OT: Election fraud?

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:58 pm

I'm hearing rumors that in every state with auditable voting systems (i.e. receipts and paper trails), the exit polls matched the final results. Meanwhile, in areas with new, un-auditable electronic voting systems, Bush received a consistent +5% bump in final results versus exit polls.

There are also reports of districts with heavy hispanic populations and e-voting where Bush received an inexplicable 400% increase in votes between 2000 and 2004. What's going on here?

Is it wise to have un-auditable voting machines provided by a private corporation (Diebold) with connections to the current administration?

I'm sure some of you will be pissed off by this post, especially with my lack of proof (I'm working on it), but I don't really care anymore. We're headed for dark times.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:00 pm

Dont blame me
I voted for Kotos

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:07 pm

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:07 pm

XXXIV wrote:Dont blame me
I voted for Kotos

Seriously though, I'll believe it when I see some proof. Until then....

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:34 pm

Naples39 wrote:
XXXIV wrote:Dont blame me
I voted for Kotos

Seriously though, I'll believe it when I see some proof. Until then....

Well, there is proof of one thing in Ohio. Kerry was "credited" with 4,000 votes today because a machine in Gahanna (Columbus suburb) was totally f***ed up and gave Bush 4,000 votes that he should not have received. This was in the Dispatch today.

Friday, November 05, 2004
Jim Woods
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

A computer error involving one voting-machine cartridge gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in a Gahanna precinct.

Franklin County's unofficial results gave Bush 4,258 votes to Democratic challenger John Kerry's 260 votes in Precinct 1B, which votes at New Life Church on Stygler Road. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.

Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, said Bush received 365 votes there. The remaining 13 voters who cast ballots either voted for other candidates or did not vote for president.

Damschroder said he received some calls yesterday from people who saw the error when reading the list of poll results on the election board's Web site.

"It's why the results on election night are unofficial," Damschroder said.

The error would have been discovered when the official canvass for the election is performed, he said.

Election workers will start certifying the official election results later this month. The final, official tally will be available by the end of the month.

This is what happened, Damschroder said:

Gahanna Precinct 1B has three voting machines. After the polling station closed, the cartridges were taken to a computerized reading station.

When one of the cartridges from the precinct was plugged into a reader, it generated the faulty number. The reader also recorded zero votes in the race between Arlene Shoemaker and Paula Brooks for county commissioner.

Damschroder said the cartridge was retested yesterday and there were no problems. He couldn't explain why the computer reader malfunctioned.

When workers checked the cartridge against memory banks in the voting machine yesterday, each showed that 115 people voted for Bush on that machine. With the other two machines, the total for Bush in the precinct added up to 365 votes.

***

OK. That's one machine. Is this fraud? I don't think so. Is this system accurate? Your guess is as good as mine. But how are people that voted for Kerry supposed to react when the guy that makes the computer machines for Ohio says that he's confident that they'll deliver Bush a victory? The conflict of interests in this game...it's like professional wrestling.

I'd love for there to be changes made to this archaic system that we use to vote

- Make 11/2 a Holiday. The fact that it is not baffles me.

-Give people that use the computer vote machines a receipt like you get when using an ATM. There has to be a record of this stuff; a voter should walk away from the booth totally confident that they have voted

A) Correctly
B) That their vote was registred

-Pump some chump change into this system so that there are more than enough voting machines in each precinct, regardless of the income of that precinct. When you have a 3 hour wait in Franklin county Ohio, and a 40 minute wait in Hamilton county, it's just FUBAR.

Back to Ohio. Today it was reported that there are, roughly, 100 to 125,000 provisional ballots for Ohio. It's likely that most of those (like 70%) will be Kerry votes. There are also at least 175,000 absentee ballots that have yet to be officially tallied; Kerry lost by 130,000 votes in the state.

What are the odds that when they are counted that Kerry would get the needed votes to catch Bush? Remote. Most absentees will go for Bush, it is assumed. But why there is this mad rush to proclaim a victor when the outcome is so important..it just doesnt make any sense to me.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:43 pm

While I agree with you 1000% that we need a better system and better machines, can I ask you where you get that 70% number estimate for Kerry provisionals?

Looking at the Ohio by county results, the best Kerry did (once) was 67%, while Bush hit or topped 70% 4 times.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:48 pm

Naples39 wrote:
XXXIV wrote:Dont blame me
I voted for Kotos

Seriously though, I'll believe it when I see some proof. Until then....

Yeah, me too.

I don't know why anyone would be pissed off at this point. It was only a matter of time before the losers start claiming fraud. I'm surprised it took this long.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:25 pm

webdanzer wrote:While I agree with you 1000% that we need a better system and better machines, can I ask you where you get that 70% number estimate for Kerry provisionals?

Looking at the Ohio by county results, the best Kerry did (once) was 67%, while Bush hit or topped 70% 4 times.

Because, supposedly, most of the Provo ballots are from the Columbus and Cleveland areas. That number could certainly be incorrect, but that's the general assumption, much as the assumption that most absentees would be for Bush.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:55 am

This isn't the first I heard of it.

How freaking hard is it to have voters fill in a bubble or select a check box. Heck why don't we just put two pitctures up and the voter can put a big freaking circle around the one that looks pretty.

This whole electronics thing is out of control. Get rid of chads and just go paper.

Anybody remember scantron tests from school. My teachers sure as hell didn't have a problem grading them with 100% accuracy.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:29 am

Geez, do you guys need therapy for this obsession? It's...

OVER!!!!

Would the conspiracy nut in the third row please quiet down? Thank you...

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:29 am

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:22 am

Maybe medication would help?

blueduke · Post by **blueduke** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:52 am

Surprise surprise. Charges from the people famous for fraud now claiming fraud. I'm sure Dan Rather is ready to spring another Bush expose on this very subject any day now. And I'm not the only one waiting to see what the great Paul Krugman of the NYT and a few leftist bloggers says about it. i know they were in rare form "The Day After".........http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_lusk ... 050912.asp

You LOST. GET OVER IT

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:07 am

This whole thing about "it's over" is just killing me.

It's not truly over until they count all the votes right? Why in the hell does the US election work this way? If it's not close at all, then making an announcement of a winner in a state makes sense. But, if it's close... SHUT UP AND COUNT THE VOTES. Bush is president until January even if he loses anyway...what's a few more days to get it right?

I'm not saying Kerry will win once they count the provisional/absentee votes (doubt he will) but geesh!

Of course, I live in Canada, where the elections occur sometime every 3-5 years at the whim of the sitting Prime Minister, usually scheduled to coincide with a high popularity for this Prime Minister. We have no term limits, and our choices in parties are LEFT, MORE LEFT, and OFF THE CHARTS LEFT ( not that I mind.) I think the most "right" party here in Canada is way left of any of the major parties in the US.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:25 am

That exit poll in PA is WAAAAAY off. There is no way PA is 60/40. No way.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:36 am

A few months ago my brother calls me at 2AM.
I pick up the phone thinking its an emergency. Why wouldnt I?
I say "whats up"?
He says " put it on ESPN"
" WTF?!"
"Super Bowl XXXVI is on".....the highlights.
"Its 2 AM!"
"yeah but they didnt call the blow to Warners head on Laws INT for a TD"
"What?!"
"were getting screwed..The bastards are mugging our receivers!"
" Its over..My God it was 2 years ago. Go to bed!"
" they didnt call the grounding...Redmond was inbounds"
" f*** you!" click

Im still not happy about that loss but he has still not let it go.
He talks about it all the time.
Hes and my father are both big time Dems...My sister and brother-in-law are Reps.....I cant wait til our next getogether.
Im bringing a gun and one bullet.

I know its a very flawed analogy...Its just what I thought about reading this thread this morning.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:48 am

James_E wrote:This whole thing about "it's over" is just killing me.

It's not truly over until they count all the votes right? Why in the hell does the US election work this way?

Actually James it doesn't work that way. All election results are unofficial until the electors vote, and after all of the votes in each state are "certified". That wont happen for a bit. For instance, the Ohio vote isn't certified yet because by law all Provo ballots cannot be open/counted for 11 days after the election.

There have been many cases over the years of a candidate claiming victory too early, only to get mud thrown in his face. These are usually local races though and not on the National scale. Although the Truman/Dewey race comes close to fitting that bill.

How anyone, left or right, can blame Democrats for being concerned about this mystifies me. Ever since Florida in 2000, the red flags have been up because we feel we got a raw deal in that state. So when we get exit polls saying one thing, and results of computer machines saying 180 degrees opposite, pile on top of that the maker of the Diebold machines being a major contributor to the Bush campaign, AND him saying that he's confident that Bush will carry Ohio..oh, and the Ohio Sec of State being in the exact same position that Katherine Harris was in Florida in 2000 (he's chair of the Reelect Bush camapign) .what do you expect? Do you honestly believe that if the shoe were on the other foot that the Republicans would slink away and say, "Yeah, good game...you beat us." If you believe that you're living in a dream state. If this had happened to Rove and CO. they'd be screaming from the rafters.

It's simply human nature to want to exhaust every effort to certify that the results are legit. To think or do anyting other than that...to me is simply unAmerican.

Was there fraud in Ohio and Florida? My gut tells me no. I personally feel that Kerry lost this race because he was not more than simply "Not Bush." I think a charismatic candidate without the glaring flaws that Kerry had going into this could have defeated Bush rather handily. Not all Dems believed in Kerry and in the end that's what beat him. I lay this loss squarely on the Democratic leadership combined with the fact that the GOP know what buttons to push to get their base out in full force.

However, every vote needs to be counted, sealed, and certified and the machines need to be audited before the book is officially closed. Thankfully, Black Box.Org is going to do this via the Freedom of Information Act. The votes on these machines will be checked, as they should be. Why is this not considered common sense? We have a machine in Gahanna Ohio that was totally FUBAR, awarding a candidate 4,000 votes he never should have received. Will other machines be as screwed up? For all I know Bush actually won by MORE than is being reported. I have no idea. But when you have one machine with a huge error, why is it out of the question that there are more?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:54 am

Bill_Abner wrote: For all I know Bush actually won by MORE than is being reported. I have no idea. But when you have one machine with a huge error, why is it out of the question that there are more?

Its percentages...odds...math.
The victory margins are such thats its virtually impossible to catch up.
Virtually all the mistakes/provisional and absentee ballots would have to change hands in Ohio .....while that didnt happen in the much closer elections in other states.

Its over.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:59 am

tealboy03 wrote:Geez, do you guys need therapy for this obsession? It's...

OVER!!!!

Would the conspiracy nut in the third row please quiet down? Thank you...

Over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it's not over now...at least not for Jack.

I think we need to put Jack in the room with Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon and let them discuss their new strategy.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:30 pm

Bill_Abner wrote:It's simply human nature to want to exhaust every effort to certify that the results are legit. To think or do anyting other than that...to me is simply unAmerican.

It's very reasonable to exhaust every effort, but even Bill Clinton warned recently that it would be a mistake for Democrats to "sit around and whine" about the results. It's hard for me to take these complaints too seriously when I've heard so much whining from the Democrats since Wednesday (I'm not implying that Republicans wouldn't have whined). First it was attack the people that voted for Bush and make fun of them and now it is a quest to uncover some nefarious plot to steal another election. I never really took the Republicans claims over the years about voting fraud (dead people voting for Democrats and people voting multiple times) seriously and I'll wait until there is proof about these allegations.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:39 pm

I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at election results and checking for accuracy. That doesn't mean you're looking to overturn the election. However, I would hope that with each election cycle, we get more accurate in the way we count votes.

I also think they should get rid of exit polling. It's too easy to skew/manipulate.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:41 pm

Brando70 wrote:I would hope that with each election cycle, we get more accurate in the way we count votes.

I also think they should get rid of exit polling. It's too easy to skew/manipulate.

This man is a genius.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:44 pm

Brando70 wrote:I also think they should get rid of exit polling. It's too easy to skew/manipulate.

Seriously. Exit polls are a friggin' joke. PA at 60/40 Kerry? That's unreal. Why all the confidence in exit polls? I heard the results of some exit polls here before I even voted at 1:30PM. Around here a lot of Bush supporters with longer commutes back to the suburbs must vote in the evening after work. It seems like they may have been missed in a lot of exit polls.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:04 pm

You know what the exit polls prove? That Republicans lie. They probably voted for Bush and then told the exit poller they voted for Kerry.

This is all in fun......I think......maybe.....

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:11 pm

They are polls like any other polls.
How many of u were polled by an exit poller????????

If they(networks) are really using this s*** to create models for projections I think its time for these ass clowns to join the rest of us in the 21st century.

Digital Sportspage

OT: Election fraud?

OT: Election fraud?

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