Colin M 2005 - Where's All The Love?

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:30 pm

I am really surprised at the lack of praise from the regulars on this board for CM05??? I though it would be a huge hit among you racing fanatics. Is the game just not as good as everyone anticipated? Is it just not available to everyone yet? It is just "more of the same" when compared to CM04? I was expected this board to be abuzz about this game and it doesn't seem to be happening. Only a select few are talking about this game. Is everyone disappointed? What's the deal?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:38 pm

Hard for me to comment on a game I haven't played yet.

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:38 pm

PK doesn't have it yet...and the rest of us don't post enough

I'm addicted to it and enjoy it much more than 04.

Hopefully we get some packed rooms on Live soon for it so the stories can start flowing out from the game.

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:42 pm

Don't have it, have not rented it.

Sticking with traditional track racing for now. Have too many games as it is.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:55 pm

Honestly, I never expected Colin to be an overwhelming favorite around here.

First, it's a sim racer, and I think there are fewer sim racers here than we think. The insane amount of buzz surrounding Burnout 3 after its release confirms that. Everyone loved that game -- except for me! -- and it's arcade all the way.

Second, a pure rally sim without head-to-head rallycross offline or online is a niche game within a niche genre, racing. A niche within a niche doesn't equate to a game with mass appeal.

Rallisport 2 had more popularity and appeal for most than CMR 2005, and I understand why. RSC 2 is a lot easier because it's an arcade game, and it has online and offline head-to-head racing, which really isn't rallying. I thought RSC 2 sucked donkey balls, but I can see why people like it.

That said, I'm really eager to play CMR 2005 since I've been addicted to the series since its inception on the PSX. I'm giving up hope that my freebie copy is coming, so I may break down and go to EB tonight or tomorrow night.

Take care,
PK

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:01 pm

pk500 wrote:
First, it's a sim racer, and I think there are fewer sim racers here than we think. The insane amount of buzz surrounding Burnout 3 after its release confirms that.

It is entirely possible to be a "sim racer" and still love a game like Burnout 3. You yourself have said that you like a good arcade racer.

I like both types of racing, but prefer sim. Yeah Burnout 3 is fun, but I have more fun with sims on the PC or "more sim" games like Nascar 2005 and TOCA 2.

I don't care if I'm considered a "sim racer" or not, but liking Burnout 3 or not isn't the measuring stick.

I have too many damn games as is.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:03 pm

"I'm giving up hope that my freebie copy is coming, so I may break down and go to EB tonight or tomorrow night."

Fork over the bones, PK...it's worth it. Online without the ghosts is really awesome. It's hard as hell, but that's a good thing...

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:18 pm

>>>It is entirely possible to be a "sim racer" and still love a game like Burnout 3. You yourself have said that you like a good arcade racer.<<<

Down, boy, down.

I wasn't pointing any fingers at you or anyone who likes sim racers and Burnout 3. My point is that Burnout 3 received almost universal acclaim from many people in here upon its release, a lot more than CMR 2005, proving that arcade racers with a lot of crashing have broader appeal than a sim rally game.

And yes, I like a good arcade racer as much as anyone. I just don't think Burnout 3 is worth $50. Definitely $20, but not $50. It got really dull really quickly for me, and I know I'm in the vast minority with that sentiment.

Take care,
PK

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:30 pm

Unfortunately I don't have the extra cash to pick it up right now. I want this puppy badly though. I loved '03 & '04.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:45 pm

CM 04 was released in March 2004. CM 2005 was released just 6 months later. I normally do not buy two games in the same series within 6 months, especially a niche title. Sure, they are both budget titles, but the cost of both would still be $50.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:46 pm

I really think there is just a flood of quality titles out there right now. There may not be an end-all-be-all title in the bunch, but certainly a lot of very good games.

PK has alluded to the problem of no game having legs on XBL...just look at the past month. NHL was all the rage, then Burnout, now SW seems to have as many people playing as any other game. I would like an NBA title, but I am having a hard enough time playing Madden, NHL, and Colin as is, so I'm going to wait for a while.

Racing games are part of that struggle--BO3, NASCAR 2005, and the ever-present ToCA claim a lot of gaming time. That's a lot of racing right there, which makes it hard to throw in McRae.

PK, break down and get the game already!

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:48 pm

I've got it, I enjoy it, but NBA Live has been surprising the hell out of me. I haven't seen any DSPers online with Colin yet either so I haven't been able to check it out online. The one time I tried to play online there was only 1 room setup and as soon as i joined it, it disbanded (hopefully not because of me

). It's a great game for sure, but it is one that will require a lot of playtime to really get good at it.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:58 pm

CMR 2005 is definitely growing on me. Part of the problem is that Codemasters has released 3 versions of the CMR series in little more than 18 months. The other problem is that while there are some good additions (online), it is not all done to the extent that I hoped. However, I am still glad I purchased it.

The best thing is that I feel this is the most challenging version yet, especially if you turn on advanced damage, no arrows, no progress meter and use the true cockpit camera.

I wish there were setups, damage carry over, service areas, and leaderboard updates between stages for online rallies, but you can't have everything.

It appears that if you stay logged into XBL and run any of the time trial challenges, that you can post your ghost for download by any other player. The bad thing is that while you can see all the times, you cannot filter your friends list. It took me about 10min to find a DSP players ghost to download and race against (mix you trounced me with your Lancer). Cool feature, just not implemented with some standards that have already been in other games.

Another good thing is that you can still custom configure your controlller.

Anyway, I am enjoying the game. I definitely have higher expectations than most because this is like the 8th version of the CMR series that I have purchased for either console or PC.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:59 pm

pk500 wrote: I wasn't pointing any fingers at you or anyone who likes sim racers and Burnout 3. My point is that Burnout 3 received almost universal acclaim from many people in here upon its release, a lot more than CMR 2005, proving that arcade racers with a lot of crashing have broader appeal than a sim rally game.

Actually, I don't think that's what it proves at all. I think it proves that Burnout 3 is closer to being a great arcade game that arcade fans would enjoy than CMR05 is to being a great sim rally game that sim fans would enjoy.

Look at DChap's long list of disappointments, and the lack of a full featured online mode...poor damage modeling, innaccurate tire selections, etc

I don't think its a 'DSP style population thing' at all...I just think the perception is that BO3 is a better arcade racer than CMR05 is a sim rallier.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:20 pm

PK - I'll sell you my copy if u want. check your PM's. I just dont think I am going to like it all that much. I dont see the fun of online racing if you cant race against other (physical) cars? I love the "head to head" competition factor, like we have in TOCA 2.

mobiggins · Post by **mobiggins** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:29 pm

I have it, I haven't had time to play it much, but I'm looking forward to racing a couple of rallies with you guys.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:10 pm

>>>I don't think its a 'DSP style population thing' at all...I just think the perception is that BO3 is a better arcade racer than CMR05 is a sim rallier.<<<

I'll respectfully disagree. I think the standards by which arcade racers are held are lower than those for sims.

It's easier to please people with arcade racers than it is sims. Arcade racers only need a good sense of speed, good graphics, some sort of wrinkle and some longevity, and they're golden. There's no worry about setup models, physics, racing models, damage models, etc., etc.

Arcade racing games, whether good or bad, are a lot more accessible to most gamers than even the best sim game. There are a hell of a lot more people who would rather play a mediocre arcade racer like Need For Speed Underground or Midnight Club II than a brilliant sim racer like TOCA 2.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:11 pm

JackB1 wrote:PK - I'll sell you my copy if u want. check your PM's. I just dont think I am going to like it all that much. I dont see the fun of online racing if you cant race against other (physical) cars? I love the "head to head" competition factor, like we have in TOCA 2.

Jack:

Thanks for the offer, but I'll respectfully decline due to a scheme that Zeppo and DB suggested last week in here. Check your PMs.

Thanks,
PK

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:20 pm

JackB1 wrote:PK - I'll sell you my copy if u want. check your PM's. I just dont think I am going to like it all that much. I dont see the fun of online racing if you cant race against other (physical) cars? I love the "head to head" competition factor, like we have in TOCA 2.

I'd possibly be interested in buying your copy Jack. I PM'd you. Let me know.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:37 pm

pk500 wrote:I think the standards by which arcade racers are held are lower than those for sims.

It's easier to please people with arcade racers than it is sims. Arcade racers only need a good sense of speed, good graphics, some sort of wrinkle and some longevity, and they're golden. There's no worry about setup models, physics, racing models, damage models, etc., etc.

Arcade racing games, whether good or bad, are a lot more accessible to most gamers than even the best sim game. There are a hell of a lot more people who would rather play a mediocre arcade racer like Need For Speed Underground or Midnight Club II than a brilliant sim racer like TOCA 2.

I don't disagree with any of that, but that's not really my point. You were speaking of the DSP population specifically with your 'not many sim racers in here' comments, not just game buyers as a whole. Did DSP embrace the two other arcade racers you mentioned (NFSU and MCII) like they did Burnout 3? Nope. And a sim racer game like Indycar was treated pretty kindly here given the types of problems it had.

So I still say the buzz for BO3 compared to CMR3 here is due to their respective places, plusses and minuses, within their own genres...not because we've developed a sudden lack of sim racers here.

But agreeing to disagree is fine.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:46 pm

In the true spirit of Point-Counterpoint on "Weekend Update" on the old "Saturday Night Live:"

"Web, you ignorant slut ... "

Out,
PK

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:50 pm

PK500

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:15 pm

OK well let's set the record straight here. Whatever argument there is to be made regarding the number of or enthusiasm of posts about one game vs. another, the fact is IMHO CMR05 is the best rally game I've ever played.

Now, that's not saying much, I haven't played too many rally games, certainly not many sims, and not many at all on this gen of consoles.

But, CMR04 was IMHO a superb game, despite its lack of glitz and fancy doo-dads. And CMR05 is for me better in every way than CMR04. It is NOT a disappointment the way I perceived 03 was, or the way NCAA turned out to be this year. It is NOT in any respect an inferior game to 04, and in fact it IS superior with more cars, more stages, more rallies, more 'challenges' (the career mode, now that I am beyond the disappointment of it not being a stright series of rallies, one after the other, does a good job of forcing some variety into the 'user's choice' style of plain old championships), and online play.

I think Burnout had some hype-created buzz. Everyone loved the last one, and was hungry for more. PK gave it a shot on the kiosk and blasted it harshly. The release vesion came out and everyone was like "PK WTF is worng with you? IT IS better than BO2, it IS fast and fun," etc. etc.

CMR05 came out and we all expected a big improvement over what I though was an excellent game in 04. Instead we got minor improvements in all areas, and an online mode that didn't stand up to our admittedly high (though I don't think unreasonable) standards. Not because it doesn't work online or is broken, but just because online lacks certain features we would prefer to see.

So, i'll say it again, I am loving CMR05. I enjoy it more and more the more I play it. I enjoy the online mode, even without setups and carry-over damage. I enjoy the career mode, even if it seems illogical to have one stage from Spain and one stage from Greece back to back. I would suggest CMR05 to anyone interested in a quality rally sim, where the core elements of physics, stage design, damage model, are more important than the flashiness of pop tunes, flashy graphics, and an unrealistc sense of speed and control.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:27 pm

>>>PK gave it a shot on the kiosk and blasted it harshly.<<<

Zep:

For the record, I also rented BO3 for three nights to ensure that my prior "kiosk blast" wasn't misplaced.

The "kiosk salvo" was a bit harsh, but I still think BO3 is an overrated game for 50 bones. Not my cup of English Breakfast.

Take care,
PK

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:33 pm

Zeppo, your post -though informative and composed of exactly the type of personal game experiences common to this board that have collectively made this site an invaluable resource to me over the years- is wildly off topic.

Shame on you.

PK and I were simply trying to answer the submitter's question as to why there is no 'love' for CMR.

Get your priorities in line, mister!