LANCE!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:50 pm

The greatest cyclist of our generation completed a mind-boggling seventh consecutive Tour de France victory today. This guy clearly is one of the most inspirational, focused, committed and dominant athletes in history.

ALLEZ LANCE!

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:08 pm

An amazing athlete and, as you said, truly inspirational.

Watching him lay it all on the line yesterday was a true treat, an all-time great putting in a determined effort.

I laugh when I hear critics say he's not an athlete because "he's just riding a bike," yet acting like someone who throws a ball into the air and runs around is instantly better. But I digress...

He's brought the sport so many people who would otherwise not paid any attention to cycling. Wonder how many will stick around next year? I must say that OLN's coverage is compelling. Endurance sports don't really make for good TV, but they managed to make it work.

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:10 pm

Time to start cheering for a new American cyclist, and I recommend going to the other end of the alphabet - Z, as in Dave Zabriske. He's the only American cyclist to ever get a stage win in the 3 major tours (Tour, Giro, Vuelta). He can time trial like a mother which means if he can learn not to crash in the team time trials he'll be one heck of a major tour rider. His solo breakaway win of some 100 miles in a stage in last year's Vuelta was perhaps the most impressive ride by any American cyclist ever.

I just hope that in 2 years time Armstrong doesn't decide to race Masters in Texas. I'll have zero chance!

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:44 pm

A legend in his sport.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:55 pm

pk500 wrote:The greatest cyclist of our generation completed a mind-boggling seventh consecutive Tour de France victory today. This guy clearly is one of the most inspirational, focused, committed and dominant athletes in history.

ALLEZ LANCE!

Take care,
PK

No doubt! Amazing feat.

I second......... ALLEZ LANCE!

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:57 pm

JackDog wrote:
pk500 wrote:The greatest cyclist of our generation completed a mind-boggling seventh consecutive Tour de France victory today. This guy clearly is one of the most inspirational, focused, committed and dominant athletes in history.

ALLEZ LANCE!

Take care,
PK
No doubt! Amazing feat.

I second......... ALLEZ LANCE!

3rd Me on that....

They should change the name of the event though...Tour De Freedom..

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:40 pm

They were talking about that. Cycling is very low as far as Americans following it.

Lower than soccer, lower maybe than bowling.

But Armstrong transcends his sport in terms of his endorsement opportunities, probably because of his story.

He may be able to do commercials for years after he retires from competition.

Maybe if another American goes on a long streak, Americans will continue to pay attention to the sport. But otherwise...

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:04 pm

F308GTB wrote:Time to start cheering for a new American cyclist, and I recommend going to the other end of the alphabet - Z, as in Dave Zabriske. He's the only American cyclist to ever get a stage win in the 3 major tours (Tour, Giro, Vuelta). He can time trial like a mother which means if he can learn not to crash in the team time trials he'll be one heck of a major tour rider. His solo breakaway win of some 100 miles in a stage in last year's Vuelta was perhaps the most impressive ride by any American cyclist ever.

I just hope that in 2 years time Armstrong doesn't decide to race Masters in Texas. I'll have zero chance!

James:

How is Zabriske in the mountains? We never got a chance to see him in the high mountains in his first TdF.

Take care,
PK

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:03 pm

pk500 wrote: How is Zabriske in the mountains? We never got a chance to see him in the high mountains in his first TdF.

We haven't really been able to see him in any mountains but he has been riding as a domestique for CSC so far. But the stats on him suggest that he should be nothing less than a GC contender: 148 lbs at 6 feet. Compare that with what Armstrong is and you can see that based on the time trial abilities he obviously has good overall power, but the low weight will help him in the mountains. He came in 3rd (20 seconds behind Basso) in the final TT in the Giro which featured a significant climb, and the TT he won by 17 seconds over Basso also featured a little climb (5% for 6k). His problem is being on Team CSC. As long as he's there he'll always be slotted in the rear until he can prove himself more. It's tough breaking through with such a strong team. It easier to turn a great TT specialist, particularly one who is lightweight, into a climber than the other way around. Physiologically the slow twitch muscles required for time trialing are what help riders get off the front in the long climbs.

maddoc1979 · Post by **maddoc1979** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:43 pm

wco81 wrote:
Lower than soccer, lower maybe than bowling.

Funny you mention that...I believe the NHL had lower than or equal to the TV ratings than the PBA when ESPN aired games two years ago. I don't think cycling will ever become too popular here in the states, which is a shame given that so many people learn to ride bikes early on in life here. I think the American attention span is too short to follow a 3 week long race. Unless there's another compelling story like Lance's, not too many people will care. For my part, I love riding. If you've ever ridden in a peloton, you truly start to understand how much fun cycling can be. Cycling in a group of 20-25 people is just a different world than trying to ride alone.

Doc

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:06 pm

maddoc1979 wrote:I think the American attention span is too short to follow a 3 week long race.

Not only is the collective attention span too short for a 3wk long race, it is also too short for the length of individual stages. It was funny hearing people talk about how Lance was struggling since he wasn't winning any stages. They didn't understand why he wouldn't go flat out every stage.

Most people who follow Lance do so by reading the newspaper or updates on the internet. I would say it is by far the most popular sporting event that is followed that way.

But then again, who knows. I don't know how people can dedicate 4 hours straight every week for NASCAR, but they obviously do it.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:14 pm

You gotta tip your cap to Lance. Stud.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:30 pm

I couldn't believe when I heard a sportsguy on FoxSports or espn or something say that Lance wasn't in the same league as a Jordan, because he rides a bike. This coming from a jerkwad who obviously never rode one without a little bell and streamers hanging from the handlebars.

Armstrong deserves all the accolades that are accorded to him. Way to go!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:51 pm

As I told my 6-year-old daughter as we watched the Tour today, "Honey, 30 years from now hopefully we'll be watching the Tour together after a nice ride together, and we'll say: 'Remember watching Lance's last Tour in '05? Remember how amazing he was?"

Armstrong is that iconic. He will be the reference point for the Tour for generations. Eddy Merckx was a more dominant, more complete overall rider, and Lance will admit that, but Americans and a lot of the world only care about the Tour, as it is clearly the biggest bike race in the world.

And there's never been a better Tour rider than Armstrong. And maybe there never will.

I admire Armstrong -- as a single-minded, disciplined athlete and as a cancer survivor -- more than words can describe here.

Take care,
PK

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:56 pm

tealboy03 wrote:I couldn't believe when I heard a sportsguy on FoxSports or espn or something say that Lance wasn't in the same league as a Jordan, because he rides a bike. This coming from a jerkwad who obviously never rode one without a little bell and streamers hanging from the handlebars.

Armstrong deserves all the accolades that are accorded to him. Way to go!

I'd agree with that jerkwad and not because he rides a bike, but the fact that to my knowledge he only rides in one race? There are other races besides the one in France correct?

I'm not trying to knock the guy as I don't really even follow cycling, but if you're going to be touted as the best in your sport, shouldn't you actually be in more then one event?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:02 pm

Danimal wrote:
tealboy03 wrote:I couldn't believe when I heard a sportsguy on FoxSports or espn or something say that Lance wasn't in the same league as a Jordan, because he rides a bike. This coming from a jerkwad who obviously never rode one without a little bell and streamers hanging from the handlebars.

Armstrong deserves all the accolades that are accorded to him. Way to go!
I'd agree with that jerkwad and not because he rides a bike, but the fact that to my knowledge he only rides in one race? There are other races besides the one in France correct?

I'm not trying to knock the guy as I don't really even follow cycling, but if you're going to be touted as the best in your sport, shouldn't you actually be in more then one event?

Armstrong rode in many races per year during his career, especially pre-cancer, including some of the spring classics, the Olympics and the annual World Championships. He was 1993 World Champion. He also rode smaller tours before the Tour de France during his career, such as the Tour duPont, Tour of Georgia, Dauphine Liberie and the Tour of Switzerland.

But Lance only focused on winning the Tour de France and rarely rode any of the other two major Tours. I don't think he has rode the Giro d'Italia or the Vuelta d'Espana for a long time.

But he races more than once per year! That's what you get for listening to the morons on ESPN or Fox Sports Net, who don't know a f*cking thing about any sport that doesn't use a ball.

It takes so much more physical and mental toughness to ride the Tour, let alone win it, than any other event that I think Jordan pales compared to Armstrong. There is no tougher sporting event on the planet than the Tour.

Take care,
PK

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:05 pm

pk500 wrote:But he races more than once per year! That's what you get for listening to the morons on ESPN or Fox Sports Net, who don't know a f*cking thing about any sport that doesn't use a ball.

Take care,
PK

Like I said I don't follow cycling, so what other races did he ride in this year and last year? And did he win them?

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:19 pm

pk500 wrote:
It takes so much more physical and mental toughness to ride the Tour, let alone win it, than any other event that I think Jordan pales compared to Armstrong. There is no tougher sporting event on the planet than the Tour.

Take care,
PK

Here, here!!

TheMightyPuck · Post by **TheMightyPuck** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:22 am

I don't think the "pales in comparison" line is fair. Armstrong is the greatest of his generation in cycling. Others are the greatest in their sports. I personally don't think we need to have an overall "winner". Jordan certainly pales in comparison to Armstrong in terms of money raised for cancer research, but that is, again, something else.

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:41 am

Danimal wrote:
tealboy03 wrote:I couldn't believe when I heard a sportsguy on FoxSports or espn or something say that Lance wasn't in the same league as a Jordan, because he rides a bike. This coming from a jerkwad who obviously never rode one without a little bell and streamers hanging from the handlebars.

Armstrong deserves all the accolades that are accorded to him. Way to go!
I'd agree with that jerkwad and not because he rides a bike, but the fact that to my knowledge he only rides in one race? There are other races besides the one in France correct?

I'm not trying to knock the guy as I don't really even follow cycling, but if you're going to be touted as the best in your sport, shouldn't you actually be in more then one event?

Admittedly, his race calendar was a bit lean this year, but if you look at 2004 you'll realize he was in several events: Tour de France (3 weeks), Tour of Georgia (1 week), Criterium Internationale (multiday), Dauphine Libere (nearly a week), Tour of Murcia, Tour de Languedoc-Roussillon, Tour of the Algarve, Luk Challenge, ...

One thing that really rubs me the wrong way is the mainstream sports media and their view of cycling. The same sports media gives the friggin' "sport" of golf more credit. If golf pros are athlete because they can walk a 3 mile course while someone else carries their clubs, than to me golf ranks right up there with darts, bowling, and curling. Sure they take skill, but athleticism to the degree of cycling?

Part of the problem is that people see these guys as doing nothing but riding a bike and think, "Hey, I can do that." Guess what? I can also shoot a basketball, run, throw a baseball, tackle, swing a golf club, kick a soccer ball, etc. Should that diminish those sports? Hell no.

Probably the hardest one day event in the world would be an Ironman triathlon. The toughest sporting event? Any of the 3 week major tours. Jordan was incredible, but I'd wonder if he could play 4-6 hours a day of ball at the top of his game for 3 straight weeks and only 2 days off.

Cycling is afflicted the same way soccer is here. The sports public doesn't understand the nuanaces and strategy of the sport. I cringed the other day when a local radio guy (who's a big cycling fan) was criticizing soccer. "They have to do something about the low scoring." Americans seem to need to be spoonfed excitement. The touchdown, high scoring NBA games (remember how much criticism the NBA got when some defensive teams dominated), home runs.

Cycling is a niche sport but to belittle it or its participants in relation to other sports simply shows the ignorance of those making those comments.

So is Lance the greatest cyclist of all time? Nope. He didn't ride in enough races to claim that distinction. Is he the greatest Tour de France rider? For now he is.

If you really want to see how great cycling can be, just watch a past Paris-Roubaix race. Probably the most intense road cycling event of the season. Or try to catch a cyclocross race sometime.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:06 am

TheMightyPuck wrote:I don't think the "pales in comparison" line is fair. Armstrong is the greatest of his generation in cycling. Others are the greatest in their sports. I personally don't think we need to have an overall "winner". Jordan certainly pales in comparison to Armstrong in terms of money raised for cancer research, but that is, again, something else.

Fair enough. I didn't put my statement in context. Both are dominant in their respective sports. I just think the Tour is a much, much tougher event physically and mentally than the NBA Playoffs.

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:11 am

Come on, Lance is just RIDING A BIKE!!!

Jordan threw a ball around, that makes him better!!!

F308, you hit the nail on the head.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:14 am

James:

The other thing that causes stick-and-ball commentators to dismiss cycling is just how easy these pros in the Tour make it look when it is physically impossible for all but about 1 percent of the population.

We saw shots of Lance smiling to the cameras and chatting with teammates on some of the flatter stages this year, and some commentators thought: "What a joke. What a joyride!"

Meanwhile, the peloton (main pack) was cruising for miles and miles on some of those flat stages at an average clip of 30 mph. I doubt any of us -- short of you, James -- could go 5 miles on a bike on rolling terrain at 30 mph, let alone do it for 2,000 miles over a three-week period.

The average speed of the Tour this year was 25 mph and change, including the arduous climbs in the Alps and Pyrenees. The next time you think the Tour is easy, hop on a bike and have someone pace you with a car at 25 mph. Keep up for more than 5 miles. Throw in stages with 10-mile climbs at an 8-percent grade. Add in mountain descents where you're approaching 60 mph with no guardrails on the side on slick roads.

Add in the final big day of climbing in the Pyrenees the weekend before last, in which a 130-mile stage had <b>40 miles</b> of climbing, and we're not talking bluffs here. We're talking around four or five climbs of anywhere from 4 to 12 miles, with average gradients ranging from 5-8 percent, all in one day.

I'll never forget Kathy LeMond's response to commentators who moaned that her husband, Greg LeMond, was named SI Sportsman of the Year over Joe Montana back in the late 80s. First, LeMond was shot and nearly died two years before his comeback Tour win. Second, Kathy said she rode in a new minivan as a chase vehicle following her husband in the Tour, and when they were riding in the Alps, the transmission broke on a new minivan, such was the severity of some of the climbs.

The other piece of feeble fodder for many fat stick-and-ball sports commentators is Lycra. Yes, Lycra. I honestly think some of these morons see slightly built men wearing suits of full Lycra and automatically assume they lack toughness because they're not wearing pads or stirrups and socks.

They think Tour riders aren't tough. Tough? Besides the obvious physical and mental requirements needed to just finish the Tour, did you see how many riders hit the deck at 30-40 mph this year, leaving their flesh sizzling on the road, and simply picked themselves up and continued riding? There were no injury timeouts. No trainers rushing them to the sidelines for "treatment" and a shoulder to cry on.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:21 am

F308GTB wrote:If you really want to see how great cycling can be, just watch a past Paris-Roubaix race. Probably the most intense road cycling event of the season. Or try to catch a cyclocross race sometime.

Damn, I still wish Hincapie won Paris-Roubaix this year. He was so close!

Take care,
PK

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:36 am

The lesson, as always: sports commentators are morons. The talent pool is so full of floaties that Stephan A. Smith is getting his own show.

Winning the Tour seven years in a row is one of the greatest athletic accomplishments ever. There is no other event I can think of that requires so much physical and mental toughness for such a continuous stretch of time. The mountain stages may be the most grueling thing athletes endure outside of the Ironman.

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