I'm not ready to give up my XBOX yet

mobiggins · Post by **mobiggins** » Fri May 13, 2005 7:52 pm

Man, I just got my Xbox. And even if I had bought one at launch, I'd still be feeling like this Xbox 360 was coming out too soon. I know I won't be blowing the 300 bucks or so this one will cost on release. What do you guys think?

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Fri May 13, 2005 8:00 pm

Enjoy your xbox, if it has games you want to play, what's the hurry? The only downside is that MS seems to be focused on the 360 once it is out so there will be very little support (game releases) after this year. But such is the circle of life (or game system life cycle).

I myself will probably wait a year or so to see how PS3 is (hey, maybe even Nintendo's Revolution will surprise us!). Unless there is a killer app that I must play, like some obscure music rhythm game developed by 1 guy (extra point to those who know what unreleased game I am referring to).

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Fri May 13, 2005 8:09 pm

It's understandable to want to wait. My anticipation stems from giving up gaming until next gen. I sold off all my consoles last year and other then 30 minutes of Resident Evil 4 and playing on kiosks at EB I have been able to hold off. WE8 and TW 2005 on the PC have been my only fix.

November can't get here fast enough.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Fri May 13, 2005 10:43 pm

I agree it is too soon, mostly for two major reasons. One is that the Xbox seems to really be hitting its stride right now in terms of games. Look at what is happening visually in GR2, SC:CT, in multiplayer with Halo2 and Forza (invisible hosting etc.), lost opportunities with sports multiplayer gaming (Rivals), etc. It just seems to me that this box has a ton of life still in it, a lot of potential yet to be exploited. Still no Xbox MMORPG? And I know that no matter what, it takes a good couple of years for the really great games start to show up on any new system, so that combined with where I picture Xbox would be headed into next summer, and I think they could be making a big mistake.

The second reason is that I fear MS is setting itself up for a Sega-like fall. Maybe they have more resources to throw at the problem, but still. I mean, the DC was not a bad machine, but it was just not as powerful as the PS2, it used CDs, and missed badly with some of its ideas (VMUs, effective online play through dial-up, etc.). And so the DC ended up killing Sega as a hardware producer. Somehow Sony uses its muscle so well, that even when it puts out an inferior piece of hardware, it still destroys the competition in terms of market share. I don't think MS is in position to pull the same thing off, but hey, what do I know? I worry that giving Sony the benefit of a later release, and thus maybe a more powerful, easy-to-develop-for system, will be giving them too much of an advantage.

In the end, I will be getting in my preorder and lining up on launch day. XBL has turned me into a total Xbox believer, and from what I can see, the new unit will push the XBL envelope to new heights, so I look forward to that. And there's no question in my mind that if hardware were all that there were to games, they could come out with a new machine every two years that would technically blow away the old stuff, so I'm sure there will be a lot to like in the new machine.

Still, I worry that MS is making too much of an effort to make the machine a central, all-encompassing living room entertainment super-hub. They keep on yapping about that stuff. I would like them to make a game machine, and I worry that too much energy put into the other stuff (as yet unporven that people want/need an all-in-one type thing) will make the machine less good for games than it could be otherwise. Eg, PSP has a crapload of uses beyond playing games; those of you who have one, how much do you use for anything outside of gaming, and maybe the occasional MP3? Do you think, like me, that if they had just concentrated on making it a game machine, it would be cheaper to buy and maybe a touch better as a game machine? Does anyone out there really want or need to watch movies on that little doo-hikcy? I just hope in the end, MS can let go of some of their 'all-in-one' dreams, and concentrate on making the 360 the best gaming platform they can muster.

anchester · Post by **anchester** » Sat May 14, 2005 12:44 am

first of all sega saturn did not fail b/c of lack of power.....most of its games looked better than first year ps2 games. It was sheer sony marketing muscle and momentum from the ps1 coupled w/ the fact that everybody liked having a free dvd player. Lastly, the crap company known as EA never supported Dreamcast.

Have you seen the stats on Xbox 360. They are unreal. Three 3.2 hz processors, 500 hz graphix chip and 500 mb ram. All cames are full HD so its not like anyone is going to make better than HD for the next few years.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat May 14, 2005 1:20 am

first of all sega saturn did not fail b/c of lack of power.....most of its games looked better than first year ps2 games.

I hope that was a misprint on your end.

Of course the Saturn failed for the same reason the Dreamcast did. Sega does not know how to market their product and did not have the resources to do so. Sony on the other hand does.

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Sat May 14, 2005 1:32 am

Zeppo wrote: I worry that giving Sony the benefit of a later release, and thus maybe a more powerful, easy-to-develop-for system, will be giving them too much of an advantage.
.

The PS3 may be powerful but it will not be "easy" to develop for at least for a while. It will also suffer a lot from synchonization overhead inefficiencies which will lower the performance. The XBOX 360 will suffer from this as well like all mulitcore processors

mobiggins · Post by **mobiggins** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:12 am

I've had a soft spot for Nintendo all these years, and think that the only thing keeping their consoles from being amazing hardware was the monkeys-with-a-typewriter comittee design of their controllers. I love the GC, but hate its controller. I really liked the N64, but hated its controller.
I hope Revolution goes back to normal controllers and gives us something revolutionary in other aspects.

As for the Xbox 360, there might be consumer backlash on releasing a new system so soon. As has been said, the xbox was just hitting its stride. XBL also gives games longer shelf lives, I think. I have a feeling that consumers are gonna wait for Sony and Nintendo's offering.

I'm also wondering if Microsoft isn't taking into account and might be blindsided by the fact that many of its potential customers for the Xbox 360 have already plunked down a good chunk of coin on a PSP and won't want to pay for two systems in one year, regardless of the fact that one's portable and the other isn't. Just a tought.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:24 am

Mo:

You make good points, but I think you're underestimating the lack of willpower among many consumers of electronic products. How much of that industry is about innovation, and how much of it is about "the hot new thing?"

Look at DSP as an example. OK, we're hardcore gamers, so we're not the norm. Still, how many guys here bought a PSP despite saying before its release that they wouldn't buy one? The buzz bug bit many people with the PSP, and it is a hell of a unit.

I think the hype machine and buzz bug of the Xbox 360 will make the launch of the PSP look like a non-event. Plus the release of the Xbox 360 in November will let Microsoft position it as THE high-tech gift of the holidays. I think that's one of the reasons that MS is promoting the thing as more than just a gaming machine. It's trying to reach beyond gamers for possible purchases during the lucrative holiday season.

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:25 am

Good point about the PSP, Mo. I'm not sure what the better half would think about dropping about $700 or so on new consoles over the course of 7, 8 months.

I'm with you, though, the big ugly box in my entertainment center just seems to be getting better and better. Forza is clouding my view, but games like it will help me wait.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:39 am

mobiggins wrote: I'm also wondering if Microsoft isn't taking into account and might be blindsided by the fact that many of its potential customers for the Xbox 360 have already plunked down a good chunk of coin on a PSP and won't want to pay for two systems in one year, regardless of the fact that one's portable and the other isn't. Just a tought.

I don't think that matters to anyone. When the Xbox came out in 2001, it was released on a Thusday. The Gamecube was released 4 days later on a Sunday. I bought them both and while it was tought to drop that much coin so close to Christmas, I wouldn't have it any other way.

I'm just glad that there will be 7 months in between the PSP and Xbox 360...gives me a little time to pay some of this stuff off. I'll go in every month between now and release and put $50 more down until I have it paid off.

There's also some talk that the PS3 WILL make it out this year and I'd be willing to bet that after the last few days, that Sony is scrambling to try and make that happen.

But I do agree with your orginal point that the Xbox hasn't even peaked yet and they're releasing a new one. I'd love to see them wait another year, but you have to realize that if they did that then the PS3 would be out and Microsoft would be sucking hind tit again. This move positions Microsoft to become the leader in the video game industry, something they've had their sights set on for quite awhile.

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Sat May 14, 2005 12:49 pm

UInless Sony has really planned for this possibility of releasing the PS3 this year, that could be a horrible move. How do you think the launch line-ups would compare?

What Microsoft needs is for a much larger number of people embracing Xbox Live. If they could offer 6 months to a year of free Live service to kick this thing off, they might just bury Sony, if the sales are there.

2006 will be interesting year, as Microsoft and Sony jockey for position. Sony will not be anble to trump Microsoft as easily as they did Sega. The games will be there for the Xbox 360, and it sure seems like Xbox Live is really coming into its own. Once the PS3 comes out, cutomers will compare the two systems, but may be swayed by the early adopters that could have created a far superior enviroment for gaming, even if the Cell Processor is indeed the second coming.

The key will still end up being the price point Microsoft opens with, and then the actual qualit of the games we see. If it's all eye candy, and the price is $399 or more, Sony can take them.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Sat May 14, 2005 1:48 pm

Well, I'll be in line to get my XBox 360 on launch day despite the fact that the original XBox still has 'legs'...It won't be because of fashion, nor will I be discouraged after buying a PSP this year.

Why is Forza so great? because it's the culmination of an evolution in racers...The evolution of gaming is damn fun to watch and be a part of, and I will not want to waste one day of seeing every game in HD, incredible graphics (in fact, the only time graphics look 'incredible' is around launch, after that the gains are incremental because you grow 'used to' better looking games), and a new, more-powerful XBL.

Might the PS3 be better? Perhaps; if so I'll do what I did in the last generation and either buy both or trade the weaker unit in. Might the launch games fail to surpass the quality of this year's XBox game? Sure, but Madden Next Gen is sure to give my saliva glands a workout.

The PSP was a great purchase, I'm gone for 2 weeks right now and playing it on the road is keeping me from missing Forza too much. I believe the XBox 360 will be great as well, and I see no reason to wait. Don't buy because of fashion or hype, but if you love XBL and believe you'll likely stay loyal in the next round if the PS3 doesn't show you something Amazing, then why wait to join the evolution...

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sat May 14, 2005 2:39 pm

MS has different motivations than gamers who think the Xbox is hitting its stride. They are still reportedly losing money on the hardware because they don't own the GPU design meaning they have to pay nVidia to have them make the GPUs. In contrast, with 360, MS will own the right to manufacture the GPU at any plant they want so they will be able to negotiate better deals. Supposedly, nVidia has stopped making GPUs for Xbox.

The other thing is that if the 360 and PS3 came out at the same time, it could be tougher to compete head-on. And PS3 is coming 5 or 6 years after the PS2 launch so MS has no choice if they want to get a head start.

MS should gain market share. It's just too hard to maintain or duplicate whatever market share Sony has over and over again. But their best chance is to get that head start. Especially if PS3 offers better performance, since superior performance was one of the advantages the Xbox had.

That said, wouldn't surprise me if PS2 only had 256 MB of XDR RAM, no hard drive, no wireless. They will probably alienate people buy using some proprietary media to save games.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Sat May 14, 2005 5:30 pm

Without wanting to start another 360 thread... I do have one queston....

Has there been any mention as to whether or not this thing will be backward compatible or not yet?

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:34 pm

They promised to talk about it at their press conference Monday night.

Some of the screens for the dashboard seem to show an Xbox1 zone so people think that means it will be BC.

They might have to pay nVidia so there could be both technical and financial obstacles to deal with.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:43 pm

I'm not ready to give up my Xbox either, however, it seems like it's on it's last legs anyway. The thing makes a terrible noise every time it starts up...and it's pretty loud until it gets warmed up. I'll keep it till it dies...just for Forza alone if I've got to.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:29 pm

I thought so too but the more I see about the 360 the more I really want it even if I feel the Xbox still has life left in it. Check this out:

http://ruliwebfile.dreamwiz.com/mpeg3/xbox360/e3ss.wmv

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun May 15, 2005 9:59 am

Im not ready to give it up either...I dont think its been maxed out

EA sports still hasnt utilized the Xbox...guess the 360 means they never will...You have to admire there dedication to making the best possible gaming experience...

I will still be getting a 360 at launch...Its what a do...flush $$$$ down the toilet.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sun May 15, 2005 10:48 am

My XBOX is my favorite console of all time...its given me more than enough fun. That being said, its time for the new breed to arrive. Keep in mind, we aren't "getting" the XBOX 360 until November. That is still a decent ways off.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sun May 15, 2005 11:39 am

Here's an article about backward's compatibilty. Looks like MS is waiting til the last possible minute to decide:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/ ... ack13.html

Here's a short Wired piece on J. Allard and Microsoft's approach to the Xbox. Interesting 3-year plan for the Xbox and interesting plans for the 360:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.06/xbox_pr.html

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Sun May 15, 2005 11:53 am

great reads, especially that first link. Thanks wco.

I gotta tell you, I think not having it would greatly effect sales after the first initial wave of hardcore gamers running out and getting it.

Believe it or not, that issue alone may be the deciding factor as to whether or not I get one at launch.

I loved that feature with the PS2 when it first came out. I can't even count how many times I've played PS1 games on my PS2. CMR 2.0 still got a lot of time in my regular gaming rotation durning that itme.

I really want to be able to dump my XBOX when the 360 comes out. The current XBOX has too great of a library just to get rid of

My PS2 surely isn't going anywhere due to SOCOM III alone. I can't be having 3 consoles hooked up at the same time. Man's gotta draw the line somewhere.....right???

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sun May 15, 2005 12:06 pm

I don't think I ever loaded a single PS1 game on my PS2. For one thing, I tend to get rid of games I'm finished with.

But a lot of gamers collect older games or keep them around.

Plus in this generation, you saw game prices drop fairly quickly. There are a lot of worthy Greatest Hits collections out there.

So BC would let you sample some of those games you missed for $20 or less. Especially those gamers who didn't have an Xbox but may be getting the 360.

The other factor is that the 360 and PS3 at least will require developers to learn new technology so it may take awhile for games to exploit the power. In particular, most games now do not use multi cores or multiple threads. There should be some worthy launch titles but some highly rated Xbox or PS2 game for $10-20 would be worth playing.

What would also be cool is if they took a last generation game and enhanced it to make it look better. Maybe just scale it to HDTV resolutions, the way some DVD players take DVDs and scale them up to 1080i. Probably not a trivial thing to do but I remember Bleem and other emulators would use video cards to clean up the graphics of the console games they emulated.

Noledog · Post by **Noledog** » Sun May 15, 2005 12:08 pm

A hint to what i believe WillHunting was referring to - Llama.

J · Post by J » Sun May 15, 2005 4:13 pm

In the lower left of the xbox.com main page it says that there will be a live webcast of the Microsoft press briefing tomorrow. I think it starts at 6PT/9ET.

I'm very impressed with the specs for the Xbox 360, but backwards compatibility is going to be important when it's compared to the PS3.

One of the more interesting things I've found about the Xbox 360 was a thread over at teamxbox where people were pointing out possible evidence that Microsoft and Nintendo are going to share the same hardware for this next generation and that it would be backwards compatible with the Gamecube:
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=345234