MLB Season discussion

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:16 pm

RobVarak wrote:
10spro wrote:The high spending Yankees are a game away from being ousted in the playoffs. How sweet. Hard to believe the incredible season that A-Rod had, is totally equalled by his inefectiveness in the playoffs.
Good grief, it's 2 games!!! An OPS of 1000 during the regular season doesn't insulate you from a 1-10 in 3 playoff games. This s*** happens.

It's widely known that 5 game series are a crap shoot, but so many people draw the most broad conclusion from them.

Five game series are a crap shooter alright, but at the same token that's where your top players have to come thru, because the pressure is bigger. And good grief we are not just talking about this year's playoff, A-Rod had a dissappearing act also last year. But like I said, if there's a team that can turn it's fortune around, it's the NYY.

Look at BOS. They are ahead of their series vs a very well coached LA team. They were down 3-2 halfway thru the game, people at bases, but when the pressure mounts, Big Papi and Manny always seem to come thru for the Sox.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:24 am

Congrats to Arizona for kicking Cubbie butt. I didn't expect a lot out of the Cubs but I thought they would score more than two runs per game. They never looked in sync throughout the series.

Wilk5280 · Post by **Wilk5280** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:23 am

Rocks 17 of 18 and headed into the NLCS.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:45 am

Rockies are going to win the NL pennant. I can't believe I am saying that. It's like they found some magic in a bottle and have been drinking it the last few weeks. Their story is unreal.

Lou Pinella, I thought this guy was supposed to be a great playoff manager. All I saw was this guy not play any small ball, not bunt guys over in the series, and not make necessary pitching moves. I keep hearing cub fans whine about taking Zambrano out in game 1, but that really doesn't matter. That game was lost earlier when Lou didn't have his players bunt guys over with less than 2 outs and runners on 2nd. If I were a cubs fan, I would have kept Baker, since he use to do the same thing as Lou did this year. What a phony.

Still, these rockies, can't believe them. Who are their starters, they're all a bunch of no names. They really are like the second coming on the 69 mets.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:54 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Lou Pinella, I thought this guy was supposed to be a great playoff manager. All I saw was this guy not play any small ball, not bunt guys over in the series, and not make necessary pitching moves. I keep hearing cub fans whine about taking Zambrano out in game 1, but that really doesn't matter. That game was lost earlier when Lou didn't have his players bunt guys over with less than 2 outs and runners on 2nd. If I were a cubs fan, I would have kept Baker, since he use to do the same thing as Lou did this year. What a phony.

Are you f'in serious? I don't even know why I check this thread because I see more horsesh1t in here than any other place on the board. It's Pinella's fault that his 3 most productive hitters left more hitters on base than they have all year? Did he go .087 with RISP? For that matter, what difference does it make if you SAC guys to second if your team isn't hitting with RISP? Maybe chewing a toothpick would have helped?

I sincerely thought that the cult of small ball was dead among thinking baseball fans. Guess not. Apparently there are still Don Baylor devotees out there.

The Cubs would not have scored more runs by creating more outs for themselves! You don't cut the balls off a team that's getting on base at a .500 clip (like they were yesterday) by throwing away outs. Even if you believe in small ball, it's only sensible in situations where baserunners are scarce.

Look, they lost because they couldn't get a timely hit to save their lives, not becuase they had too many first and second with no out situations LOL

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:30 am

Both Rockies and Diamondbacks are around $50 million in payroll.

Both will go up no doubt as these young players get bigger contracts, although one of the Diamondbacks' owners is Jeff Morad, who was Lee Steinberg's partners back in the day.

Would be awesome if Cleveland, which probably has the lowest payroll among the AL playoff t eams, got to the WS.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:25 pm

RobVarak wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Lou Pinella, I thought this guy was supposed to be a great playoff manager. All I saw was this guy not play any small ball, not bunt guys over in the series, and not make necessary pitching moves. I keep hearing cub fans whine about taking Zambrano out in game 1, but that really doesn't matter. That game was lost earlier when Lou didn't have his players bunt guys over with less than 2 outs and runners on 2nd. If I were a cubs fan, I would have kept Baker, since he use to do the same thing as Lou did this year. What a phony.
Are you f'in serious? I don't even know why I check this thread because I see more horsesh1t in here than any other place on the board. It's Pinella's fault that his 3 most productive hitters left more hitters on base than they have all year? Did he go .087 with RISP? For that matter, what difference does it make if you SAC guys to second if your team isn't hitting with RISP? Maybe chewing a toothpick would have helped?

I sincerely thought that the cult of small ball was dead among thinking baseball fans. Guess not. Apparently there are still Don Baylor devotees out there.

The Cubs would not have scored more runs by creating more outs for themselves! You don't cut the balls off a team that's getting on base at a .500 clip (like they were yesterday) by throwing away outs. Even if you believe in small ball, it's only sensible in situations where baserunners are scarce.

Look, they lost because they couldn't get a timely hit to save their lives, not becuase they had too many first and second with no out situations LOL

you know nothing about baseball. At least the guy chewing the toothpick won what, 6 playoff games with the cubs. How many has the great crock Lou won? that's right, zero.

Game 1 was LOST MY THE MANAGER because he did not bunt guys over with a man in scoring position and no outs vs the best starter in the NL. Isn't that the same s*** you cub fans complained about dusty doing? Not knowing how to manage in the playoffs? But I guess Lou get's a pass from Cub fans since he's so funny and charming during the post game press conf.

I guess there's a reason why your franchise hasn't won in 99 years.

Wilk5280 · Post by **Wilk5280** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:36 pm

wco81 wrote:Both Rockies and Diamondbacks are around $50 million in payroll.

Both will go up no doubt as these young players get bigger contracts, although one of the Diamondbacks' owners is Jeff Morad, who was Lee Steinberg's partners back in the day.

Would be awesome if Cleveland, which probably has the lowest payroll among the AL playoff t eams, got to the WS.

the monfort brothers have already confirmed that the rockies payroll will in fact be going up. Some have speculated up to 70 million.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:32 pm

you know nothing about baseball.

Maybe, but I know a great deal about grammar, spelling and civility, so I've got that going for me...which is nice.

At least the guy chewing the toothpick won what, 6 playoff games with the cubs. How many has the great crock Lou won? that's right, zero.

You've got me there. Based on that alone, Dusty is clearly the superior manager. Can't argue with that logic...literally.

Game 1 was LOST MY THE MANAGER because he did not bunt guys over with a man in scoring position and no outs vs the best starter in the NL. Isn't that the same s*** you cub fans complained about dusty doing? Not knowing how to manage in the playoffs? But I guess Lou get's a pass from Cub fans since he's so funny and charming during the post game press conf.

I can't speak for all Cubs fans, but those of us who know nothing about baseball were much more critical of other aspects of his tenure, particularly his abuse of pitchers, his attachment to certain mediocre players and his bizarre attitude toward evaluating talent. That's not to say that he didn't have rings managed around him in the '03 NLCS, because he did. And it wasn't because he didn't bunt enough.

I guess there's a reason why your franchise hasn't won in 99 years

There are dozens, if not hundreds of reasons. None of them have appeared in any of your posts, but they're not hard to find if you look around a bit.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:01 pm

Inuyasha wrote:Game 1 was LOST MY THE MANAGER because he did not bunt guys over with a man in scoring position and no outs vs the best starter in the NL. Isn't that the same s*** you cub fans complained about dusty doing? Not knowing how to manage in the playoffs? But I guess Lou get's a pass from Cub fans since he's so funny and charming during the post game press conf.

That's ridiculous. If you already have the runners in scoring position with no outs against the other teams best pitcher why the hell would you give them a free out to move them to third? For the sacrifice fly? I don't agree with that logic at all especially since the Cubs don't work on bunting that much. Yeah, if you actually followed the team for more than 3 games you would know that, but you don't. Seems to me that you should be able to drive in a run in 3 chances and if you don't you won't win a series. Oh, wait a minute, they didn't win the series. The Cubs don't bunt well at all, surely you noticed that during the series in the very few times they tried to.

You can question why Lou pulled Z in the first game when he did but with the way Marmol pitched all season it makes sense. I don't know why you're so pissy about Lou and defensive of Dusty. I have no problems how Lou managed the playoffs this year but I do have a problem with all of the runners left on base. That falls on the players, IMO.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:29 pm

Baseball Prospectus had no problem with Lou's move to Marmol and I'll take their word over just about any other analysis. Results-based anlaysis is the easy thing to do, but Marmol was lights out during the regular season and the best reliever in the series. It didn't work, but a fresh Marmol is going to be at least as effective as Zambrano. And focusing on that ignores the pathetic Cubs offense. As a Twins fan, I saw plenty of needless picking on a pitching staff when an offense sucked this year.

There is a first time for everything, so I guess I shouldn't be that surprised to see someone claim Dusty Baker is a better manager than Piniella.

Don't people always like to point to championship rings? Sweet Lou 1, Dusty 0.

And I'm so f*cking tired of announcers getting on their knees at the alter of small ball. After a 3-run HR, the announcers kept talking about how important Doug Davis' sac bunt was. What a joke, he could have gone up there and tried to hit the ball with his bare hand and it wouldn't have helped or hurt his team's chances.

The other night one of the games had a ton of sac bunts but no one had scored. Shocking.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:40 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:Game 1 was LOST MY THE MANAGER because he did not bunt guys over with a man in scoring position and no outs vs the best starter in the NL. Isn't that the same s*** you cub fans complained about dusty doing? Not knowing how to manage in the playoffs? But I guess Lou get's a pass from Cub fans since he's so funny and charming during the post game press conf.
That's ridiculous. If you already have the runners in scoring position with no outs against the other teams best pitcher why the hell would you give them a free out to move them to third? For the sacrifice fly? I don't agree with that logic at all especially since the Cubs don't work on bunting that much. Yeah, if you actually followed the team for more than 3 games you would know that, but you don't. Seems to me that you should be able to drive in a run in 3 chances and if you don't you won't win a series. Oh, wait a minute, they didn't win the series. The Cubs don't bunt well at all, surely you noticed that during the series in the very few times they tried to.

You can question why Lou pulled Z in the first game when he did but with the way Marmol pitched all season it makes sense. I don't know why you're so pissy about Lou and defensive of Dusty. I have no problems how Lou managed the playoffs this year but I do have a problem with all of the runners left on base. That falls on the players, IMO.

Well you're right about one thing, I and much of the National media didn't follow the cubs much this year unless they were on National TV. Thanks to the cubs performance in the playoffs, they really proved us wrong and showed us that they were not a true playoff contender.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:54 pm

The Cubs lost to a better "team".

The Dbacks had the best record in the NL playing in the best division in the NL. The only reason the Cubs were even in the playoffs is beacuse they played in the worst division in baseball.

Its always good to see the big payroll go down in flames.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:50 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Its always good to see the big payroll go down in flames.

Why exactly is that?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:57 pm

RobVarak wrote:
XXXIV wrote:
Its always good to see the big payroll go down in flames.
Why exactly is that?

Cause Im a White Sox fan

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:53 pm

XXXIV wrote:
RobVarak wrote:
XXXIV wrote:
Its always good to see the big payroll go down in flames.
Why exactly is that?

Cause Im a White Sox fan

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but you're rooting against your own kind

:

2007

Team Total payroll
New York Yankees $ 189,639,045
Boston Red Sox $ 143,026,214
New York Mets $ 115,231,663
Los Angeles Angels $ 109,251,333
Chicago White Sox $ 108,671,833
Los Angeles Dodgers $ 108,454,524
Seattle Mariners $ 106,460,833
Chicago Cubs $ 99,670,332

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:57 pm

RobVarak wrote:
XXXIV wrote:
RobVarak wrote: Why exactly is that?

Cause Im a White Sox fan
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but you're rooting against your own kind :

2007

Team Total payroll
New York Yankees $ 189,639,045
Boston Red Sox $ 143,026,214
New York Mets $ 115,231,663
Los Angeles Angels $ 109,251,333
Chicago White Sox $ 108,671,833
Los Angeles Dodgers $ 108,454,524
Seattle Mariners $ 106,460,833
Chicago Cubs $ 99,670,332

I hate you

....

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:12 pm

Even if it's a fluke, one-year or short-term phenomenon, it would be better for the sport if money didn't determine success in the post season.

Imagine if Yankees had kept winning World Series all these years with their payroll.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:16 pm

wco81 wrote: Imagine if Yankees had kept winning World Series all these years with their payroll.

I just threw up in my mouth.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:32 pm

wco81 wrote:Even if it's a fluke, one-year or short-term phenomenon, it would be better for the sport if money didn't determine success in the post season.

Imagine if Yankees had kept winning World Series all these years with their payroll.

I think that the fact that the Yankees haven't won all those World Series is an indicator that money does not determine post-season success.

An interesting article on competitive balance.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=6536

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:04 am

The addition of the Wild Card has been the main contributor to the randomness of the MLB postseason. Anything can happen in a 5-game series, hell the Royals (or 2007 White Sox

) would win one every once in a while against the Red Sox.

I would hate to be a fan of a non-NY/Bos team in the AL East though. Those teams are up against terrible odds even to get a Wild Card birth. With all of their young, potentially superstar talent, the D-Rays could have a shot at it a few years from now before those two teams sign away their best players. It is tough to compete against teams that can make HUGE free agency mistakes and cover them up with equally huge free agent signings.

Is anyone else as scared as I am that the Yankees are starting to use their homegrown, and currently cheap, talent?

TheGamer · Post by **TheGamer** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:11 am

I feel bad about this Cubs season, as this team should have run away and hid from the rest of the NL, especially the Central Division. On paper, their offense should have been as dominating as any AL team. Players ultimately win games, but managers do deserve some blame and credit. Tribune company gave Lou $400 million in new salary. I believe something wasn't right in the Cubs clubhouse. Notice how their turnaround began when Lou was suspended for the 3 games. I am more disappointed in this season as I had more expectations going into this season with the free agent signings that were made, the new manager and what appeared to be better team physical health after all the injuries the team had in 2006. Going into 2003 there were no high expectations coming off a 67 win season in 02, just that we had a new manager that had just come off WS appearance.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:00 pm

Byrd vs. Wang tonight makes me nervous, I don't what to expect. I heard they're not going to hesitate at all to bring in Laffey at the first sign of trouble for Byrd. Some were even wondering if Laffey should start.

Oh well, between Byrd and Laffey, hopefully one of them can come up big tonight.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:55 pm

lexbur wrote:Byrd vs. Wang tonight makes me nervous, I don't what to expect. I heard they're not going to hesitate at all to bring in Laffey at the first sign of trouble for Byrd. Some were even wondering if Laffey should start.

Oh well, between Byrd and Laffey, hopefully one of them can come up big tonight.

You got to drive the silver stake through the beast's heart.

Why isn't Sabathia coming back on the same number of days rest as Wang?

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:18 pm

wco81 wrote: Why isn't Sabathia coming back on the same number of days rest as Wang?

Wedge said at the beginning of the series he wanted to go with a four-man rotation and he says he doesn't see any reason to change plans now. He's got more confidence in Byrd than I do right now. I wonder if he would feel the same if we were down 2 games to 1.

No doubt Byrd had a great year, but he seemed to run out of steam late in the season. He does better against teams that are over-agressive at the plate and swing at his junk that's off the plate. The Yankees are way too patient at the plate to go chasing after that stuff. That's why I'm worried.

I guess we'll see. By the end of the night Wedge will either be a genius or a moron!