Tiger Woods 2007 (360/PC/PS2/PS3/PSP/XBox)

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:02 pm

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159302.html

Awesome news for 360 owners...it is about time they addressed the issue of additional courses for the consoles. Let's hope the time an effort they neglected on the PC and current gen consoles reflects in a sound game that has some long-term play value and simulation-like features for Tour mode fans. If so, the DL'd courses will be a huge hit and I hope an indication of the direction EA is taking for the future for those wanting additional courses above and beyond what ships with the game.

Game is set to ship October 17...

LAking · Post by **LAking** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:14 pm

This really doesn't sound like good news to me. EA is essentially charging pretty steep prices for content that should come with the game to begin with. After paying $60 + tax for NCAA 07 i'm not about to give them more of my money for a freakin' alternate jersey, something that has been included in sports games for years now at no extra cost. Nearly $4 for a single stadium. They have to be joking. I beg all the Madden junkies to hold back their urges to buy this crap because all you will be doing is telling EA they can get away with charging extra for this s*** every year.

Extra courses might be worth it if they include enough courses with game to start.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:23 pm

EA tries to make money anyway they can. I'm quietly growing tired of EA and their unfinished products and charge for everything attitude.

I do like NHL 07, but I could live without it and support a gaming company like 2k sports.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:38 pm

I agree with King and Mizzou. This isn't a move to benefit gamers; it's a move to line EA's pockets. And all developers will do it as a standard very soon, not just EA.

My complete thoughts on the issue. Substitute EA for Sony, and there you have it:

http://littleblender.blogspot.com/2006/ ... eriod.html

Take care,
PK

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:09 pm

I hate it, hate it, HATE IT. I do agree that this is where games are going, unless enough people can abstain from buying this kind of content. It just seems ludicrous that we're expected to pay for previously included content when the price of games has already jumped by 20%, which many of us have grudgingly accepted. I know one of the EA producers in one of these interviews gave the excuse that alternate uniforms weren't done by the time the game went gold, but I don't buy it. And $4 for a stadium download seems totally out of whack with the current ratio of game content to total retail price, if there is such a thing. I thought these were MICRO-transactions!

It really bothered me reading about all this at work today. Made me want to run home and trade in all my EA games. But I enjoy NCAA '07 too much...

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:22 pm

DivotMaker wrote:Awesome news for 360 owners

"with WAY too much disposable income on their hands." Just thought I'd finish the sentence for you. I can't think of many non-political statements ever posted here that I would disagree with more. It's horrible news.

If a single stadium is $4 WTF is a course going to cost. I'd say at least $10.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:37 pm

Yeah, this is total crap. How much you wanna bet that Tiger '08 will come with 2-4 courses out of the box and they'll claim it's to give their customers the choice of what courses they want (at $10 a piece of course) instead of EA choosing for them.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:41 pm

Yeah the only way this would be justified is if they include the same number of courses on the disc as before and then charged for additional courses.

The stadiums for football is totally pointless. For baseball, it would add something, although I think baseball games have had things like the Polo Grounds.

But how much of the price is due to MS getting its cut for transaction processing and so on?

No doubt Sony will take a cut if they offer microtransaction content too. But at least it won't be on top of a subscription fee.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:53 pm

pk500 wrote:http://littleblender.blogspot.com/2006/ ... eriod.html

Take care,
PK

Why do you single out Sony?

Right now, it's only Microsoft which has microtransactions. Sony will have them no doubt.

As I recall though, 2 or 3 years ago, at an E3 panel discussion, Sony said that they won't have online subscriptions like XBL, that their online business model would be based on microtransactions.

Obviously, MS beat them to it. But they are leveraging their subscription model to facilitate it for publishers like EA because when they get people to sign up for XBL, they have your billing info. so it's a simple matter of billing microtransactions on top of the subscription fees.

It remains to be seen if Sony will try to get people to give up their billing info. so that they can handle microtransactions billing. Beyond the games which it publishes, Sony is probably going to try to push media downloads from their music and movies divisions.

That would partly explain why they might be willing to incur the cost of including the hard drives in every PS3.

But are microtransactions (incremental revenues) something the system makers (Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo -- don't forget the Wii will let you pay for downloads of all the old games made for every previous Nintendo console including third-party games) are pushing or the game publishers?

LAking · Post by **LAking** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:58 pm

The stadiums for football is totally pointless. For baseball, it would add something, although I think baseball games have had things like the Polo Grounds.

Correct. The High Heat series had a ton of classic stadiums such as the polo grounds, ebbets field, shibe spark, etc and 3DO had nowhere near the amount of resources EA has. Just look at the 2k hockey series and how many classic teams and jerseys are included, plus a classic arena or two, and this stuff was added when they were charging $20! I'm so sick of EA Sports.

This may be slightly off topic but this is also the reason i don't want the PS3 to succeed. If everyone and their mother runs to buy a $600 console you can say goodbye to do the days of buying a brand new console for $300 or less. It's not about hating Sony or anything, i would like to own a PS3, but it's gonan hurt the consumer big time in the long run. DON'T SUPPORT THESE BUSINESS PRACTICES PEOPLE! Not that i really have to say that to anyone on this board.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:50 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
"with WAY too much disposable income on their hands." Just thought I'd finish the sentence for you. I can't think of many non-political statements ever posted here that I would disagree with more. It's horrible news.

If a single stadium is $4 WTF is a course going to cost. I'd say at least $10.

Lets back up for a minute. I really did not read the entire article until after posting here because I was only focused on what the announcment does for console golfers.

And while I am at it, I will rephrase my initial statement to

"Awesome news for TW console users who have complained loudly about EA not using XBL Marketplace to offer new courses for the console versions."

I could care less about the stadiums and all the other crap they are offering as I typically spend what little time I have to play on Tiger PC or 360. There are two ways to look at this and I think a number of you have touched on the negative aspect. If EA reduces content in the original game, then this is obviously not a good deal and it is all about money. However, who here thinks EA is not in this for the money? I don't agree with this strategy if this is how it is to go down.

On the positive side, console golfers now have the OPTION of purchasing extra courses if they want to extend their long term playability. I do not believe courses will be anywhere near $10. Keep in mind MS was offering DL content courses both real and fictional for $5 roughly 3 years ago. From what I understand this went well for MS, but unfortunately the game tanked from a commercial perspective.

However, I feel a stadium is overpriced at $4.00. Building a licensed golf course is incredibly expensive if you know everything that goes on to create that course. I don't see EA offering any less than 12 courses for each new version for the forseeable future because the added content market will take a few years to mature and settle out. And I do believe the market will dictate to them if the price they are asking for the content is too high as well as if the content in the purchased game is compromised in order to add revenue through DL content. EA has a very tough time listening to what end users want in their games, but they have NO trouble understanding what a drop in revenues mean.

I agree with much of the negative sentiment for the reasons posted and if EA does what is speculated, then they are hurting their own business and gaming in general. I believe they are smart enough to adjust directions if they see this type of trend develop.....

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:57 pm

EA can suck it, I'll download it from a torrent

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:34 pm

LAking wrote:This may be slightly off topic but this is also the reason i don't want the PS3 to succeed. If everyone and their mother runs to buy a $600 console you can say goodbye to do the days of buying a brand new console for $300 or less. It's not about hating Sony or anything, i would like to own a PS3, but it's gonan hurt the consumer big time in the long run. DON'T SUPPORT THESE BUSINESS PRACTICES PEOPLE! Not that i really have to say that to anyone on this board.

Yes, let's have Sony lose so MICRO-FREAKING-SOFT can rule the landscape... maybe the most villified corporation in the history of civilization, which was convicted, yes CONVICTED of being a monopoly and general worldwide pain in the ass. Please Sony lose... let M$ have it all. And oh yeah, for the last time it's a $500 console...

Back to the topic, if Tiger shipped at $19.99 with one course and you could pick and choose your courses in the Marketplace then that would be acceptable. I have heard some say that a potential future of microtransactions is that games will ship in a bare bones fashion for budget prices (or even free) and then you can "build your own game" with microtransactions. I guess Sony and M$, possibly even Nintendo will be nickel and diming us to death for the next decade...

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:38 pm

Kazuya wrote:I have heard some say that a potential future of microtransactions is that games will ship in a bare bones fashion for budget prices (or even free) and then you can "build your own game" with microtransactions. I guess Sony and M$, possibly even Nintendo will be nickel and diming us to death for the next decade...

That would suck a fat one. There goes the Ebay market...my mainline for selling games at a minimal loss after purchase. F*ck that.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:43 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Kazuya wrote:I have heard some say that a potential future of microtransactions is that games will ship in a bare bones fashion for budget prices (or even free) and then you can "build your own game" with microtransactions. I guess Sony and M$, possibly even Nintendo will be nickel and diming us to death for the next decade...
That would suck a fat one. There goes the Ebay market...my mainline for selling games at a minimal loss after purchase. F*ck that.

Yeah, I didn't even think of that... of course, this already exists in some fashion on the PC with MMOs... they were practically giving away the original EverCrack I at the end of it's lifecycle, just so they could get your subscription fee. And of course, no used sales for us would sit fine with the game makers.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:59 pm

You know, I'll build a new pc before I lay down for console bs. If games start to ship, "bare bones". I'll sell my 360 and become a "pc" only gamer.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:05 am

If MS priced the X360 at $200/300, Sony would have had to price lower as well.

MS also probably made the 2 configuration thing palatable too.

The bare-bones/microtransaction thing is the same BS that Polyphony are planning for GT.

I think recurring revenues are their goal. Just as Everquest made everyone want to make MMORPGs with subscriptions and only a handful of games built a big subscriptions revenue stream, I would guess only a few games are able to pull it off.

Unfortunately, those few games might be the biggest games.

If EA and other big publishers go to this, they will probably cut back a lot of staff, since they don't have to hire so many to meet deadlines or produce a lot of content. So if the industry sheds a lot of talent, games may become more homogenous (than they are already) as a relatively small group of artists crank out incremental content for several games.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:13 am

I guess I should point out that all of the stuff indicated that the games (and now that I think about it, maybe it was the Gran Turismo pricing like wco said) would also have to ship in full-featured versions, since not everyone has the intention of going online with their consoles. I think the guise (for nickel and diming us until the end of time) is supposed to be that if you don't care for all of the cars that shipped in GT4 or the courses in Tiger Woods, you can pick and choose what you want, spending anywhere from the cost of admission to up and beyond MSRP. I have to say that this could be appealing in a few rare instances, but overall it seems like an excuse for the publishers to do less work and make more money.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:36 am

From what I understand this went well for MS, but unfortunately the game tanked from a commercial perspective.

Actually, looking back at MS and their sports line-up. They didn't tank, MS just needed sports content to fill its Xbox line-up. They new the EA Sports would be slow to get on board and they needed to offer titles to increase its line-up. Links, Fever, Inside Drive, Rivals were filler for the Xbox line-up.

If MS thought this games were anything but that they would still be cranking out games.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:34 am

After reading the story I agree with OnlookerDelay:

Be advised that the "courses and pro-shop items for Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07", mentioned in this story are more than likely not "additional" courses or items... they are locked content for which you are "paying" to have unlocked. This is what Chip Lange alluded to when IGN called him on it in their interview on this same story today. Paying for locked content goes against my grain. But here I was thinking that we were going to be seeing additional courses (beyond the advertised 12) available for as purchaseable downloads. This just puts a bigger cloud of uncertainty on Tiger Woods 07 360, in my opinion.

Sounds like the courses for Tiger Woods are already on the disc. You just pay for points to unlock them early.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:36 am

Double post. Site is running very slow this fine morning.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:36 am

Triple!

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:35 am

JRod wrote:
From what I understand this went well for MS, but unfortunately the game tanked from a commercial perspective.
Actually, looking back at MS and their sports line-up. They didn't tank, MS just needed sports content to fill its Xbox line-up. They new the EA Sports would be slow to get on board and they needed to offer titles to increase its line-up. Links, Fever, Inside Drive, Rivals were filler for the Xbox line-up.

If MS thought this games were anything but that they would still be cranking out games.

Links 2004 did indeed tank commercially. The Producer for Links stated as much publicly when he left IndieGames to work with MS on developing content for the 360. It is a shame that Links 2004 and the PC version tanked because those games were good and they kept competitive pressure on EA to some extent. The smartest move EA could make for the TW franchise is to turn the entire franchise over to Headgate Studios (developer of the PC version and course creation on the 06 360 version). However, that would make FAR too much sense....

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:13 am

wco81 wrote:
pk500 wrote:http://littleblender.blogspot.com/2006/ ... eriod.html

Take care,
PK
Why do you single out Sony?

Because Sony executives are going public with their lies, another in a long list of perceived missteps before the launch of this console.

And the last four paragraphs of that blog entry criticize microtransactions in general, taking pains to point out that Microsoft and Nintendo either have them or have plans for them.

So I hardly think it's a free pass for everyone but Sony.

wco81 wrote:But are microtransactions (incremental revenues) something the system makers (Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo -- don't forget the Wii will let you pay for downloads of all the old games made for every previous Nintendo console including third-party games) are pushing or the game publishers?

I think it's both. I would think the hardware manufacturers will get a cut of those microtransaction fees even if they're not doing the billing because they are providing the platform from which software companies can rake in the lemming cash.

Take care,
PK

wpw721 · Post by **wpw721** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:55 am

What about the problems micro transactions will create for online gaming? It will create literally thousands of configurations of the same game. I see mismatches all over the place much like in R factor (barebones pc racing game with tons of free downloadable content). I jump online to race only to realize everyone is racing the newest mod or track, so then I cant race with many people until I go download it. Its very frustrating and time consuming when I just want to race. R factor has me frustrated and the downloadable content is free.

Have developers even considered this issue? People will be so splintered online it will just be a mess.

Digital Sportspage

Tiger Woods 2007 (360/PC/PS2/PS3/PSP/XBox)

Tiger Woods 2007 (360/PC/PS2/PS3/PSP/XBox)

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