OT: LOST Season 3 Discussion **** SPOILERS ****

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Spooky
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Post by Spooky »

Gotta love when Rose told Jack "if you're gonna tell me 'live together, die alone' again I'm gonna punch you in the mouth!".

My other favorite part is when Syiad went all Martin Riggs on The Other dude with his legs! Ouch!!!

Anyone have any guesses on who was in the coffin in the flash forward?

Walt seems to have hit puberty. Can't wait for the writers to explain that.

Wonder who Kate was referring to at the end in the flash forward when she said "I have to get back before 'he' realizes I'm gone"!?!

Charlie, one of my least favorite characters as well, went out like a stud. Loved the marker on the had bit!

I loved how this finale ended with the beach group seemingly on top to offset last years 'Empire Strikes Back' finale when they were totally screwed.
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Post by jondiehl »

RobVarak wrote: And the Charlie death sequence was wonderfully done.
Not here.

Why would Charlie kill himself like that? There was absolutely no reason (that I can tell) why he needed to stay in the control room and drown. He had already turned off the jamming signal and when the one-eyed guy showed up with the nade, all he had to do was bolt through the door to Desmond and seal it shut like they had time to do anyway.

I got really confused there as to why Charlie had to die.
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Post by Drag66 »

I kept thinking the same thing as you - "Why didn't he just shut that door and him and Desmond swim out and get back to the canoe?" But Desmond's vision was that Charlie had to die in order for everyone to be rescued. So, Charlie sacrificed himself for everyone else. Now whether they will be rescued is a whole other question to be answered and we have to wait until February 2008 to see it. :x I know that some will get rescued eventually (Jack and Kate in the falsh forward), but it likely won't happen until Season 6.
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Post by RobVarak »

jondiehl wrote:
Not here.

Why would Charlie kill himself like that? There was absolutely no reason (that I can tell) why he needed to stay in the control room and drown. He had already turned off the jamming signal and when the one-eyed guy showed up with the nade, all he had to do was bolt through the door to Desmond and seal it shut like they had time to do anyway.

I got really confused there as to why Charlie had to die.
That's what made the whole thing poignant! He didn't have to. He was essentially giving himself over to the notion that despite the momentary hope of the scuba gear, he had to make the sacrifice that Desmond had forseen.
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Post by Slumberland »

I'm no expert on moon pools, but I assume they require some level of air pressure to function. Maybe the room would have filled up too fast for either of them to make an escape, had Charlie not closed the door. But couldn't he have closed it from the other side? Even if the "knob" was on the inside, I would think the pressure would have kep the door closed as it filled up with water, if it indeed opens inwards. Maybe it didn't. I thought a more plausible death would have been he and Desmond attempting to swim to the surface, but Charlie doesn't make it. The rush of water would have created a current against them, so that would have made it difficult to swim. But then you don't have that clever little marker on the hand bit. I also thought Charlie might try to swim ouf of that window... he's a little dude. Anyway, just a bit of tarnish on what I thought was still a poignant and well-shot death scene.

Some people have tried to suss out what the obit says that Jack was carrying around. The departed's name definitely starts with a 'J' and seems to end with 'antham'. Jeremy Bentham is another 19th century philosopher whose 'Panopticon' apparently deals with prisons where the occupants aren't aware of their own surveillance. New character, perhaps? The obit also implies some connection to New York, or that they're from there.

First instinct tells me the offshore ship is the second coming of the Dharma Initiative... but it's probably something much worse.
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Post by RobVarak »

Just found this tidbit on MSNBC. The name of the funeral home where Jack went to visit:

Anagram alert!

Hoffs Drawlar = Flash Forward
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Post by Danimal »

Drag66 wrote:Now whether they will be rescued is a whole other question to be answered and we have to wait until February 2008 to see it. :x I know that some will get rescued eventually (Jack and Kate in the falsh forward), but it likely won't happen until Season 6.
I don't agree with that thought. I see the new seasons going one of two ways:

1. The scene with Jack and kate will turn out to be the last scene of the whole series, and we will see the events that transpire with them getting off the island etc and continue to flash forward. (I'm not a fan opf this BTW, but I think this is where it is going)

2. The series will now go in the direction that they (or at least Jack) will try and find a way back to the island and they will use the flashes to show everything that happens with them getting off the island to the present.

BTW who says Charlie is dead? Locke took a gun shot to the chest, Cyclops surivived a sonic fence and a spear gun to the heart. Ya never know.
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Post by ScoopBrady »

My guess is Jack visited Jacob's funeral and Kate needed to get back to Sawyer.

Great episode last night.
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Post by matthewk »

Danimal wrote:Wow

Just not sure what else to say. I'll have to watch it again, I froze the frame on the newspaper to try and find out who was dead, but no luck.
Already been done:

http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2...ing-glass.html
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Post by Badgun »

Danimal wrote:
Drag66 wrote:Now whether they will be rescued is a whole other question to be answered and we have to wait until February 2008 to see it. :x I know that some will get rescued eventually (Jack and Kate in the falsh forward), but it likely won't happen until Season 6.
I don't agree with that thought. I see the new seasons going one of two ways:

1. The scene with Jack and kate will turn out to be the last scene of the whole series, and we will see the events that transpire with them getting off the island etc and continue to flash forward. (I'm not a fan opf this BTW, but I think this is where it is going)

2. The series will now go in the direction that they (or at least Jack) will try and find a way back to the island and they will use the flashes to show everything that happens with them getting off the island to the present.

BTW who says Charlie is dead? Locke took a gun shot to the chest, Cyclops surivived a sonic fence and a spear gun to the heart. Ya never know.
Yeah, the last scene of Charlie clearly showed the blown open window behind him. My guess is he swims through the hole and back up to the surface.
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Post by Spooky »

Danimal wrote:
Drag66 wrote:Now whether they will be rescued is a whole other question to be answered and we have to wait until February 2008 to see it. :x I know that some will get rescued eventually (Jack and Kate in the falsh forward), but it likely won't happen until Season 6.
I don't agree with that thought. I see the new seasons going one of two ways:

1. The scene with Jack and kate will turn out to be the last scene of the whole series, and we will see the events that transpire with them getting off the island etc and continue to flash forward. (I'm not a fan opf this BTW, but I think this is where it is going)

2. The series will now go in the direction that they (or at least Jack) will try and find a way back to the island and they will use the flashes to show everything that happens with them getting off the island to the present.

BTW who says Charlie is dead? Locke took a gun shot to the chest, Cyclops surivived a sonic fence and a spear gun to the heart. Ya never know.
Great points. It will be very interesting. The more I think about it now, the more I think it would be awesome to have season 4 start with present day bieng the 'flash forward" (like your #2 scenario) and then have the flashes be how they got off the island, etc...then have all of that covered by mid-season 5 or so, then use the rest of the time to propel forward from the present day stuff. If that makes any sense!?!
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Post by Danimal »

Ok apparently Charlie is dead, like really. There is an interview withi him on EOnline. You can tell he is kind of sad about it but it playing the good solider, too bad I enjoed his character.
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Post by Spooky »

Okay...now I am starting to think the the direction may be a different scenario than the two Danimal listed...

This was my inital thought when watching last night and was articulated nicely in a different fourm...

"The flashforward was not the actual present day, but merely a vision of a possible future, what COULD happen to Jack if he makes that call, just like Des's visions are of possible futures, assuming he doesn't intervene -- in which case, the series will continue as it was."

The flash was not a reality, but a skewed one that is a possible furutre if certain things don't transpire.

I am thinking more now that this is probably the direction because the writers were purposefully trying to allude to Jacks father being alive which IMO is them trying to tell the audience that this is not a “real” world future. In the “real” world Jacks father is dead. Jack just being buzzed is a lame excuse for him continuing to reference his father as alive and still working at the hospital.

I could see him alluding to his father being alive once in this flash forward and then having a weird reaction or facial expression from someone to confirm that he is just drunk. But to have it referenced 2 or 3 times without anyone flinching makes me think that in this “flash forward” his dad is alive and it is not a “real” future.
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Post by Drag66 »

Danimal wrote:
Drag66 wrote:Now whether they will be rescued is a whole other question to be answered and we have to wait until February 2008 to see it. :x I know that some will get rescued eventually (Jack and Kate in the falsh forward), but it likely won't happen until Season 6.
I don't agree with that thought. I see the new seasons going one of two ways:

1. The scene with Jack and kate will turn out to be the last scene of the whole series, and we will see the events that transpire with them getting off the island etc and continue to flash forward. (I'm not a fan opf this BTW, but I think this is where it is going)

2. The series will now go in the direction that they (or at least Jack) will try and find a way back to the island and they will use the flashes to show everything that happens with them getting off the island to the present.

BTW who says Charlie is dead? Locke took a gun shot to the chest, Cyclops surivived a sonic fence and a spear gun to the heart. Ya never know.
That's what I was saying Danimal. I agree that the show will be going the way of your first theory. The Jack and Kate scene is the end of the series, we know they get rescued, and the next 3 seasons will be everything that happened in between. I too am not a fan of this and I hope we are both wrong.
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Post by Danimal »

Well what it is going forward is open to opinion. There are 2 great interviews on E-Online, one of the producers basically said they left it this way on purpose. So people could form their own opinions on what was happening and were the show goes next.

Having said that lets me just say why I disagree with the theory that its a possible future.

It was a flash forward, heck the funeral parlors name was an anagram for flash forward.. The paper Jack was reading is apparently an actual LA Times from April of this year.

They gave us a piece of the puzzle for the entire story arc, where that piece fits is the question. Is it the end, is it the middle? I don't know...but to back off and say this is a possible future if thye leave seems kind of cheap and I do't think these guys will go that route. Killing Charlie was a risky move, there is a chance they just lost a lot of fans, but they did it because they felt that it needed to happen to advance the story.

This is what I believe will happen. Season 4 will be the story of their rescue and return to society with more flash forwards and backwards, so most of the show will still be on the island. Season 5 is them off the island entirely discovering that they made a mistake for whatever reason and realizing the results of their action by leaving. The final season will be the about them getting back to the island and eventually making it there and that is how the series will end.
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Post by Zeppo »

Danimal wrote:...but to back off and say this is a possible future if thye leave seems kind of cheap and I do't think these guys will go that route.
Hmm, really? Whence comes this confidence in the Lost creators not pulling cheap tricks?

As to Charlie dying because it 'needed to happen to advance the story,' I tend to believe it needed to happen to get Monoghan out of his contract, or because he wouldn't renew. What part of the story, exactly, is advanced necessarily by the death of Charlie?

My stupid DVR didn't record the damn thing, since it started at 9pm (I had set it to only record episodes at 10pm since I didn't want all that 'what happened up to now' BS filling up the DVR's drive space. . . ), so I only saw the last half-hour. I plan on watching it online at some point soon, but somehow having seen the denoument, I don't feel like I really missed all that much.
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Post by wco81 »

Well after the next 48 episodes, they better have a more satisfactory resolution than the Gilligan's Island crew just getting off the island.
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Post by matthewk »

I am soooooo glad I decided to stick with this show after being a bit disillusioned during the first part of season 3. It also helps that the show is on a 9pm so I can have the kids in bed, leaving me to concentrate on the details of the show :)

I pretty much concur with a theory I read somewhere today that basically states that they are in some sort of time loop. They are reliving the same scenario over and over, but never getting it "right" and getting themselves out of the loop.

Time is definitely an important piece of the puzzle. Then there are the links to the Losties. The keypad in the looking glass was programmed by a musician. What if it was Charlie? What if Desmond's visions are images from their previous attempts? When Ben took Locke to see Jacob he mentioned that Jacob does not like technology...much like Locke. I think there is the potential that Locke is Jacob.

The voices in the jungle could also be "leftovers" from prior timelines of the Losties. Maybe in some way the "dead" are still around and can get through enough to be heard via the whispers.

With all the dead time until the nest season starts, I may have to pick up the series on DVD and look for clues :)
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Post by Danimal »

Zeppo wrote:Hmm, really? Whence comes this confidence in the Lost creators not pulling cheap tricks?
What are some of the cheap tricks you refer to?
As to Charlie dying because it 'needed to happen to advance the story,' I tend to believe it needed to happen to get Monoghan out of his contract, or because he wouldn't renew. What part of the story, exactly, is advanced necessarily by the death of Charlie?
Well considering he seemed upset to be leaving and he probably isn't the highest paid actor I doubt thats it. Well to say that Desmond has these visions and they come true and have Charlie believe 100% that he had to die to save Calire and the rest of the surviviors but then say "Ya know what lets have him live" Sure would have made the whole season of Charlie / Desmond seem like a waste. But that's just my opinion.
My stupid DVR didn't record the damn thing, since it started at 9pm (I had set it to only record episodes at 10pm since I didn't want all that 'what happened up to now' BS filling up the DVR's drive space. . . ), so I only saw the last half-hour. I plan on watching it online at some point soon, but somehow having seen the denoument, I don't feel like I really missed all that much.
In my mind it was the best season finale any show had this season and one of the best Lost episodes ever. I'll be willing to bet you won't enjoy it though, you seem to have a disdain for the show and I can't see these 2 hours changing that fact.
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Post by matthewk »

To me, Chalie's death made perfect sense in the story. Desmond tells him "This time you have to die". Charlie believes that in order for Claire and Aaron to get on the rescue copter, he has to die. It's part of the sequence. If Charlie lives, then maybe the chopper doesn't come to save them.

It sucks that a good character has to die, but in terms of the story it's the best result.

Then again....maybe he could still live. He survived being hung by Ethan, so maybe he has a little healing power in him as well. Wouldn't that be the ultimate swerve, if Charlie's character really was signed on for the next season and his interviews were just a way to "punk" everyone? Of course, then we'd have some crazed Lost-freak go and try and kill him for real :?
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Post by Danimal »

Drag66 wrote: That's what I was saying Danimal. I agree that the show will be going the way of your first theory. The Jack and Kate scene is the end of the series, we know they get rescued, and the next 3 seasons will be everything that happened in between. I too am not a fan of this and I hope we are both wrong.
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Post by GameSeven »

I, too, was perplexed with Charlie's decision to close the door from the inside rather than from the outside. I had all but settled on the detiny angle whereby he must self-sacrifice in order that the rest may be rescued. However, perhaps the writers intended for him to save Desmond. Desmond had just seen Penny on the monitor and was hell-bent upon bursting into the room. Charlie might think he'd no choice to save Desmond but to slam the door shut immediately. A bit contrived, but it wouldn't be the first time.
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Post by pigpen81 »

It would have left me on the floor if Charlie would have said upon learning that the woman was Desmond's Penelope, "Wow, Desmond was right, you are a hot piece of tail!"
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Post by Airdog »

I got around to watching it today and have to say that it was very well done, but I guessed that the flashbacks were flashforwards by the end of the second one, because everyone kept on telling me how crazy and messed up this show was supposed to be.

I used a really cool program to stream the DivX videos to my 360 called MCE Video Encoder. Really neat piece of software. Check it out at:

http://www.lightningware.co.uk/software ... e=LWS-MVE1

I believe it can only work with Windows Media Center Edition, but if you have WMCE and a 360, you have to check this out. A torrentor's dream come true. I had a few minor problems getting it started, but if you have any let me know and I probably came across it.
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Post by Diablo25 »

Airdog wrote:I got around to watching it today and have to say that it was very well done, but I guessed that the flashbacks were flashforwards by the end of the second one, because everyone kept on telling me how crazy and messed up this show was supposed to be.

I used a really cool program to stream the DivX videos to my 360 called MCE Video Encoder. Really neat piece of software. Check it out at:

http://www.lightningware.co.uk/software ... e=LWS-MVE1

I believe it can only work with Windows Media Center Edition, but if you have WMCE and a 360, you have to check this out. A torrentor's dream come true. I had a few minor problems getting it started, but if you have any let me know and I probably came across it.
I just use Videora's Xbox 360 converter if I want to stream any vids to my 360. Conversions are pretty quick. Cool thing is any recorded show using WMC is already good to go for streaming so there is no need to convert.
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