OT: How could the state of Louisiana let this happen?

[Jackdog]

Here's a warning from 2002: http://americanradioworks.publicradio.o ... cane1.html


Here's one from 04:
http://www.easttennessean.com/media/pap ... 9652.shtml

Damn this is all news to me. I have never heard about this problem until a week ago. Some heads need to roll. How in the hell could they let this happen? They should have cried from the mountain tops until something was done.
The Governor and Mayor should have camped out at the f***in White House until money was released to fix the problem. Highyway projects should have been put off until the problem was fixed. You cannot tell me something could not have been done. It's downright lazy ass ignorance and looking the other way that has cost thousands their lives and millions their homes.

WTF??

[HouOilers]

They tried but funds to Louisiana have been cut by the current administration due to the war on terror. And it's not just Louisiana, it's mostly all state funding from the federal gov has been cut. Now if the mayor and gov came to Bush and said Akmed is gonna set off a bomb in the superdome, that f***in cavalry would have been there yesterday.

And of course, none of those guys in the state, local, federal government thought it would happen. Its human nature, you never expect the worst.

But we all know the easy answer don't we. all Government and politicans are corrupt. None of that aid before a tragedy reallly goes to help the people at the end. The politicans would have taken their cuts and nothing would have gotten done anyway.

[blueduke]

They've known this could happen for decades. LA as well as Washington rolled the dice and time and time again it came up snakeyes. This time they lost. And man did they ever lose. State, local, and federal gov't couldn't look any worse than they do now

[Teal]

They tried but funds to Louisiana have been cut by the current administration due to the war on terror. And it's not just Louisiana, it's mostly all state funding from the federal gov has been cut. Now if the mayor and gov came to Bush and said Akmed is gonna set off a bomb in the superdome, that f***in cavalry would have been there yesterday.

And of course, none of those guys in the state, local, federal government thought it would happen. Its human nature, you never expect the worst.

But we all know the easy answer don't we. all Government and politicans are corrupt. None of that aid before a tragedy reallly goes to help the people at the end. The politicans would have taken their cuts and nothing would have gotten done anyway.

When in doubt, point the finger elsewhere, eh? That's precisely what the mayor of NO is doing, and that certain emporer has no clothes. Neither does the governor.

The FEMA chief should lose his job over this, for sure, but it ain't all the fault of the feds. Professionals have been saying for years that the levees aren't worth a damn (no pun intended-seriously!). When you live eight feet beneath sea level, you'd better pay attention.

The mayor and the governor should shut the hell up and look in a mirror...

[Jackdog]

Damn guys. I don't know how anyone could go to sleep at night knowing that this s*** was bound to happen.

Scumbag politicians. Now they all want answers. They are all grandstanding and poiting fingers when they knew this was going to happen someday. All the while the people they have sworn to serve are dying on f***in I-10 and the Superdome. The current system of goverment we have is our country's worst enemy.

[Teal]

Damn guys. I don't know how anyone could go to sleep at night knowing that this s*** was bound to happen.

Scumbag politicians. Now they all want answers. They are all grandstanding and poiting fingers when they knew this was going to happen someday. All the while the people they have sworn to serve are dying on f***in I-10 and the Superdome. This goverment is our country's worst enemy.

Now, I'm in full agreement with that one. Calling for investigations and bullshit like that. What a load of crap. I say get off your asses, Washington, roll up your sleeves, and get waist deep in the s*** and corpses if you want to make a difference.

Whining, bitching and grandstanding get us nowhere. And that's all the government has been doing, at the local, state, and federal levels. The only people making a difference are the soldiers and 'lowly' commoners those 'scumbags', as you so aptly called them, claim to represent, who are down there in the muck and the s*** and the rotting bodies, trying to help...

[blueduke]

The only people I see blamless in this is the New Orleans Police Dept. Man it would take big balls trying to restore order in the mayhem they were in. Not to mention the fact they probably knew their homes were gone and some probably didn't know about their own family's condition

[JRod]

Jack,
With all due respect, you need to do some research on government funding. States sometimes simply do not have the money to fund massive project like renovating the damns and levies in NO. That's the job of the federal government. The pricetag for renovation was enormous. I don't have the figure but it was in the billions. I'm sure that would have sucked up the entire Louisana state budget.

Now let's also talk about how the system works. States simply do not have the money to deal with crisis managment. Hence FEMA and other government entities. When a Governor declares a state of emergency, she is entitled to access Federal dollars. This frees up another level of aid.

There are two issues here, the first is problem that was ignored and the second is recovery. They are not the same. Funding was cut for projects to enhance NO protection. And the second was the Federal government dropping the ball.

[dbdynsty25]

With all due respect, you need to do some research on government funding. States sometimes simply do not have the money to fund massive project like renovating the damns and levies in NO. That's the job of the federal government. The pricetag for renovation was enormous. I don't have the figure but it was in the billions. I'm sure that would have sucked up the entire Louisana state budget.

Is it 100 billion? If not, then it would have been worth it. The loss of life and the billions of dollars it's going to cost to rebuild NO will dwarf whatever cost would have been needed to retrofit those damn levies. I think the state budget is pretty much blown for fiscal year '05, '06 and on through the next 5 to 10 years most likely...all because they didn't want to spend a few bucks to protect their citizens. Nice.

[Jared]

I don't remember where I saw it, but they put the price of fulling shoring up the whole system correctly (which would involve rerouting the Mississippi a bit, rebuilding levees, etc.) in a way that could withstand a Cat 5 at around 10-15 billion, which is about the cost of the Big Dig in Massachusetts. Local and state governments don't have nearly that kind of money, so they have to rely on the federal government. Even less costly plans that would involve only rebuilding levees would be far outside of any state budgets. So the states have to ask for federal money. Louisiana is always asking for levee money. Clinton increased funding for levee development, Bush made major cuts in it (the Times-Picayune reported that it's likely due to budgetary pressures from the Iraq war and tax cuts).

[F308GTB]

With all due respect, you need to do some research on government funding. States sometimes simply do not have the money to fund massive project like renovating the damns and levies in NO. That's the job of the federal government. The pricetag for renovation was enormous. I don't have the figure but it was in the billions. I'm sure that would have sucked up the entire Louisana state budget.

Is it 100 billion? If not, then it would have been worth it. The loss of life and the billions of dollars it's going to cost to rebuild NO will dwarf whatever cost would have been needed to retrofit those damn levies. I think the state budget is pretty much blown for fiscal year '05, '06 and on through the next 5 to 10 years most likely...all because they didn't want to spend a few bucks to protect their citizens. Nice.

It's easy to play Monday morning QB on this. Would have spending a ton of money to fix things been a good investment considering a $100+ billion loss due to Katrina? Sure. But the odds of New Orleans getting a cat 5 storm and in such a way it would impact the levees were poor. You have to play the odds. If you spend for every maybe, this country would be bankrupt quickly. I can't really fault the federal government. The city, however, should have a tremendous amount of responsibility for this. The mayor should have taken it upon himself to direct all city, school, etc buses and other transport to remove people who couldn't get out. The mayor of NO is trying to disavow himself of any responsibility.

I saw an article in the Japanese paper this morning that Japan is sending researchers to New Orleans. Why? Because they have the same kind of levees and want to learn from the damage to better protect their citizens. Sometimes it sucks being the first on the block to experience something.

[DivotMaker]

It's easy to play Monday morning QB on this. Would have spending a ton of money to fix things been a good investment considering a $100+ billion loss due to Katrina? Sure. But the odds of New Orleans getting a cat 5 storm and in such a way it would impact the levees were poor. You have to play the odds. If you spend for every maybe, this country would be bankrupt quickly. I can't really fault the federal government. The city, however, should have a tremendous amount of responsibility for this. The mayor should have taken it upon himself to direct all city, school, etc buses and other transport to remove people who couldn't get out. The mayor of NO is trying to disavow himself of any responsibility.

I saw an article in the Japanese paper this morning that Japan is sending researchers to New Orleans. Why? Because they have the same kind of levees and want to learn from the damage to better protect their citizens. Sometimes it sucks being the first on the block to experience something.

VERY well said fellow Houstonian....

[rubba19]

They tried but funds to Louisiana have been cut by the current administration due to the war on terror. And it's not just Louisiana, it's mostly all state funding from the federal gov has been cut. Now if the mayor and gov came to Bush and said Akmed is gonna set off a bomb in the superdome, that f***in cavalry would have been there yesterday.

And of course, none of those guys in the state, local, federal government thought it would happen. Its human nature, you never expect the worst.

But we all know the easy answer don't we. all Government and politicans are corrupt. None of that aid before a tragedy reallly goes to help the people at the end. The politicans would have taken their cuts and nothing would have gotten done anyway.

When in doubt, point the finger elsewhere, eh? That's precisely what the mayor of NO is doing, and that certain emporer has no clothes. Neither does the governor.

The FEMA chief should lose his job over this, for sure, but it ain't all the fault of the feds. Professionals have been saying for years that the levees aren't worth a damn (no pun intended-seriously!). When you live eight feet beneath sea level, you'd better pay attention.

The mayor and the governor should shut the hell up and look in a mirror...

Damn, tealboy and I are on the exact same wavelength. Well said.

[Brando70]

The only people I see blamless in this is the New Orleans Police Dept. Man it would take big balls trying to restore order in the mayhem they were in. Not to mention the fact they probably knew their homes were gone and some probably didn't know about their own family's condition

The security problems were IMHO the biggest area where the federal government screwed up.

Funding for hurricane preparation has been toyed with for decades by a variety of governments. Democrats, Republicans, national, local -- like others said, they would cut money because people tend to not address problems until after the problems appear (like airline security). So I certainly don't blame this government for the problem.

However, I would like to think that, post-9/11, our federal government can drop troops on a moments notice anywhere in the US to suppress what we saw happening with the looting. That a quasi-criminal insurgency could happen for several days is just ridiculous. The city should have been locked down immediately.

The other thing that is pissing me off is the "we didn't know this could happen" argument. Now that is complete CYA bullshit. It was common knowledge and, given the initial size and trajectory of Katrina, it seems like we should have had food, water, and basic first aid ready for the Gulf Coast region. That's more FEMA's screw up than Bush's but the general is responsible for his troops (especially when he appoints their leaders).

I am glad to see things have gotten under some control. I hope the rebuilding effort is more competent than the rescue.

[RobVarak]

The only people I see blamless in this is the New Orleans Police Dept. Man it would take big balls trying to restore order in the mayhem they were in. Not to mention the fact they probably knew their homes were gone and some probably didn't know about their own family's condition

Early reports say that as many as several hundred may have turned in their badges, given up or walked off the job. I have a hard time not placing blame on them for abandoning their posts at the time they were most needed. I appreciate the appalling state of affairs in command, communication and transportation, as well as the horrifying prospects that their families faced. But their duty was first and foremost to the city.

I deeply admire those police who remained at their posts and at least attempted to administer order on the limited basis that they could without national guard assistance in those early days.

[DivotMaker]

Some interesting and thought-provoking counterpoints to those who subscribe to the theory that this is all Bush's fault, etc....

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles ... le_id=4797

Another interesting link shwing a video of New Orleans police officers looting at a Walmart with the rest of the looters....

http://www.zippyvideos.com/891102377101 ... in-walmart

[blueduke]

I deeply admire those police who remained at their posts and at least attempted to administer order on the limited basis that they could without national guard assistance in those early days.

Those were the ones I was thinking about.

Speaking of Bush, levess, and cuts:


http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-bloggers/1477201/posts

Somebody is a hypocrite. Could it be you, NYT?

[blueduke]

Some interesting and thought-provoking counterpoints to those who subscribe to the theory that this is all Bush's fault, etc....

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles ... le_id=4797

Another interesting link shwing a video of New Orleans police officers looting at a Walmart with the rest of the looters....

http://www.zippyvideos.com/891102377101 ... in-walmart

Great links you have there, DivotMaker. This from excerpt from the NYT at the American Thinker website really stood out:

Congress has a $14 billion proposal designed to reverse this process, to restore the wetlands that provide buffers against storms. This would also help keep the city of New Orleans from continually sinking further below sea level. But Congress has chosen other big projects as worthier of its attention. The Big Dig, a $15 billion project to bury two miles of a highway in central Boston was the favored public works project that President Clinton awarded Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy

Now look who is bawling about Bush levee cuts causing all this

FEMA under Clinton:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005 ... 4914.shtml

[RobVarak]

Looks like there may be some other factors at work in the analysis of levee spending other than Iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02462.html

[brendanrfoley]

This is not a post desgined to blast the Republicans/Democrats, or choose one side or the other...

But how can people blame the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana for not renovating the levee system? That's a federal project, one the Army Corp. of Engineers has been begging to do for 10 years.

As for FEMA, it most certainly dropped the ball. But at the same time, it has seen extensive budet cuts within this administration. But cuts or not, FEMA was very slow to respond.

The government shortcomings that led to this disaster becoming what it has took years to fester. I think it's fair to say Bush's administration dropped the ball. As did Clinton's, Bush, and Regan before it.

[RobVarak]

Interesting info on the loss of the police communications net:

http://www.fcw.com/article90541-08-31-05-Web

And more quality emergency response from the State of Louisiana. I don't know about calling Major Garrett a "star reporter" but this is a big story and deeply unfortunate.

The Red Cross had a sizeable amount of supplies pre-positioned outside of NO immediately before the storm hit, but the State gov't refused to allow them access to the Superdome and Convention Center in the days after the storm.

http://www.radioblogger.com/

[DivotMaker]

And more quality emergency response from the State of Louisiana. I don't know about calling Major Garrett a "star reporter" but this is a big story and deeply unfortunate.

The Red Cross had a sizeable amount of supplies pre-positioned outside of NO immediately before the storm hit, but the State gov't refused to allow them access to the Superdome and Convention Center in the days after the storm.

http://www.radioblogger.com/

Wow....FACTS are beginning to surface to replace partisan speculation...what a concept! Thanks for the links Rob...

[Brando70]

And more quality emergency response from the State of Louisiana. I don't know about calling Major Garrett a "star reporter" but this is a big story and deeply unfortunate.

The Red Cross had a sizeable amount of supplies pre-positioned outside of NO immediately before the storm hit, but the State gov't refused to allow them access to the Superdome and Convention Center in the days after the storm.

http://www.radioblogger.com/

Wow....FACTS are beginning to surface to replace partisan speculation...what a concept! Thanks for the links Rob...

Facts? Are you shitting me? "Facts" are not Bush teabagger/blogger Hugh Hewitt interviewing one f***in Fox news reporter, who is clearly not speaking in a professional capacity during this interview. He may very well be right, but I just checked the Fox News site and can't find any mention of this "breaking" story. I tried Google news with "red cross blocked" and all I saw were links about this interview and Hugh Hewitt's article about it in The Weekly Standard. So if this is such a huge story, where's the coverage?

I have no doubt that state and local officials are going to swing big time for the Katrina response. But you know what? My opinion on that matter means jack squat because I am not a Louisiana voter. What I am already seeing are the attack dogs of the brave and noble president getting ready to nail the locals to the wall, so as to deflect criticism from a man who was strumming a guitar and eating cake on August 30th instead of looking concerned about a giant hurricane heading for the Gulf. Ask yourself this question: did Bush looked concerned about NO before the s*** hit the fan about the lawlessness down there?

[RobVarak]

Facts? Are you shitting me? "Facts" are not Bush teabagger/blogger Hugh Hewitt interviewing one f***in Fox news reporter, who is clearly not speaking in a professional capacity during this interview. He may very well be right, but I just checked the Fox News site and can't find any mention of this "breaking" story. I tried Google news with "red cross blocked" and all I saw were links about this interview and Hugh Hewitt's article about it in The Weekly Standard. So if this is such a huge story, where's the coverage?

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

Apparently Karl Rove and his army of mind-altering nanobots has gotten to the Red Cross too. Or maybe it's one of the Fox News-trained agents trained in Paul Wolfowitz's secret estate to infiltrate humanitarian NGO's.

[Brando70]

Facts? Are you shitting me? "Facts" are not Bush teabagger/blogger Hugh Hewitt interviewing one f***in Fox news reporter, who is clearly not speaking in a professional capacity during this interview. He may very well be right, but I just checked the Fox News site and can't find any mention of this "breaking" story. I tried Google news with "red cross blocked" and all I saw were links about this interview and Hugh Hewitt's article about it in The Weekly Standard. So if this is such a huge story, where's the coverage?

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

Apparently Karl Rove and his army of mind-altering nanobots has gotten to the Red Cross too. Or maybe it's one of the Fox News-trained agents trained in Paul Wolfowitz's secret estate to infiltrate humanitarian NGO's.

Notice I didn't say the story wasn't true. I disagreed with linking to a partisan blogger interviewing a partisan reporter as somehow being a fact. You provided the kind of link I was looking for.