Clancy/Ubi fans: Selling any of the 'holy trinity?'

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:05 pm

Hi all:

I'm one of the many cats in here who owns the Tom Clancy/Ubi Soft "holy trinity" of Ghost Recon Island Thunder, Rainbow Six 3 and Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow for the Xbox.

Have any of you sold any of those games? If not, which one is taking the biggest hit in terms of time played and may hit the auction block or trade-in shelf soon?

I haven't sold any of them -- they're all great games. But I'm thinking one of them may take the chop with TOCA 2, IndyCar Series 2005 and Full Spectrum Warrior coming out in the next two months, not to mention my work schedule these days.

Pandora Tomorrow is safe, as I've barely even played it. I finished the offline mode of GRIT, but I f*cking love it online. RS 3 is great online, but I've barely played it offline and haven't played it much online lately, either.

I guess RS3 would get the chop if I had to trim one. But I'm not ready to chop yet.

You guys?

Thanks,
PK

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:37 pm

PKsey,

I cannot bring myself to depart with any of those. And this is coming from someone who trades in games if they are out of the rotation for a few days !!! I just love them so damn much and would hate to miss out on a fun online get togther in all of them when I have the time and am in the mood.

I was tempted to sell GR:IT recently but figured WHY !?!? I might as well save that for a rainy day and the few 'Poker Nights' I can attend. Besides how much could I really get for a trade in on that either???

Plus, since the Clancy'Ubi games are so damn good, I actaully like having the collection in my library now. At the very least having the most current version of that particular game represented in my library...

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:45 pm

I am selling Pandora Tomorrow right now. Not because its a bad game, but because I have other games I want more on the horizon, and this one should bring me the most returns on eBay right now. FPS are just not that interesting to me any more, even the really good ones. GR:IT I will keep mainly beacause it would probably be more of a hassle to sell at this point with very minimal gain if any.

PS - Oh yeah, I suck at these games on the Xbox.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:01 pm

I would say I never play either GR:IT or RS-3 other than on the Poker Nights anymore. And since they are such unique and different experiences, I can't see getting rid of one or the other very easily. Co-op for RS-3, Poker Night madness for GR:IT (although team play can be fun for a while in RS-3).

SC:PT is in it's own class. It's a much more 'arcadey' type of game than the other two, and the online game is completely different than the single-player game, far more so than the other two. And of course it has me firmly in its grasp at this point.

I guess I am saying RS-3 would be the first one to go, since the 4-player limit of it and SC:PT set them apart from the type of play we get with GR:IT. I think you'd make the right choice if you got rid of RS-3.

I actually think GR is the king of them all. I can't imagine NOT having Poker Nights for that one for too long a time; it's just a pure classic in terms of team play, and has goldeneye-like legs.

BBReBozo · Post by **BBReBozo** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:02 pm

I'm with Don. I'm selling Pandora Tomorrow soon, either on Ebay or back to EB, so I can get Pro Race Driver.

Pandora is a lot of fun and an exquisite online game, but I'm just horrible at it and it ends up being nothing more than frustrating for me.

I'm too old, and have too little spare time, to play games I suck at.

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:31 pm

I already traded in RB6 for ESPN, as I was finding the online play a little stale. I'm actually getting fairly annoyed at Splinter Cell as well, as the 12 year olds have finally found a way to ruin games (i.e. setting them to infinite time and infinite lives and then running around as spies dropping from ceilings over and over).

Good games, but I'm putting in much more time with ESPN MLB and NFL.

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:35 pm

DChaps wrote:I am selling Pandora Tomorrow right now.

how much?

ps. strongbad rules.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:38 pm

I'm with all of you cats. You all make very valid points.

RS:3 would be the first to go. Then Pandora Tomorrow. I think GRIT is untouchable because of its awesome gameplay, especially online, and it's resale value is low.

We'll see what happens when TOCA 2 and IndyCar Series 2005 come out. I plan on spending so much time with both of those, and my gaming time is very limited these days, that I may just sell RS 3 and Pandora Tomorrow very soon. I can always buy back Pandora Tomorrow on the cheap in mid-August after the final race at the Speedway.

Plus I read where UbiSoft is releasing a RS sequel for the Xbox in August.

We'll see. I'm with BB: I really need to keep my collection pared to the games that get the most play, not the ones that I want to get the most play.

Take care,
PK

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:14 pm

pk500 wrote:. . . I may just sell RS 3 and Pandora Tomorrow very soon. I can always buy back Pandora Tomorrow on the cheap in mid-August after the final race at the Speedway.

Take care,
PK

That would be sad. PK you were so jazzed up for this game before release, but it came out at a bad time for you, and so you've missed out. Now that everyone else has played it, you barely think twice about getting rid of it. Just goes to show you how much better games are before they are released!!!

You were more excited about it than I was, but once I got it, I was hooked. It would be too bad if you bought it and sold it without ever giving online play a real solid run-through, and I don't just mean a couple games online.

I guess it could be seen as a fault of a game these days that it does have a serious learining curve, but I think with SC:PT 80% of that is in getting a handle on the maps. I stink as a spy when it comes to incapacitating mercs (some guys are very good at this), yet I can have success utilizing tactics and timing, deception and teamwork, etc. etc. Armed with those tools, and a competent understanding of the maps, you can succeed as a spy.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying A.) it's interesting how much NOT having a game increases our excitement for it far more than the playing, especially if NO ONE has it yet (I know this is true for me), and B.) I still think YOU would love SC:PT online, PK. It might be right up your alley, especially if you keep it for a long while, and give yourself a chance to get familiar with the maps.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:20 pm

I'm too old, and have too little spare time, to play games I suck at.

Heh, Amen to that! But for me its more like which games I suck at the least, as I basically suck at them all.

It's all about degrees of suckiness.

Sudz:

It's selling here on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1

No bids yet, and I have Buy it Now set at $40.00 based on the last weeks previous completed auction pricing. I usually don't pimp my auctions around here as I am always trying to maximize my dollars, but I would be willing to waive the shipping if any DSP regular won the auction. Send me a PM if you are interested and I maybe we could work something out.

ps. strongbad rules.

PS - Yeah, some people think SB/HSR has had its ups and downs over the last year, but to me it's still the funniest damn thing on the net. Guess I am a tad biased though.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:40 pm

>>>You were more excited about it than I was, but once I got it, I was hooked. It would be too bad if you bought it and sold it without ever giving online play a real solid run-through, and I don't just mean a couple games online.<<<

Zeppo:

I don't doubt that PT is a great game online. But it's also a game with a learning curve, which in normal times I enjoy.

These are not normal times for me at all. I'm busy as hell, lucky to turn the console on more than once per week and maybe for 25 minutes at a pop.

Plus I'm just being honest: Unless PT reaches out of the disc tray and blows me on the spot, I know I'm going to spend more time with TOCA 2 and IndyCar Series 2005. I really enjoy Ubi/Clancy games, but I LOVE Codemasters' racing games.

>>>It might be right up your alley, especially if you keep it for a long while, and give yourself a chance to get familiar with the maps.<<<

This is exactly why I'm leaning toward putting PT on the block for now and exactly why I don't play RPG's. I don't have a long while to do anything these days other than work.

I don't mind putting time into a game where honing my skills with the actual game mechanics helps me to improve -- turning a lot of laps in a racing game, for example. But spending hours just learning maps instead of honing my game-based skills to improve at PT -- hmm ... that sounds like a waste of time.

For example, I have no problem practicing shooting and tactics to improve in GRIT. That's why I bought the game. But I bought PT because I wanted to practice stealth tactics and break some necks to get good, not run around and learn maps. And the number of people who say "you need to learn the maps" to get good at this game scares me, frankly.

Is learning a map truly the secret to success at PT instead of proper spy tactics? If so, then I'm definitely selling PT. I bought it to be Sam Fisher, not Rand McNally.

I'm going to give PT a shot online, no doubt. And I still may sell it even if it's great. That's not an indictment of the game; it's an honest admission that I have very little time and there are select few games with which I want to spend that time. Racing games ALWAYS take priority with me.

Maybe I'll jump on XBL for some PT this week if time allows.

Take care,
PK

mixdj1 · Post by **mixdj1** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:41 pm

Hey guys,

I can't see myself getting rid of any of them. In fact I still own the original Ghost Recon, the original Splinter Cell, and all the demo disks. I'm a big Clancy fan so they are more like collector's items to me. They just happen to be kick ass games as well.

mixdj1

lsdean · Post by **lsdean** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:53 am

I haven't thought about selling any of them. I think it would depend on our poker nights. I only play GRIT and RS3 online since I have finished the offline missions. If most of the poker night guys sold either one of these then I would probably get rid of it too. I am still trying to get my brother to pick up SC so I will keep that around.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:24 pm

pk500 wrote:>>>It might be right up your alley, especially if you keep it for a long while, and give yourself a chance to get familiar with the maps.<<<

This is exactly why I'm leaning toward putting PT on the block for now and exactly why I don't play RPG's. I don't have a long while to do anything these days other than work.

Take care,
PK

All I meant by "keep it for a long while" was that I'm sure guys like myself, Mix, lsdean, Webdanzer, Scoop, Fishguy, Kruza, Spooky, Tealboy, and others will still be playing this game regularly well into the fall, and probably well after that as well. It's that much fun, it's that well balanced, and it's even better when you know your opponents and teammate. So, what I was thinking when I wrote that was, if you kept it in your library, and played it once a week or thereabouts, after a little time, you would have more than enough familiarity with the maps to really enjoy the game. The maps are not terribly complex, but it takes a few visits before you feel like you know where you are gong and where you want to get to. The issue is that there are spy areas (ducts, above the drop ceilings, etc.) and merc areas (places where normal people would walk), so it's a little different than most games.

pk500 wrote: Is learning a map truly the secret to success at PT instead of proper spy tactics? If so, then I'm definitely selling PT. I bought it to be Sam Fisher, not Rand McNally.

That's not the case, it's not the 'secret' at all, but to get to a point where you are using stealth and timing and diversionary tactics, you have to have a sense of where you are. As a spy, if you know how to get around, you can move from place to place without detection, and that's when the game really takes off. Let me put it like this: each map has 3 or 4 means of entry for the spies. The first few times you play it, you are only really aware of one and maybe two, which makes it easy for the mercs. But as you play the map a few times, or see what other guys are doing, you become aware of the other ways to get in. Once you know them, you know them, how you use them is up to you. It's different than a game like RS-3, where NOT knowing the map adds to the gameply. You can only run terrorist hunt so many times before you know where all the baddies are likely to be, however. This game is about the spies vs mercs (or me vs. Mix, really

), so knowing the maps only makes the game better.

I didn't mean to suggest that you had to put X number hours in per week in order to get anything at all out of the game; rather that if you took the long view and understood that those of us who like it are going to be playing through the summer and likely well beyond, then the worries about learning curves and getting to know the maps would become moot.

Really, if you're not going to play it, then it makes no sense to keep it. I just think it's a shame that you in particular were so jazzed up about it, but since you couldn't play when it came out, now you feel behind the curve and thus don't want it anymore. I was trying to suggest that after a month or so of playing it once in a while, you'd be pretty much caught up, and a month isn't really very long with a game like this, I don't think. And the fun to be had in this game is indeed very close to the game you were hyped up about before it was released.

mixdj1 · Post by **mixdj1** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:39 pm

All I meant by "keep it for a long while" was that I'm sure guys like myself, Mix, lsdean, Webdanzer, Scoop, Fishguy, Kruza, Spooky, Tealboy, and others will still be playing this game regularly well into the fall

I definitely agree here. Now that I do know the maps well it is definitely a game of strategy and teamwork. One thing I would recommend is finding somebody to team up with on a regular basis. Since fshguy and I grew up together and are best friends the communication and teamwork come naturally. PK, you might consider teaming up with Provo (assuming he has the game) as having a teammate you feel comfortable communicating with really helps. Of course learning to snap necks easily helps a lot too.

mixdj1

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:11 pm

Splinter Cell is INCREDIBLE, bottom line. If you even remotely like the other Clancy/Ubi X-Box games on LIVE, you would be missing out greatly without playing this game.

Does it have a learning curve, YES. But so did Ghost Recon for me when I first got it. That IS the beauty of SC and GR. They are games that I will still learn new things about every time I play it. Do you have to take time to learn the maps in SC, sure do, but you have to in GR as well right?

The game is a masterpiece and should be experience by all who love and appriciate any type of tactical/multiplayer/shooter/stealth game.

I agree with Mix too about finding a good partner and trying to stick with them. It can really make a world of difference, BUT, that is also another cool challenge with the game, trying to accomplish the tasks with a complete stranger and trying to work with their strengths/weakness's.

There are so many possibilities with this game it is staggering. What's also great to think about is that right when I get to know these maps well, I assume there will be more to download. That gives this game replay value through the roof!!!

I know this game will have just as much place (if not more) in my library as GR for LIVE play.

Oh and PK, I remeber you thinking if this games is as cool or cooler online wise as RS:3 it's a no brainer. Well, it's better than Co-Op for RS:3. Imagine playing 'Terrorist Hunt' in RS:3, but instead of Terrorists, you are hunting Spies and the Spies are human controlled, not AI. Sounds pretty cool right? Guess what, it's even cooler than that!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:37 pm

Spooky:

Thanks for the reply. I played Pandora Tomorrow on XBL for the first time last night for two hours and was unmoved, as I mentioned in another thread. Easily the least fun of the Clancy games online for me.

I'll give it a few more shots, but this game isn't doing much for me online at all. And I'm not sure I'm going to take too much time, as TOCA 2 will be a MONSTER online if my initial impressions of the offline game are any indication.

No question RS:3 and GR had learning curves online. But at least I had fun while learning. Last night wasn't much fun at all even though I was playing with some of my dearest XBL buds.

That's telling to me.

Take care,
PK

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:48 pm

Pk,

That is very surprising and interesting. Oh well, to each their own. Anxious to hear about TOCA !

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:57 pm

Spooky:

Surprised the hell out of me, too. The whole time I'm playing PT, I'm thinking, "Man, I'd rather be playing GRIT or RS3 right now."

I must be missing something, so I'll give this game a few more tries. Can't judge it by just one two-hour session, but let's just say it wasn't love at first play. Hardly.

Maybe this will be a long courtship.

Take care,
PK

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:08 pm

pk500 wrote:Spooky:

Surprised the hell out of me, too. The whole time I'm playing PT, I'm thinking, "Man, I'd rather be playing GRIT or RS3 right now."

I must be missing something, so I'll give this game a few more tries. Can't judge it by just one two-hour session, but let's just say it wasn't love at first play. Hardly.

Maybe this will be a long courtship.

Take care,
PK

Yeah, maybe or maybe not. I understand your points (reading your other thread) and can see how it doesn't float your boat in some ways. I think you had different expectations of it. For me, it was just what I was expecting, hoping and then some! Personally, I think there is more strategy invloved/needed in this game than RS:3 and GR combined, however, I think most players do not play it like that, hence the running around and shooting like crazy.

It is different, that's for sure. But that is what really draws me to it. It takes that exisiting genre and adds a certain twist that I find very refreshing. To me it is much more intense and stressful, yet rewarding than the other Clancy/Ubi games. I think that is the big selling point to me. Running around knowing there is a damn spy in those shadows somewhere but I can't find him or hanging from a rafter and seeing that Merc walking around right below me and passing by without ever seeing me. But for those few moments, I almost crap my pants!

If you do give it another spin, keep in mind that the game IS different from the other 'shooters' and that if you are running around crazy and involved in too much gunpplay, then you are not doing something correct and need to try a different strategy (or the spies are not playing well enough). Anyway, schedule something here for another go round if you want and we'll hook up after some TOCA or GR!

Oh, and I am glad to see you recognize Fight Night's stregths ! I am loving that game!!!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:14 pm

>>>To me it is much more intense and stressful, yet rewarding than the other Clancy/Ubi games. I think that is the big selling point to me. Running around knowing there is a damn spy in those shadows somewhere but I can't find him or hanging from a rafter and seeing that Merc walking around right below me and passing by without ever seeing me. But for those few moments, I almost crap my pants!<<<

Spooky:

See, I didn't get that "Oh, sh*t" nervous feeling last night one bit. And I played with Scoop, Hugo and Fshguy, who are experienced players.

I feel WAY more suspense crawling up a bluff on my belly in GRIT, wondering if a defender is in the zone ready to blow off my head or if I can run my ass off into the zone and win Siege for my team than I did at any point last night. Same with Terrorist Hunt in RS:3. I feel more suspense wondering what the hell is behind each door than I did last night.

Again, I need to try PT again sometime. This game deserves more time because of the praise it's received from people whose opinion I respect, such as you, Mixer and Zeppo, so I'll try to give it some more time and plays.

Take care,
PK

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:33 pm

PK,
Last night wasn't a very good representation of the sense of tension that is present in every match. Since it was your first time you were following Zeppo around and that made things a little easier for me and fshguy. In normal situations we would not have been doubled up like that since there is more to cover but we played a hunch that you'd be tailing him. The true beauty of the game is when the spies are split up and keep those mercs scrambling. Also, the 2nd map we played (Warehouse) wasn't conducive for tension either as it is very hard to open up the 2nd area of the level with experienced players guarding the main warehouse.

I feel partially responsible for your initial unfavorable impressions. I should have played like I normally would have played instead of banking on the fact that you 2 would be hanging out together since it was your first time. The same thing happened to me and my brother 2 nights ago when I was showing him the ropes. We died a lot but that was unavoidable since I was showing him different aspects of the levels. I'm sorry for taking advantage of the situation and would like a second chance to show you just how damn this game is online.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:38 pm

Scoop:

Appreciate the post and offer to play again.

No need to apologize. I'm the one who should say "sorry" as I think my inexperience really ruined your game. That's why I left after two hours, as I was draining the fun from the game for everyone due to my lack of skills.

Honestly, I didn't mind dying all the time. I expected it. And I even got into the flow a bit, putting up distractions for Zeppo in the warehouse and sneaking around in the shadows in the Warehouse.

But even then, I didn't feel much suspense. I still want to give this game more of a shot and will welcome playing with you cats again -- that is if you can pry me away from TOCA 2.

Take care,
PK

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:57 pm

It's up to PK, of course, to determine if he's going to like the game or not, but I do feel a need to repeat the suggestion that I made for him before he started playing; that is, to try and play with a couple of guys of around his same experience level.

I really do think that learning WTF to do while your enemies are also wondering WTF to do, while stumbling across the maps for the first few times ADDS to the experience, beacuse you can 'learn' while still having a good and challenging time trying to beat your opponents.

Remember the cool feeling of discovery you had when you found out a new entry point, or a place to get a nice drop on your opponent...and HE AS WELL was unaware of it? PK won't have that.

More experienced dudes you play will either:

1) Blow past you and win the mission or kill you like crazy if they are trying to win.

or

2) Hold your hand and 'show you the ropes' of the game.

Both of these would take away from the fun I had in the early stages of learning the game.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:22 pm

Web:

Good points, but your idea leads to a dilemma for me since I never played this online for the first two weeks I owned it.

I'd rather play with DSP buds, most of whom already have significant time invested in this game, than play with novice strangers so I can learn the game.

My other question is, once you've learned the maps really well and know all the entry points, how does the game not become a stalemate? If there are only four entry points, then how do the Mercs not know the best places to cover?

Take care,
PK