sportdan30 wrote:The Cards are still interested in Jones. Gammons is also reporting that a deal between the Reds and Cards might go down by the end of the week. Marquis for either Kearns or Pena.
I would really like to see the Twins get involved in a trade with the Reds. They could offer up Lohse (who looks better and better at his arbitration rate based on Burnett's deal), Romero, and/or some AA or lower prospect. Who knows what that would get in return. Pena is an erratic bat, but he has more power than anyone else on the Twins roster.
If they only sign someone like Joe Randa (and his inflated Reds' numbers from last year), I'm going to be disappointed.
Did they overpay for him? Of course, but every player in the league is overpaid. The guy will only be 35 at the end of his contract and is left handed which is always a plus.
I mean really, which player, no matter which sports we are talking about, you guys don't consider it as overpaid?
Fans of teams that lose a bidding war for a player they want/need tend to rapidly go with the "I'm glad my team didn't overpay for him" excuse.
Wish IMO is pretty silly considering most MLB players are vastly overpaid.
Then of course, there are those who think 10-13 mil for an average Carlos Beltran is a steal.
sportdan30 wrote:
Those are not excuses. Those are facts.
Again Dan, abusurd contracts are abound in sports.
Blue Jays WANTED him, and they got it.
They did what they had to do. Does the guy deserve that kind of cash? No, but the market dictated his worth. Blue Jays stepped up and got their man.
Who knows, maybe the guy FINALLY lives up to his potential and then no one will be talking about how much he makes. But how can you know if you don't take the chance?
I'm pretty sure LOTS of Cardinals fans would have loved to see if the guy could flourish with them. Now, they'll never know.
The problem with the Blue Jays, Javy, is that they are clearly trying to buy players to prove to their fans that they want to win. When teams do that, they eventually run out of money and have to have fire sales a la the Marlins every 5-7 years. Only the bigger market teams like the Yankees/Red Sox/Mets/Dodgers can afford to do that over long periods of time. The Blue Jays will hemmorage money and eventually have to trade the two guys they just signed. The process will only be sped up when the Blue Jays fail to contend in an already ridiculously tough AL East.
sportdan30 wrote:
Those are not excuses. Those are facts.
Again Dan, abusurd contracts are abound in sports.
Blue Jays WANTED him, and they got it.
They did what they had to do. Does the guy deserve that kind of cash? No, but the market dictated his worth. Blue Jays stepped up and got their man.
Who knows, maybe the guy FINALLY lives up to his potential and then no one will be talking about how much he makes. But how can you know if you don't take the chance?
I'm pretty sure LOTS of Cardinals fans would have loved to see if the guy could flourish with them. Now, they'll never know.
I'm sure you're right. There probably are a lot of Cardinal fans who wished he would have signed with St. Louis. One local radio sports show host in particular has been promoting the heck out of Burnett. Can't wait to hear his take this afternoon. But for the kind of money he signed for, he better win 17-20 games consistently. As someone posted on OS, they Blue Jays sure are spending a lot of money to not make the playoffs.
dbdynsty25 wrote:The problem with the Blue Jays, Javy, is that they are clearly trying to buy players to prove to their fans that they want to win. When teams do that, they eventually run out of money and have to have fire sales a la the Marlins every 5-7 years. Only the bigger market teams like the Yankees/Red Sox/Mets/Dodgers can afford to do that over long periods of time. The Blue Jays will hemmorage money and eventually have to trade the two guys they just signed. The process will only be sped up when the Blue Jays fail to contend in an already ridiculously tough AL East.
Well the Jays have been for sometime, a very frugal franchise.
I'm pretty sure their fans are excited that ownership is finally throwing some $$ around.
And let's remember, the Jays were 80-82 last year in a VERY tough AL East. The least ownership could have done is try to add some pieces to a team that was at least competitive last year.
sportdan30 wrote:
Those are not excuses. Those are facts.
Again Dan, abusurd contracts are abound in sports.
Blue Jays WANTED him, and they got it.
They did what they had to do. Does the guy deserve that kind of cash? No, but the market dictated his worth. Blue Jays stepped up and got their man.
Who knows, maybe the guy FINALLY lives up to his potential and then no one will be talking about how much he makes. But how can you know if you don't take the chance?
I'm pretty sure LOTS of Cardinals fans would have loved to see if the guy could flourish with them. Now, they'll never know.
I'm sure you're right. There probably are a lot of Cardinal fans who wished he would have signed with St. Louis. One local radio sports show host in particular has been promoting the heck out of Burnett. Can't wait to hear his take this afternoon. But for the kind of money he signed for, he better win 17-20 games consistently. As someone posted on OS, they Blue Jays sure are spending a lot of money to not make the playoffs.
I'm in no way predicting the Jays will make the playoffs, but geez who knows. This is sports, NOTHING is written in stone.
If the team with the most talent(or most bloated payroll) will be garanteed a championship, the Yankees would have won the last 8 WS in a row.
P. Ricciardi has done a masterful job with the Jays and in so his contract has been rewarded until 2010. The Rogers family stepped up last year with signings like C. Koskie & Hillenbrandt and wanted to have a real contending team with a core of young players led with people like V. Wells, O. Hudson, A. Rios and R. Halladay, but pitching was their main down fall.
How can you compete with the likes of BOS and NY if you don't take a chance and spend some cash? How will the fans ever come back to see the team of the early 90's when they won the WS 2 years ina row, when they had players like J. Carter and R. Alomar, 2 of their top payed go to guys.
The problem with the MLB is that the market is so inflated and it's easy for a player and his agent to demand X amount of money based on his numbers and past season's perfomance because that's what the market is worth.
Well, where's the leverage for owners and managers? There should a be a clause where an owner can say, fine I' ll pay you 10 million a year if you can have at least 18 wins and if you don't, well you 're worth only 6 per. It's all about numbers in baseball. Players can brag about their hitting avg and wins and losses for pitchers, but the only number an owner wants to hear are the number of W's and eventually the WS.
I think the problem with Toronto's two big contracts is the length, not the dollars. Five year deals to pitchers is pretty unusual. A lot can happen in a half a decade. Chances are that Ryan and Burnett will both miss time due to injury. Although if St. Louis really offered 4 years @ $12M/yr., that's not a huge difference between his final 5 year/$55M deal with the BJs. For what it's worth, the last SP given a five year deal was Chan Ho Park.
I'm glad to see the Giants finally make an offseason move. But Latroy Hawkins for Steve Kline is like trading an orange peel for an apple core. Latroy, we hardly knew ye. Steve Kline and a few months worth of crummy performances from Hawkins isn't much to show for Aardsma and Jerome Williams.
Reported that the reds trade Sean Casey for left handed pitching today.
This is a great move for the reds:
1. Free up 8.5 million in salary
2. Can move dunn to 1st and keep the young corner outfiled in tact.
3. Get a young pitcher who can be a solid 2-3 starter in the big league level.
Any pittsburg fans, you are getting a great great 1b. Almost a guarentee .300. When his shoulder is healthy he can easy put up 20-25 Hr and he never strikes out. More importantly, he is a real class act. Good trade in my book for both sides.
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him."
Yeah, this seems to be a good move for both teams. The Reds free up a big contract for this season, and the Pirates get the bat they wanted without giving up any of their top pitching prospects. Casey is very popular in Pittsburgh, the fans have always wanted to see him on the Pirates. Plus, he says he loves playing in PNC Park, and his career numbers there show why.
I wouldn't necessarily call Williams a two or three starter, he's probably more along the lines of a four starter. He wasn't even supposed to be in the Pirates five man rotation coming out of spring training last year, but ended up being their most dependable guy all season long. He's a likeable guy though, and his best years should be in front of him.
Thats good to hear about Williams. I would now love for the Reds to move Wily Mo for some more pitching. I also read somewhere that the Cubs love A.Kearns, and could maybe might give up R. Hill to get him. That just gave me an errection. But i would rather have Kearns than Wily Mo.
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him."
Dave wrote:DB, what's your opinion of Andy Marte? His name has surfaced in some Twins rumors--I like it better than Average Joe Randa, that's for sure.
Marte has been the Braves top hitting prospect for the last two years now. When he was up last year he looked overmatched. Not sure if that has tarnished his standing as one of the blue chips that the Braves have in their system, but it's certainly possible. With Wilson Betemit, the Braves have a future 3b if they want...but then again, Betemit has come up as a SS and he may need to be playing everyday this year now that Furcal is gone. I like Marte though, he's got a very nice and compact swing for a big guy so he shouldn't strike out too much...but then again, he certainly looked foolish more than once this past year when he was filling in for Chipper when he got hurt.
Who did you hear the Braves were inquiring about where Marte's name came up?
I was surprised to see Andy Marte's name come up in trade rumors. He just turned 22 and had a pretty good year at Richmond. He's shown pretty decent plate discipline in the minors so his cup of coffee performance year may be a small sample abberation.
The ridiculous free agent contracts would seem to make it more important than ever to hang on to young guys who aren't arbitration or free agent eligible yet.
I like the Williams-Casey deal but looking at Williams 2005 stat line, I'd be concerned about 20 HR allowed in 138.2 IP. GAB will punish a pitcher who's prone to gopher balls.
EDiddy wrote:Reported that the reds trade Sean Casey for left handed pitching today.
This is a great move for the reds:
1. Free up 8.5 million in salary
2. Can move dunn to 1st and keep the young corner outfiled in tact.
3. Get a young pitcher who can be a solid 2-3 starter in the big league level.
Any pittsburg fans, you are getting a great great 1b. Almost a guarentee .300. When his shoulder is healthy he can easy put up 20-25 Hr and he never strikes out. More importantly, he is a real class act. Good trade in my book for both sides.
agreed 100% sorry to see such a class act leave the clubhouse but this was a very good move for both clubs
Apparently Pierre is going to the Cubbies. Enjoy the noodle armed outfielder Cub fans. You thought Patterson was a disaster in center. At least Pierre can go get it and hit, but he's not going to have a single assist from CF. LOL.
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Dec 6 - According to ESPN.com's Jayson Stark, the Marlins have tentatively agreed on a four-player deal that would send Juan Pierre to the Cubs for three young pitchers -- Sergio Mitre and prospects Renyel Pinto and Ricky Nolasco. The deal is pending physicals examinations.
And Renteria to the Braves? Eesh...not sure I like that. Not for Marte anyway. I'd rather have Lugo I think.
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Dec 6 - The Red Sox are moving aggressively to trade shortstop Edgar Renteria, the Boston Globe reports. Renteria has fallen out of favor in Boston after a 30-error season and could be headed to the Braves as part of a three-way deal with the Devil Rays. The Sox would receive D-Rays shortstop Julio Lugo while Tampa Bay would get prospects from Atlanta, presumably highly regarded third baseman Andy Marte and another player.
I don't think the Williams-Casey deal is going to work out well for Cincy. That HR line is scary for a guy who has to pitch there.
I think it helps push the market for Kyle Lohse higher, though. He put up similar stats (but in the AL), eats innings, and can have great stuff--I would have gladly given him up for Marte.
Why do I feel like the Twins just keep inching towards Joe Randa?
I don't think the Williams-Casey deal is going to work out well for Cincy. That HR line is scary for a guy who has to pitch there.
From Williams individual success, it may not. But the salary saved may allow them to pick up some more pitching. Also, if this allows them to keep Kearns and Pena, and one or both turn out to be solid ML players, this trade would be play a key part in that.
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him."
Renteria to Braves? Vina, Kline updates
POST-DISPATCH AND WIRE REPORTS
12/07/2005
The Braves are working on a three-team trade that would send ex-Cards shortstop Edgar Renteria from Boston to Atlanta, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
Atlanta would send a top prospect, probably third baseman Andy Marte, to Tampa Bay, and the Devil Rays would send shortstop Julio Lugo to the Red Sox. The Braves lost free-agent shortstop Rafael Furcal to the Dodgers over the weekend.
Renteria, 29, is coming off a season in which he batted .276 for the Red Sox with a career-high 30 errors, career-low nine stolen bases and only eight homers, his fewest since 1998.
He won Gold Gloves in 2002 and '03 for St. Louis, where he spent six seasons and picked up three Silver Slugger awards as the top-hitting shortstop in the National League.
Vina coming back?
The market for second basemen became a little more crowded as ex-Cardinal Gold Glove second baseman Fernando Vina confirmed that he is seeking a return to the game.
Vina, 36, departed the Cardinals as a free agent after the 2003 season to sign a two-year, $6 million contract with the Detroit Tigers. Hamstring and knee injuries cost him most of the '04 season and all of last season.
Vina said Tuesday that he is willing to accept a minor-league contract with an invitation to major-league camp to show a team he still can play.
"I'm able to do everything," Vina said. "I'm ready to go. I'll go in and prove myself in spring training in any way. All I need is a chance ... I know I've got a lot of fire left in me and can still be a productive guy."
Giants-Orioles trade
Former Cardinals lefthander Steve Kline was acquired by San Francisco from Baltimore for righthander LaTroy Hawkins and cash.
Kline was 2-4 with a 4.28 ERA last season.
Hawkins was acquired by the Giants on May 28 from the Chicago Cubs. He went a combined 2-8 with six saves and a 3.83 ERA.
Reds-Pirates trade
Cincinnati reached a preliminary agreement to trade first baseman Sean Casey to Pittsburgh for left hander Dave Williams.
The deal is subject to players passing physicals, an official on a team involved in the trade said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the swap had not been finalized.
Casey batted .312 last year with nine homers and 58 RBIs. Williams was 10-11 with a 4.41 ERA in 25 starts last year.
Sorry for the long article post above. Wow, I can't imagine Renteria being traded to the Braves. The Red Sox are willing to give up on him after one mediocre year? In any case, I could see him doing very well in Atlanta.
3b is still a hole in tampa