MLB Off-season discussion

EDiddy · Post by **EDiddy** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:17 pm

Cincy,

I will look into where I saw those repors about Wily Mo going. I read a lot of Hal McCoy, so it might have been in there.

About Wily Mo,
He has obvious huge offensive upside. He is, no exgageration,the worst defensive outfielder in baseball. His instincts are horrendous. The only one close to him at the bottom is Moises Alou. When he retires, Bob Boone whould proably grade out as a better def. player than Wiley Mo. And Kearns his an above average fielder with a good arm. Thats why I would proably prefer to keep Kearns.

It just stinks because Wily Mo is so talented offensivly, would be nice if he learned first base, as Dunn is adequate in Left.

I can realte to your feeling about the natti sports. But mine is actually more positive. When I moved away, I found everyone really hates Ohio sports. Everyone hates OSU, the Bengals where a joke, and the Reds were sliding into small market ville. It was kind of refreshing to actual have to defend why I like my teams, and not just the default "Homer" fan. And unlike you Cincy, I live in Davenport, Iowa where there are no professional sports teams. Causing me to stay pretty focused on Ohio Sports. I can understand how you could be drawn to the dark side, with the constant media bomardment with local teams:-) I do miss being at the ball park and listening to Andy Furman and Chris Collingsworth and Earl Pitts. [Pulpit]But hey, the main Coach up above leads us to different places for a reason.[/Pulpit]

CincyKid · Post by **CincyKid** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:57 pm

thanks d ....yeah its just the reds thats getting harder to follow im still as big a bengals fan as i was in the mid 70s....

as i can grab there games on ebay burned dvds every week and feel as if i have followed them all along...cant wait to get this past weeks game tommarow hen UPS shows up

i still wear a reds cap with pride but its tough not getting to see or hear most of the 162 reds games a year down here where i never miss a rays game...also when lou pinnela showed up a couple years back it gave them that link to the 1990 reds team i liked so much....not to mention billy hatcher has been here all along

Go Reds,Go Devil Rays,Go Bengals,Go Buccaneers

CincyKid · Post by **CincyKid** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:53 am

alfonso soriano to the nationals for brad wilkerson and termel sludge

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:26 am

That's a lot to give up for one year of Soriano. Wilkerson is a pretty solid ballplayer and Sledge is good enough to be a 4th or 5th OF.

Lyle Overbay is rumored to be going to Toronto with some combination of David Bush, Hillenbrand, Gabe Gross or a minor league pitcher headed to Milwaukee. Overbay helped the Brewers for a few years by holding down 1B until Prince Fielder was ready. I really think Doug Melvin has been doing a great job rebuilding the Brewer organization.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:35 am

Hell yes he has SF...they are doing a damn good job in Milwaukee with very little payroll to work with.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:22 am

sfz_T-car wrote:That's a lot to give up for one year of Soriano. Wilkerson is a pretty solid ballplayer and Sledge is good enough to be a 4th or 5th OF.

Lyle Overbay is rumored to be going to Toronto with some combination of David Bush, Hillenbrand, Gabe Gross or a minor league pitcher headed to Milwaukee. Overbay helped the Brewers for a few years by holding down 1B until Prince Fielder was ready. I really think Doug Melvin has been doing a great job rebuilding the Brewer organization.

Hmmm, I am not sure if giving away Gabe gross was a good idea. He was to be the future for the BlueJays. Besides D. Bush they added a pitcher from their farm team, giving away Hillenbrand would have been a one sided trade for Overbay whose numbers are .276 avg and 19 homers. Maybe E. Hinske's days with the Jays are numbered. Still, I think the Jays gave too much.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:00 am

I know the BJs have been really generous this off season, but they didn't give up all those guys for Overbay. I've seen some reports of Hillenbrand & Bush, others with Gross, Bush and a minor leaguer. We'll have to see who's in the deal when it's announced on Thursday AM.

Bush has been pretty average in the Majors but I'd like to see if Mike Maddux can do anything with him.

CincyKid · Post by **CincyKid** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:04 am

any padres fans funny clip from phil nevins tailgate party chargers/steelers game

got to www.scottandbrtv.com

go to clips...then selt phil nevins tailgate party

enjoy

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:28 pm

Well Renteria for Marte straight up is official. I just hope the Sox agreed to pay part of Renteria's salary since he's making 10 mil. and the Braves wouldn't give Raffy that much.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:44 pm

Renteria for Marte is a shocker. I don't understand the move at all. You have a grade A prospect who just turned 22 and has a fresh arbitration clock. He didn't have a great trial in the Majors but that was a very small sample. Chipper Jones is not a good defensive 3B and there's nothing in his minor league stats to suggest Betemit will hit enough to hold down the corner.

Renteria is coming off of two straight bad years. How is 2-3 mediocre months from a 21 year old rookie more indicative of future performance than 2 years of decline from a veteran SS?

If Renteria can return to 2003 level, he's a decent replacement for Furcal for a couple of years. But that's the absolute best case for the Braves. The worst case is that Marte becomes a solid pro for the next 15 years.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:56 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:Chipper Jones is not a good defensive 3B and there's nothing in his minor league stats to suggest Betemit will hit enough to hold down the corner.

The only problem is that I'll disagree with BOTH of those statements. Since Chipper moved back to 3rd after his trial in LF (when the Braves signed Vinny Castilla) he's been outstanding at 3rd. He has reduced his errors and he has improved his range. Glen Hubbard has done a masterful job turning both Marcus Giles and Chipper Jones into dependable and actually very good defensive players.

Also...in his first full season in the majors all Betemit did is hit .305 in 259 at bats. He's not gonna hit with the power of a traditional corner infielder but that's not what he would play if they hadn't traded for Renteria.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:58 pm

I agree completely, sf.

Now which 3B gets moved by the Red Sox--Youkilis, Lowell, or Marte? I guess they could move Youkilis to 1B, but his offense would be pretty anemic for that position.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:10 pm

BOS must have been thinking like this: Renteria has been struggling the past 2 seasons. He leads the majors with 30 errors, had 8 homers, his avg is just .276 with 70 RBI's and for that he's being payed 10 per. With a younger player like Marte and equal numbers ( tripple A league) Bosox are taking a chance.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:14 pm

The Red Sox are setting themselves up for a BAD year next year with a ton of young players coming into the mix and exploding in 2007 with Lester, Papelbon, Beckett as the three headed monster and the lineup with Pedrioa, Marte, and Ellsbury in Center in the ver near future.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:26 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:The only problem is that I'll disagree with BOTH of those statements. Since Chipper moved back to 3rd after his trial in LF (when the Braves signed Vinny Castilla) he's been outstanding at 3rd. He has reduced his errors and he has improved his range. Glen Hubbard has done a masterful job turning both Marcus Giles and Chipper Jones into dependable and actually very good defensive players.

Also...in his first full season in the majors all Betemit did is hit .305 in 259 at bats. He's not gonna hit with the power of a traditional corner infielder but that's not what he would play if they hadn't traded for Renteria.

You watch more Braves games than me so I'll have to take your word re: Chipper's defense. Fielding stats aren't great metrics but he's below average in both range factor and fielding percentage. And you didn't see Brooks Robinson get moved to LF during the prime of his career.

Betemit had a nice half year but he never hit like that in the minors. He could end up having a nice Jose Vizcaino-type of career but that's about it for upside.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:41 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:And you didn't see Brooks Robinson get moved to LF during the prime of his career.

Funny you mention that...Chipper has been known to do things for the team, to improve the team. They had a chance to pick up Vinny Castilla a few years ago when he was still in his prime. Chipper offered to move position to accomodate the signing. Now he just restructured his deal and extended it so that the Braves can spend more money this year, essentially saving them 7 mil. a year. So by comparing Robinson and Chipper just because Chipper moved to left field is ridiculous. Chipper probably will never win a gold glove, but he's improved tremendously in the past 2 years. I used to cringe when guys hit shots to the hot corner...I don't do that since Chipper moved back to third.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:46 pm

Db: We'll give you Edgardo Alfonso's salary for a pack of sunflower seeds

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:51 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:Db: We'll give you Edgardo Alfonso's salary for a pack of sunflower seeds

You have no idea how much I like sunflower seeds...as long as their are David's Ranch, you've got a deal.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:00 pm

Another thing that's funny about this off season is that Andruw's name hasn't come up in trade rumors. I guess that's what happens when you lead the league in homers.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:02 pm

From the AP Article about the Red Sox plans with Marte

The move left Boston without a shortstop, but Red Sox senior adviser Bill Lajoie denied a much-rumored deal that would wheel Marte to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for Julio Lugo. Lajoie said he expected to see Marte play for the Red Sox this year, putting him in the outfield or first base if it's necessary to get his bat in the lineup.

Badger_Fan · Post by **Badger_Fan** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:12 pm

Rumor in Minny is that the Twins are in on a trade for Hank Blalock that would involve JC Romero and Scott Baker (#2 pitching prospect in the system). They've also started talks with Frank Thomas and Mike Piazza about the DH spot.

If they could get Blalock and sign Piazza, with the already-completed trade for Luis Castillo would set them up pretty well. They would have Mauer, Morneau, Castillo, insert shortstop here, Blalock, Shannon Stewart, Hunter, Jason Kuble and Piazza/Thomas in the lineup and would hang on to one of the best pitching prospects in baseball in Francisco Liriano.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:23 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:I know the BJs have been really generous this off season, but they didn't give up all those guys for Overbay. I've seen some reports of Hillenbrand & Bush, others with Gross, Bush and a minor leaguer. We'll have to see who's in the deal when it's announced on Thursday AM.

Bush has been pretty average in the Majors but I'd like to see if Mike Maddux can do anything with him.

It ended up being:

Overbay and a minor leaguer to Toronto
Gabe Gross, David Bush & LHP Zach Jackson to Milwaukee

I like this deal better than the one with Hillenbrand. The Brewers already have a bunch of bad 3B, and I'd rather see Prince Fielder out there every day. Gross is nothing special but I hope Bush will turn out the be the key to the deal.

CincyKid · Post by **CincyKid** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:37 pm

Dave wrote:I agree completely, sf.

Now which 3B gets moved by the Red Sox--Youkilis, Lowell, or Marte? I guess they could move Youkilis to 1B, but his offense would be pretty anemic for that position.

there still talk that marte could still be dealt to the devil rays for aubrey huff and or baez seeing as the redsox had coveted huff for awhile now

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:39 pm

CincyKid wrote:
Dave wrote:I agree completely, sf.

Now which 3B gets moved by the Red Sox--Youkilis, Lowell, or Marte? I guess they could move Youkilis to 1B, but his offense would be pretty anemic for that position.
there still talk that marte could still be dealt to the devil rays for aubrey huff and or baez seeing as the redsox had coveted huff for awhile now

Or for Lugo if the Rays asking price isn't still ridiculous. At least the Braves traded Marte for a player with a track record. Lugo has had one good year.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:56 pm

If the Twins trade Baker instead of Lohse, I'll be disappointed. It just doesn't make sense for such a frugal organization to trade away a promising player (put up better numbers than Lohse during his big league stint) with a few years of serfdom left instead of Lohse, who'll probably get $4 mil in arbitration.

Bartlett should be the Twins shortstop, with Castro as the backup plan.

Blalock's home/away splits scare me, plus he's an impact left handed bat in a lineup that is already too lefty-heavy.

In other Red Sox 3B news, they offered Mueller arbitration.