conditions to play defense...unlike the joke of a top of the 6th the Phillies had to play. Just Bad, bad, bad, bad. I couldn't believe I was watching a MLB game, let alone a World Series game, with standing friggin' water on the field. It baffles the hell out of me.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:12 am

Dave wrote:I have to say, that's the first time I've seen the infield fly rule botched like that.

In the press conference after the game with Selig and the umpires they felt they made the right call. It's not always an automatic out. It's the umpire's judgement if the ball can be caught with "ordinary effort". They can wave it off if it's windy or rainy.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:25 am

I don't know what the rules are on suspended games and whatnot, but playing the top of the 6th was a disgrace. The conditions were completely unplayable. Frankly they shouldn't have played the bottom of the 5th, and by the time it got even worse for the top of the 6th it was a total joke.

You can say that calling a game is a shitty way to end a world series, yet it's better to decide the most important game of the year in conditions that, plain and simple, baseball should never be played in? That's not a better alternative. That's like saying well, plan A is a bummer, so instead we'll turn to be plan B which is a total farce.

Selig has now taken the position that the game would go 9 no matter. I have no problem with that stance, but if this was the plan all along, this makes the decision to play the top of the 6th even worse. They saw the forecast that it was just getting worse--why give the Rays an extra at bat in unplayable conditions if you know you have no choice but to suspend the game immediately after their at bat? It makes zero sense.

I am still cold and wet.

Oh, and the forecast for tonight is 40 degrees, windy with showers.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:20 pm

All of the stories on ESPN seem to think that Selig had told the managers before the game that there was no way it was going to end without playing 9 innings at least. So...that takes away most of the drama in the last day of this thread. LOL.

So yeah...it helps that nearly all of the Phillies said they would have be pissed had they won the world series in a shortened game. So at least no one is bitching about that. That's good to see. Most of the wrath was because the game started in the first place...you know, with a VERY good chance of it getting delayed and the Phillies wasting their best pitcher. That is a shame...but I suppose they should have pitched someone else if there was that big of a threat. Sucks, but sometimes you have to manage the weather as well.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:30 pm

The Rays players were clearly not under the impression the game would go 9 no matter what;

And during this tsunami in Philadelphia, with the wind whipping, the cold biting their necks and down 2-1 after five innings, the collective belief in the Tampa Bay dugout was that if the Rays did not score in the top of the sixth inning, they would have lost the World Series.

BJ Upton

AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar

On a muddy track, B.J. Upton scored from second base on Carlos Pena's two-out single in the sixth inning to tie it at 2.
"We thought it was over," Crawford said. "We thought we had to score. We thought we better do something or that was going to be it."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2 ... id=3668144

Selig blew it. I agree with Bud's decree that the game must go 9 no matter what, but he didn't make that clear to the teams so they could plan for it. Then, to make matters worse, he had them play several innings in conditions ranging from very poor to completely unplayable, all the while knowing there was no way they could finish the game last night.

If you've already decided a suspended game is imminent, get the players off the field, the fans out of the stands and protect the quality of play ASAP. Instead last night we saw 1.5 hours of Selig's indecisiveness mar the biggest game of the year by playing in 'comical' conditions, to use the words of last night's umpire.

(Yeah, what can I say--I'm a little angry...

)

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:35 pm

How can you be angry Naples? You really would have wanted to win the world series in a rain shortened game?

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:46 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:How can you be angry Naples? You really would have wanted to win the world series in a rain shortened game?

Umm, read my post above.

Selig completely mismanaged the game. Decreeing that the game would go 9, then not telling anybody about it. Then letting them play for about an hour in terrible conditions that should've never happened.

First, if the plan was to go 9 from the start, the policy should've been clear to each team. This clearly was not the case. Second, if he was always willing to suspend the game, what the hell took so long? Playing the 6th and most of the 5th was an indefensible decision if he had already decided suspending the game was an option.

Selig's indecisiveness and lack of leadership essentially flushed 2 innings of World Series baseball down the toilet and kept the dedicated Phillies fans who were willing to stick it out cold and miserable for over an hour for no good reason.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:53 pm

I understand that...I'm just saying...it doesn't really matter what happened out there. Somehow the managers knew it wouldn't get rain-shortened...so why didn't they tell their players?