OT: Directv and HDTV local channel question

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:23 pm

I recently had Directv service out to my house to install a new 5 LNB dish. I had them replace my old standard Directv dish. However, I still don't get the local channels in hd. Do I need an off air antenna? A sales guy at Best Buy told me I need a HD tuner, which cost around $150. That seems a bit excessive.

Any suggestions.

Thanks.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:32 pm

Um no.

Which DTV box do you have? Is it the Tivo HD10-250 or is it the DTV (I forget the model number)

I have one of each so here is the deal. In order to get HD locals you need a HD box. The tivo box will not get HD Locals off the dish, so you would need an off air antenna for this, it goes right into your multi-switch and then the back of the tivo. You see the channels listed in your menu guide etc.

When DTV guy was installing my 5LNB diush, he offered to do it and give me the antenna for $50, which I am sure went into his pocket. So I have no idea what they cost normally.

Now the DTV box will get you your locals in HD right off the Dish. The look and sound much better from me anyway. The downside here is the DTV DVR is a steaming POS. I've been through 4 of them already, they are no where near as intuitive as Tivo and there rewind / fast forward technology sucks (I assume Tivo has a patent on theirs, since no one elses is worth a damm).

If you never had tivo you won't know the difference, but if you're a Tivo guy then you will need a while to get used to this thing. Another note, the new HD channels from DTV are only going to be had off oftheir DVR.

Hope this helps.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:33 pm

If you got the new 5lnb dish, its useless without the Mpeg4 tuner.. you can get that for 99 from newegg with no contract.

I did that last year and bought the 5lnb off of ebay for 12 bucks. Installed everything myself and called directv to tell them I moved to Columbus... Well for HD locals directv is using spot beaming so I was out of the Columbus area... I called them back and told them I moved to Charlotte and everything now works fine... I get all the Charlotte locals in HD(I live in Augusta).

BD

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:34 pm

I failed to mention you need the HD package to get the locals in HD if you have the DTV DVR as well.

I can't believe they gave you a new 5 LNB dish and not one of their Hd DVR and 6 months of a package.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:40 pm

Danimal wrote:I failed to mention you need the HD package to get the locals in HD if you have the DTV DVR as well.

I can't believe they gave you a new 5 LNB dish and not one of their Hd DVR and 6 months of a package.

Yeah, that is horseshit. They should have done that.

Sportdan, do a google search for DirectTV customer retention. That's a different number than the main DTV number. Call them up and tell them what happened and you can probably haggle a reduced/free price, free HD package for a few months, etc. Look for any new customer HD offers on their Web site, too, and use that as your negotiating point. Being in St. Louis, once you get the HD package and tuner, you should get your locals through your dish without the need for an antenae.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:57 pm

bdunn13 wrote:If you got the new 5lnb dish, its useless without the Mpeg4 tuner.. you can get that for 99 from newegg with no contract.

How do you figure it's useless? I've got the new HD-DVR that utilizes the 5lnb dish, but the software on it sucks my ass, so it's sitting in my garage until they get some stable software on it, all the while I continue to use my HD-Tivo that I've had for the last two years...so while you're not getting your locals over the dish (I am cuz I'm in LA), it's not 'useless' as you say.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:08 pm

The new birds run on mpeg4 so if you don't have a mpeg 4 tuner then your dish is acting as a 3lnb dish. And if you have the new DVR - then you have a mpeg4 tuner.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:11 pm

bdunn13 wrote:The new birds run on mpeg4 so if you don't have a mpeg 4 tuner then your dish is acting as a 3lnb dish. And if you have the new DVR - then you have a mpeg4 tuner.

Yeah, but running the 5lnb dish as a 3lnb doesn't hurt performance or anything...you're just not going to be able to get your HD Locals over the dish unless you're in NY or LA. That is the only downside in my book. The reception and sound on the Mpeg 4 channels seems to be worse than the Mpeg 2 (or whatever the old channels are on). I'm waiting until all of the 'regular' tv shows my girl and I watch are over to put the new HD-DVR box back in. I mean...missing 2 or 3 shows a week is unacceptable when the Tivo rarely (if ever) misses something.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:12 pm

I'm almost 100% certain I have the Tivo HD10-250. I've also had the HD package for several months now, watching mainly just ESPN, ESPN2, and Discovery. It wasn't until sometime last year that the local channels were available in HD. I made an appointment a while back for someone to come to house and install the 5 LNB dish. However, the installer said they were taking more down than putting up because of the issues with the dish itself. At that point, I declined having him install it.

Well, since that time I just recently moved my tv down to the basement, and thought it'd be a good time to have the dish installed. It didn't cost me a dime. However, now I come to learn I need an add on to get the local channels in hd. So, thank you everyones advice.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:14 pm

By the way, does anyone know when Directv is adding more HD channels? I've seen many advertisements about 150 channels being broadcast in HD.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:15 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
bdunn13 wrote:The new birds run on mpeg4 so if you don't have a mpeg 4 tuner then your dish is acting as a 3lnb dish. And if you have the new DVR - then you have a mpeg4 tuner.
Yeah, but running the 5lnb dish as a 3lnb doesn't hurt performance or anything...you're just not going to be able to get your HD Locals over the dish unless you're in NY or LA. That is the only downside in my book. The reception and sound on the Mpeg 4 channels seems to be worse than the Mpeg 2 (or whatever the old channels are on). I'm waiting until all of the 'regular' tv shows my girl and I watch are over to put the new HD-DVR box back in. I mean...missing 2 or 3 shows a week is unacceptable when the Tivo rarely (if ever) misses something.

I can't compare mpeg2 vs mpeg4 over directv as I have only used mpeg4.. I can say I have seen some artifacts that should not have been there.. and during the superbowl I could see a lazer pointer or what appeared to be one moving around the screen at different times(even during commercials). This was not on regular cable... also seen audio that was out of sync - but I have seen that on normal cable as well.

Overall the best HD I have seen is OTA football on CBS.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:21 pm

bdunn13 wrote:I can't compare mpeg2 vs mpeg4 over directv as I have only used mpeg4.. I can say I have seen some artifacts that should not have been there.. and during the superbowl I could see a lazer pointer or what appeared to be one moving around the screen at different times(even during commercials). This was not on regular cable... also seen audio that was out of sync - but I have seen that on normal cable as well.

Right...that is the same stuff that I was seeing with the new box...hence the reason it's sitting in the garage right now. I realize that I have an advantage because I'm in LA and I can just go to the old box and use the old HD channels that no one else has access to. Because of that fact, the new technology is worthless to me because it is a lot less reliable.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:22 pm

sportdan30 wrote:By the way, does anyone know when Directv is adding more HD channels? I've seen many advertisements about 150 channels being broadcast in HD.

Their advertisements are misleading. When they are saying they are getting all of those "new" channels, they are referring to the local channels. So essentially, it's only like 4 or 5 channels PER MARKET which is just stupid.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:28 pm

I'm on hold with Directv customer retention right now. What she is telling me is that they overlooked the Tivo HD receiver I have. I need the HR20 DVR to get local channels right off the dish. She's checking the policy on how to swap out the two recievers. I told her I'm extremely frusturated because I spent a good deal of money on the receiver a year ago.

EDIT: They're going to waive the $99 fee to swap out the receiver. Pretty good deal, although I now have to wait for an installer again.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:42 am

Dan, the DirecTV HD DVR is garbage. Stick with your HD Tivo and buy a $20 antenna. My inlaw's live in your subdivision and I put a $20 attic antenna in for their locals and they all come in perfectly.

The problem with getting HD (mpeg4) locals from DirecTV is that you'll only get the four major networks. That means no PBS-HD (and it's subchannels, which my kids love... 24/7 cartoons on 9-3), no KPLR-HD (Cards in HD this summer), etc....

I have the 5LNB dish, w/ two HD Tivo's and one of the new mpeg4 HD receivers (to see what all of the fuss was about). My neighbor got the DirecTV HD DVR and it sucked so bad he quit them and went to Dish Network (I played around with it and it pales in comparison to the Tivo software).

If you want some more help on getting or setting up an OTA antenna for yourself, without having to rely on D* for that HD locals, head over to the St. Louis thread at AVSForum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793006

Nozzleman_216 · Post by **Nozzleman_216** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:26 am

ok, so I didn't do any research on this but since the thread is here I will pose the question. So will an HD Tivo (not a directv branded box, an actual tivo) work with direcTV? I have read a few of you saying things about the hd tivo. Maybe you guys are just using the old directv box??? I can't do that as I live too far from any city to receive OTA. Thanks guys. I could do some research on it but I just thought it was impossible and figured I better ask.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:28 am

Seminole -

The two I have are both DirecTV branded HD Tivo's... so there's no digital to analog to digital conversion... it just records straight to digital.

I believe that you can connect a DirecTV receiver to the new standalone HD Tivo's. However, it will have to go through the conversion process stated above (losing some quality in the process) and you'll have to use IR to change channels on the receiver so that it's outputting the correct channel when it's time to record (which never seems to be 100% reliable).

If you can't get local OTA HD/digital signals due to your distance from the towers, I guess you could get the standard mpeg4 HD box from them and output that to a standalone HD Tivo (although the monthly fee is much greater on the standalone boxes, whereas with DirecTV we pay only a flat $5.99 DVR for the entire account and can have as many Tivo's or DVR's as we want (I have 3... two HD Tivo's, one SD Tivo, all getting Tivo service for only $5.99). I think on the standalone boxes is somewhere around $12.99/month per box.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:01 am

Jon,

What antenna would you recommend? Also, I know absolutely nothing of installing an attic antenna, so it'd probably be a rather cumbersome process. Is there that much of a difference in terms of reception by placing it in the attic than placing it directly behind the tv?

Thanks.

Nozzleman_216 · Post by **Nozzleman_216** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:04 am

Thanks Jon, I will just call them today and see if I can get an HD DVR for a decent price or free. I will have to use theirs though, because as I understand it, the tivo (the hr10-250)unit will not pick up locals over the dish. Is this correct? At this point, any Hd receiver with recording capabilities will be better than none.

edit: nevermind, HD Locals over the DISH are Mpeg4 and only the H20 can do that. So looks like I am going to have try and swindle them somehow for one

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:43 am

Hey John my HDMI port blew out on my 10-250, I got a replacement plan on it when I bought it from Tweeter. But they no longer have them since the mode isn't made so they couldn't replacei t and they are no longer able to repair them due to some directive from DTV.

So I am hooking up the thing via component cable, which I guess is fine I don't notice much of a difference. But do you know where to get this fixed if need be?

Also thanks for the lead on the Colorado guy, I bought all my theatre equipment for my screening room from him. Spent about 10K total, but it ended up saving me about 4-5 grand. Got the Sony 1080P projector, Stweart Firehawk screen and a whole sound set up with a Denon HDMI switching receiver. Now I just need the basement to be finished to enjoy them, Drywall starts tomorrow!

Ok sorry for the threadjack.

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:00 pm

On a side note DTV has been telling me for over 2 years now whenever I ask about locals in HD, "We have plans in the next couple of months to launch new satellites and your zipcode is on the list that will receive locals in HD".

Riiiight.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:01 pm

I've had the HR20 since around September. I know people have had problems. I had a couple of cases where recordings had nothing. They are constantly updating the firmware.

I use it as my main DVR instead of the regular Tivo right next to it in the living room. It's pretty reliable now.

I agree that navigation on it, especially the trick-play modes (30 sec. slip instead of skip, no real easy way to FF in 15-min increments) are inferior to Tivo.

But the speed of the menus more than makes up the difference. If I add a Season Pass, it could take a minute sometimes. On the HR20, it's instant. You click to record a program, it's set, no waiting for a confirmation screen. Do like the Tivo programming guide better tho.

All in all, it's close enough and I paid about $120 with 2-year commitment. I don't subscribe to the HD package. Now the HR20s you only lease, so if you stop taking Direct TV, you give the DVR back. Well you can't really use it on cable so no loss there and I don't see going to cable.

I record most local channels using the MPEG4. I have access to the MPEG2 feeds of ABC, NBC and CBS out of LA. No real difference when I compare except the San Francisco station has a bad MPEG encoder so when you watch NBA games, they have some blurring or motion artifacts. But that happens on Comcast and OTA, from what I hear.

Main advantage of MPEG4 channels is that the file size of the recordings are about half the size. You can record about 30-35 hours of HD on the HR20 at MPEG2. Or you can put a bigger eSATA drive and have more storage.

There should be MPEG4 HD channels for the top 30 markets so St. Louis should be one of those.

Later this year, they will add 2 more satellites to add more markets. However, the 150 channels they're referring to are NOT spotbeam locals. They are suppose to be nationals.

For at least some time, Direct TV will have more bandwidth than cable. Not sure if they will have more than Verizon FiOS but they will add things like MTV HD, CNN HD, etc. And then you will definitely need an MPEG4 tuner or DVR.

Recently, Direct TV changed ownership. HR20 may have been designed by Rupert Murdoch's NDS, which made the boxes for Sky TV. Murdoch no longer owns Direct TV so who knows, maybe Tivo can get back in there with new designs. Not likely though, as they're trying to work with Comcast. But another MPEG4 design would be nice to see.

The Tivo Series 3 is HD and it's about $800. It will work with cable but I didn't think it would work with Direct TV or Dish Network.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:44 pm

Very interesting information wco. Thank you very much. I may end up still going with Directv's DVR, as it's not being used as our primary digital recorder. I'm glad to hear you're not having too many problems with HR 20.

Thanks agian.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:45 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Very interesting information wco. Thank you very much. I may end up still going with Directv's DVR, as it's not being used as our primary digital recorder. I'm glad to hear you're not having too many problems with HR 20.

Thanks agian.

He's in the VERY VERY VERY small minority.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:57 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Jon,

What antenna would you recommend? Also, I know absolutely nothing of installing an attic antenna, so it'd probably be a rather cumbersome process. Is there that much of a difference in terms of reception by placing it in the attic than placing it directly behind the tv?

Thanks.

Try antennaweb.org for suggestions on what type of antenna you need based on where you live. You might just need a 19 bucks set top antenna.