OT: LOST Season 3 Discussion **** SPOILERS ****

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:24 pm

I'll continue to watch because it's one of the better-looking HDTV shows (although I won't bother with CSI and the like).

But when they're showing how this couple met (and obviously, they're going to do more in the future beyond them actually bumping into each other) or how much grifting Sawyer did or how life changed for Hurley after winning the Lotto, I tend to tune out until they get to the island part.

So they showed us the feet and legs of The Others (cue dramatic music.).

Maybe if we're lucky, they'll show the torsos in the future.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:11 pm

I generally agree with the 'getting boring' sentiments around here. I keep watching the show, but I've been known to get p'ed off at it once in a while for the cheap tricks. I still don't forgive them for the three episode set-up of a character for a cheap 'dynamite is dangerously unstable' joke.

What bothers me the most about last night, though, is that they seem to have completely changed the character of Jin. So, in this episode, he reveals himself to have a strong moral center, to the point of quitting a job he has coveted because his boss insulted 'people like him.' Yet, we already know that he became a heavy for his father in law, a real knee-breaker. Huh? Which is it, guys? Is he the pragmatic, 'gotta do what ya gotta do' guy who ends up murdering people for a crime lord, or the heart-of-gold, 'I don't need money to be happy,' strongly centered moral individual?

These inconsistencies are not, I don't think, unique to his character. There have been traces of it last season in the characters and back-stories of Kate and Sawyer, maybe others. They are playing some dangerous games, these writers. They paint themselves into corners, or come very close, and then to get out of it, just conveniently drop/forget story lines, plot elements, etc.

Very much like long-running soaps. But shot on film in Hawaii, not on crappy video in some stage in mid-town!

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:12 pm

wco81 wrote: But when they're showing how this couple met (and obviously, they're going to do more in the future beyond them actually bumping into each other) or how much grifting Sawyer did or how life changed for Hurley after winning the Lotto, I tend to tune out until they get to the island part.

WCO, I understand that, and I do realize that it's different strokes for different folks, but one of the things I love about Lost is that they take the time to develop their characters. There are so many TV shows where the characters don't matter to what's happening with the story, or they are just two-dimensional types. Lost unfolds more like fiction does, where they take the time to explore a character's past to help you understand and sympathize with him or her.

I do think they have dragged their feet a little too much this season, but that's partly because, unlike most TV shows, they're trying to fit a finite story within the structure of a fixed TV season. They inevitably have to pad or make compromises to do that. 24 suffers from the same problems. So far, Lost hasn't dragged enough for me to get too annoyed.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:19 pm

Zeppo wrote: What bothers me the most about last night, though, is that they seem to have completely changed the character of Jin. So, in this episode, he reveals himself to have a strong moral center, to the point of quitting a job he has coveted because his boss insulted 'people like him.' Yet, we already know that he became a heavy for his father in law, a real knee-breaker. Huh? Which is it, guys? Is he the pragmatic, 'gotta do what ya gotta do' guy who ends up murdering people for a crime lord, or the heart-of-gold, 'I don't need money to be happy,' strongly centered moral individual?

But Zeppo, it makes sense when you consider the timeline. Jin is still a hard-working, morally strong guy when he first meets Sun. He doesn't get twisted until later, over the course of many years of working for his father-in-law. Now the island is his chance to redeem himself, the way it is for many of the other survivors.

I do agree with you about Arzt and the dynamite. His whole character was poorly managed last season -- they should have just slapped a red Federation shirt on him.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:43 pm

"They are playing some dangerous games, these writers. They paint themselves into corners, or come very close, and then to get out of it, just conveniently drop/forget story lines, plot elements, etc."

I know the standards are very different, but what you wrote reminded me of a Mexican soap opera I watched on Telemundo called Anita no te Rajes. The main male character got shot in the arm by his ex-wife's goons, then got into a car accident hours later and hurt his head so badly he suffered from amensia.

He was taken directly to hospital in an ambulance who operated on his brain injuries, but the bullet wound and bullet in his arm was NEVER mentioned again, simply because there was no way to explain it that wouldn't lead to his ex-wife being arrested by the cops. And the show had months left to go before that super-b*tch got her just desserts and fell to her death. So the "missing bullet" became a huge recurring joke among fans of the show.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:34 pm

I avoided this topic because I didn't get to see the episode until tonight and man I wasn't expecting everyone to be so down.

This is a charcter driven show. The backstories tell us more about the characters. The island itself is another character, and we learn about that each week as well. That orientation film was akin to an island flashback.

That is the way the show was all last season, you guys were expecting it to change?

Lost's rating have actually improved from last season, because of word of mouth and people watching Season 1 on DVD. I don't see too many people dropping out.

As for the making it up as you go along. I watched the season 1 DVD extras, and they pretty much said the sat down and wrote the whole story arc in outline form. They already know the major plot points, how it will end etc. Sure they didn't write every episode of the series, no show does that. So I am not sure where that rumor started other then in the Lost group by fans who want anwsers and do not want to wait.

I guess my biggest question for some of you is why would you continue to watch a show you say is boring and lacks focus?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:47 am

Hell, I still love the show. I love the way the characterization develops. Series need episodes like "Lost" on Oct. 19 -- shows that develop character and set the table for an upcoming monster episode.

That's what separates "Lost" from soaps and many other primetime dramas -- the writers don't feel the need to put a rocket propulsion pack on the plot in every single episode.

That quality was what made "Homicide: Life on the Streets" so much different -- and better -- than "NYPD Blue" and why I still think "Homicide" remains the greatest drama ever shown on television.

Take care,
PK

Airdog · Post by **Airdog** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:10 am

I don't mind a couple of the slower episodes because it does develop the characters better. Like others have said, this show depends a lot more on every single character unlike other shows. I feel that the show would lose something if any of the characters were "permanently lost" other than say, maybe Shannon - she really seems to be getting pretty expendable at this point, although it would be somewhat of a pity to kill her off after the big build-up story with Boone. But, if she continues to see Walt and run off into the forest I think she'll be dying pretty shortly.

Although the trailer for the next show seemed to paint Sawyer as a likely victim, I don't see it happening. His character is terrific and I think that he's got a lot left in him as far as development.

The next episode will obviously be a thriller type to reel back in a lot of people who seem to be losing interest and then it will probably get back to telling backstories - there's 23 other people that have to be somewhat accounted for. I hope that they only use one episode to explain most of what happened though - it would be really distracting to divert the story away from the already highly fleshed out characters.

Furthermore, I don't think that peoples' reactions would be so pissy if there wasn't a three week wait between this and the next episode. That really does suck.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:44 am

Airdog wrote: if any of the characters were "permanently lost" other than say, maybe Shannon - she really seems to be getting pretty expendable at this point, although it would be somewhat of a pity to kill her off after the big build-up story with Boone. But, if she continues to see Walt and run off into the forest I think she'll be dying pretty shortly.

Careful what you wish for

I am only speculating, so this is not a spoiler.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:33 am

Danimal wrote:I guess my biggest question for some of you is why would you continue to watch a show you say is boring and lacks focus?

Dude, this is the first time I've went off on the show. The show just aired 2 days ago, and there hasn't been a new one for me to skip yet.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:08 am

matthewk wrote:
Danimal wrote:I guess my biggest question for some of you is why would you continue to watch a show you say is boring and lacks focus?
Dude, this is the first time I've went off on the show. The show just aired 2 days ago, and there hasn't been a new one for me to skip yet.

An there won't be for 3 weeks, should give you time to get it out of your system.

I might suggest Threshold on CBS, I am finding it a good show, it has a running plot line, but the episodes are contained. If you're looking for another good show IMO, Threshhold is the best of the new sci-fi crop.

Fshguy · Post by **Fshguy** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:39 pm

Zeppo wrote:What bothers me the most about last night, though, is that they seem to have completely changed the character of Jin. So, in this episode, he reveals himself to have a strong moral center, to the point of quitting a job he has coveted because his boss insulted 'people like him.' Yet, we already know that he became a heavy for his father in law, a real knee-breaker. Huh? Which is it, guys? Is he the pragmatic, 'gotta do what ya gotta do' guy who ends up murdering people for a crime lord, or the heart-of-gold, 'I don't need money to be happy,' strongly centered moral individual?

I think you have the whole Jin thing wrong Zeppo. He had to start working for Sun's father to get his approval. There's a whole episode about this. Her father makes Jin "deliver" a message to some minister. I think he goes back twice without deliver the type of message that her dad wants. The last time, her father tells Jin to take along this hitman to kill the minister. Instead of letting the minister be killed, Jin ends up beating him up. That's the blood we see on Jin in other episodes. After this point, Jin comes to terms with his father in the old fishing village and decides to escape to America with Sun after delivering the watch to regain what he had lost.

See episode "In Translation", episode 17 on the Abc website.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:03 pm

Holy s***!

What an ending.

RallyMonkey · Post by **RallyMonkey** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:56 pm

Holy s***!

What an ending.

Good thing too. I was pretty disappointed in much of the episode, and then WHAM!!! they hit you right between the eyes with that ending. Things are about to pick up in a big way.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:50 am

RallyMonkey wrote:
Holy s***!

What an ending.
Good thing too. I was pretty disappointed in much of the episode, and then WHAM!!! they hit you right between the eyes with that ending. Things are about to pick up in a big way.

Felt the same way, Rally. Spent most of the episode being more impressed with how the show looked (first time seeing it in HD) than what was going on. Walt's creepy appearance in the tent was the only jolt of adrenaline, but then they roped me in during the final minutes.

The preview for next week sounded pretty interesting as well, so I hope this means they're picking up the pace.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:54 am

Brando70 wrote:The preview for next week sounded pretty interesting as well, so I hope this means they're picking up the pace.

This could be said just about every week.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:02 am

I wasn't that excited by the ending but thought the story got back on track compared to the previous 2 weeks.

But with the previews, are we starting over now? Are we supposed to go through the whole story of the 2nd survivors like we did with the first? Why not just get to the point already.

vader29 · Post by **vader29** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:54 am

Inuyasha wrote:But with the previews, are we starting over now? Are we supposed to go through the whole story of the 2nd survivors like we did with the first? Why not just get to the point already.

That's what it looks like, but since there only seems to be 4 or 5 main characters from the other side of the island maybe their background stories will be quick.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:04 am

I think you're going to get the whole other survivors stories in one extended episode, or at least that is the word on the street,

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:07 am

Inuyasha wrote:I wasn't that excited by the ending but thought the story got back on track compared to the previous 2 weeks.

But with the previews, are we starting over now? Are we supposed to go through the whole story of the 2nd survivors like we did with the first? Why not just get to the point already.

What I thought worked was that the survivors told the story of their encounter with The Others, and next week it appears we'll get to see what happened. Actually makes me more interested to find out what happened.

I don't mind the flashbacks, but last night's was not very good, very stereotypical like last year's "how Charlie started doing drugs" episode. Plus, you already knew the most interesting part of Shannon's past.

I am hopeful that the front story will get moving along again. I enjoy Lost enough to put up with a few episdoes that keep it in a holding pattern.

NoJoke · Post by **NoJoke** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:54 am

The holding pattern is my biggest gripe so far. I was glad to see that someone finally has run into the guys from the boat. Now if we can just get the other survivors to meet Jack, Locke and the gang, the show can start moving forward. I mean they have been trekking through the woods since October (with the three weeks of repeats). Get there already!

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:20 pm

Little surprised about the griping on this episode. Other than Shannon's flashback which was kinda not needed, I thought this episode was good. The ending was great imo. Gives them all sorts of directions to go in from there.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:34 pm

The ending was the only thing of substance.

The trek was ho-hum and besides the cliche about wasted youth, you had Parenthood with Charlie and Corrine. That is pure padding.

But the much-promoted death of a regular was driven by things external to the story/plot. Supposedly the one who's apparently dead is getting a lot of movie offers. Plus this is sweeps month so what better way to jazz up the ratings than have an "event" like a death and to promote the hell out of it?

Boone also probably died on an episode originally aired in Feb or May sweeps.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:49 pm

I think the writers on LOST are FEMA employees. It's takes them forever to get anywhere.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:34 pm

I can't believe that after all the hype and BS about 'this season we're going to get to the real situation on the island, big answers will be revealed,' we're now going to go 'back to the beginning.'

Actually I'm not surprised.

So, we've seen one crazy Aussie, who got roped into pushing the buttons for three years, "brother," and a creepy orientation film, and nothing more. Personally, I think by keeping the 'back of the plane' story in the dark, they could have mined that for a lot of useful things going forward. But I guess that's the point; the need to have some new plot elements to go forward. Maybe it's just me, but I'm more interested in seeing the characters I've already gotten to know develop their relationships further, and continue the fight for survival and discovery; not that excited about a whole new cast of characters getting pillaged and terrorized by the 'others.' But I guess it's only two hours of programming time. I am a little disappointed in Jen Rodriguez. I think the big black guy is tremendous, however, but Jen is just not doing it for me. I'm just not buying her performance for whatever reason.

I will say that I am enjoying 'Invasion' quite a bit. I'll admit I've liked it since the first episode. There is a soapy element of everything that goes on in the town goes through these main characters (the main doctor, the Sherriff, the head Park Ranger), but hey, it's a TV show. But the cast is tremendous, and the famliy dynamics are really good. It's all pretty messy stuff, and then you add in this insidious and mysterious external threat, with a nice dose of secret military conspiracy stuff, and I'm digging it. Looks great in HD, too.

Digital Sportspage

OT: LOST Season 3 Discussion SPOILERS