DivotMaker wrote:The only differences I can clearly see today are that the nation got the "change" that slightly more than half the voters wanted.
Just pointing this out, because I think this point has been made a few times in this thread. A six-point margin of victory in the electoral college is pretty healthy. Compared to past years
It's a similar margin of victory to the elections from 1988-1996...the only real blowout we've had in the last 30 years was 1984. And measured by percent vote for the Democratic candidate, it's the biggest percentage of the vote since 1964. It's not 1984, but it's still a pretty big win.
DivotMaker wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I don't support Bush today. He did alot of things the wrong way, but he did not do things all by himself.
You're right...he had an awful lot of help from Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Rove, etc. Fortunately, their days are either over or just about to be a part of the horrible past, too.
You only have to look at the results in CA. Obama won 61% of the vote here but Prop 8 won 52%.
Obama won all the big counties in the state while Prop 8 won all the big counties in SoCal.
Only glimmer of hope is that it was older voters, over 65, who voted for Prop 8 while the youngest voters voted against it by the biggest margins.
Also think that Obama's victories in places like IN, OH and to a lesser extent PA, WI and MI are provisional. The economic declines in these states have been going on for a long time (although accelerated in this decade).
Even if we backed out of the WTO, Obama can't force companies to keep or create jobs in these places. Nobody is going to build computers, iPods and cellphones in these states and it may be a long time, if ever, before they build cars there like they used to.
I haven’t contributed much to these political threads because I believe a man’s politics is in the same territory as his wife or his religion as things that should be kept private and not discussed. Despite my belief I do respect that others don’t feel the same way and do enjoy discussing politics. For me, though, last night transcended politics.
Race relations is something that I hold near and dear to my heart and I have spent my whole life behaving in such a manner as to try and make our country a better place to live. I grew up in a predominantly white area but wanted to live in a multicultural neighborhood when it came time to start my family. I wanted my daughter to view people as people rather than view them as white people or black people. I am so glad to see that she does exactly that.
I have spent my life confronting racism rather than ignoring it. I once narrowly avoided a situation coming to blows in a Nashville bar telling a group of guys that I didn’t appreciate them referring to black people as niggers. You better believe I was scared but I know in my heart that what I did was right. Anyone who has been on Xbox Live with me knows that I immediately jump on any racists comments and put people in their place whether it gets through to them or not. I am actually surprised that my Xbox Live rep isn’t terrible considering how many times I have done that.
When my daughter was born it was into a country that was just going to war with a racial tension that was palpable. Last night I was holding my daughter watching people dancing and shedding tears of joy for our countries new leader. It was a moment not many people thought would ever happen as little as 2 years ago. A moment that many people still doubted would ever happen even as it was unfolding. And when that moment came I thought to myself with tears streaming down my face, “Now this is the country I wanted for my daughter.”
I don’t know where President elect Obama will take this country economically or with his foreign policies. I also realize that his election has not magically erased our countries sordid history or racism nor does it mean that racism is a thing of the past. What I do know is that his election brought about one of the greatest moments in our nations history as it is the single biggest leap towards healing what is in my opinion the biggest problem we continue to face that we will ever or have ever seen. Words cannot describe how happy I am with America right now.
I am a patient boy.
I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait.
My time is water down a drain.
DivotMaker wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I don't support Bush today. He did alot of things the wrong way, but he did not do things all by himself.
You're right...he had an awful lot of help from Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Rove, etc. Fortunately, their days are either over or just about to be a part of the horrible past, too.
You convienently left out Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Frank, etc... This mess is not a one-party problem.
Unfortunately, the names I loisted are not just a part of our past, but or near future as well.
I'd also leave Rice off that list. I don't think she's been the cause of any problems (cue the flood of links to prove she's evil...). I think she's been one of the few bright spots over the past few years.
Just wanted to chime in as I wait for my flight to Shanghai. Congratulations America, congratulations Obama. A historic election followed by millions around the world. As I was watching the Canucks game at the garage last night, they even announced the results in the big screen whne the crowd applauded loudly.
Now comes the real work for Obama. He's inheriting an incredible mess and he'll have a huge task ahead of him. I just hope that America will give him the time and patience to lead. A historic moment for African-Americans, one of those events where you buy a newspaper and you want to keep it for life. An event where historians will gather together and talk about it for awhile.
Congrats to McCain too for running a fair campaign. He said it best: 'Obama was my opponent yesterday, today he's my president'. Living in Vancouver where multiculturalism is not a choice but a fact, I hope your new leader will bridge the gap together in your great nation. I know the World is waiting anxiosuly.
XXXIV wrote:The U.S. imperial army wasnt there when they struck in 01. Any excuse to kill for the human waste.
America was, is and always will be hated as long as its on top.
Osama bin Laden (not to be confused with Obama an' Biden) has been fighting against the heavy American military presence in the Middle East, particularly Saudi Arabia, since the end of the first Gulf War:
XXXIV wrote:The U.S. imperial army wasnt there when they struck in 01. Any excuse to kill for the human waste.
America was, is and always will be hated as long as its on top.
Osama bin Laden (not to be confused with Obama an' Biden) has been fighting against the heavy American military presence the Middle East, particularly Saudi Arabia, since the end of the first Gulf War:
You only have to look at the results in CA. Obama won 61% of the vote here but Prop 8 won 52%.
Obama won all the big counties in the state while Prop 8 won all the big counties in SoCal.
Only glimmer of hope is that it was older voters, over 65, who voted for Prop 8 while the youngest voters voted against it by the biggest margins.
Also think that Obama's victories in places like IN, OH and to a lesser extent PA, WI and MI are provisional. The economic declines in these states have been going on for a long time (although accelerated in this decade).
Even if we backed out of the WTO, Obama can't force companies to keep or create jobs in these places. Nobody is going to build computers, iPods and cellphones in these states and it may be a long time, if ever, before they build cars there like they used to.
Which is why I think this is similar to the '76 election. Both elections featured outsider candidates who were previously very low profile beating legacy candidates associated with a period of enormously unpopular GOP rule. And both are liberal candidates winning victories in a center-right environment.
I would argue that Bush's personal behavior and polcies were not even 1% as damaging in the short or long terms as Nixon's, but it's essentially moot. The electorate despises Bush at this pont, and that's all that matters.
Hopefully the Obama administration is chastened by Carter's experience. Carter saw in his victory a mandate to introduce new and dangerous elements into our foreign policy while taking actions which were actually counterproductive to economic recovery.
Of course there is a key difference in that Carter was never on good working terms with his own party in Congress, whereas Obama is one with them. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen.
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
DivotMaker wrote:The only differences I can clearly see today are that the nation got the "change" that slightly more than half the voters wanted.
Just pointing this out, because I think this point has been made a few times in this thread. A six-point margin of victory in the electoral college is pretty healthy. Compared to past years
It's a similar margin of victory to the elections from 1988-1996...the only real blowout we've had in the last 30 years was 1984. And measured by percent vote for the Democratic candidate, it's the biggest percentage of the vote since 1964. It's not 1984, but it's still a pretty big win.
Considering the enormous cloud of W and this current Administration and its incredibly low approval ratings hanging over McCain, along with the tremendous disdain the media has for the current Administration, a 6 point difference in the POPULAR VOTE is nothing to write home about, IMO.
McCain's biggest failure as I see it is that he could never shake the stigma of his association with the Bush Administration and the Democratic Party's insistence that it would be 4 more years just like the past 8.
In terms of turnout, America voted in record numbers. It looks like 136.6 million Americans will have voted for president this election, based on 88 percent of the country's precincts tallied and projections for absentee ballots, said Michael McDonald of George Mason University. Using his methods, that would give 2008 a 64.1 percent turnout rate, the highest since 65.7 percent in 1908, he said.
In fact, Ayers said that he knew Obama only slightly: “I think my relationship with Obama was probably like that of thousands of others in Chicago and, like millions and millions of others, I wished I knew him better.”
In fact, Ayers said that he knew Obama only slightly: “I think my relationship with Obama was probably like that of thousands of others in Chicago and, like millions and millions of others, I wished I knew him better.”
Not geek. Radical terrorist radically hell-bent on absolutely destroying America and turning our children into communist drones, all via his cozy relationship with his BFF Barack Hussein Obama.
Not geek. Radical terrorist radically hell-bent on absolutely destroying America and turning our children into communist drones, all via his cozy relationship with his BFF Barack Hussein Obama.
Yep. We got that all wrong. He's a real sweetheart.
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
Not geek. Radical terrorist radically hell-bent on absolutely destroying America and turning our children into communist drones, all via his cozy relationship with his BFF Barack Hussein Obama.
He's just a poor innocent man who is misunderstood.
DivotMaker wrote:McCain's biggest failure as I see it is that he could never shake the stigma of his association with the Bush Administration and the Democratic Party's insistence that it would be 4 more years just like the past 8.
Bingo. Obama shrugged off every potential guilt by association while hammering home, himself, a perception that McCain was a continuation of GWB. McCain's "You should have run 4 years ago" was delivered far too late. Many races hinge on the perception of the incumbent, and McCain's inability to shake the association (deservedly or not) with GWB doomed his campaign.
Well that didn't take long. Apparently the Carter analogies aren't lost on Putin either.
NY Times
MOSCOW — In a wide-ranging attack on the United States as it elected a new president, the Russian leader Dmitri A. Medvedev warned on Wednesday that Moscow might deploy short-range missiles in the Baltic region to counter a perceived threat from a proposed American missile defense shield in Eastern Europe.
Mr. Medvedev also proposed to extend the constitutional term of the presidency from four years to six — a move that could enable future Russian presidents to serve 12 years in two consecutive terms. His remarks, in his first state of the nation address since assuming the presidency in May, were delivered within hours of the election of Barack Obama and offered a chilling glimpse into the potential issues and tensions confronting the new American leader when he takes office in January. His comments also seemed at odds with the broader groundswell of support for the American president-elect from many governments across the globe.
In his speech, Mr. Medvedev did not congratulate Mr. Obama on his victory, saying only that he hoped that “our partners — the new U.S. administration — will make a choice in favor of a full-fledged relationship with Russia.”
But he sent a telegram later saying that “Russian-American relations have historically been an important factor for stability in the world and have great importance and sometimes key significance for resolving many of today’s international and regional problems.”
‘“I hope for a constructive dialogue with you based on trust and consideration of each other’s interests,” Mr. Medvedev’s telegram said, according to the Kremlin Web site.
In his speech a few hours earlier, Mr. Medvedev spoke of a “new configuration for the military forces of our country” that would include abandoning plans to dismantle some missile regiments and the stationing of missiles in Russia’s Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad.
“We earlier planned to take three missile regiments within the missile division stationed in Kozelsk off combat duty and discontinue the division itself by 2010. I have decided to refrain from these plans,” Mr. Medvedev said.
I was only slightly bemused at the notion of a Secretary of State Kerry. After reading this story I went from bemused to paralyzed with fear.
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
The economic view of why McCain lost. People say the meltdown doomed McCain but it can be argued it's how he handled the meltdown:
At a time when the Bush administration was nationalizing big portions of the (grateful) financial services sector, charges that Obama was a socialist, the redistributor-in-chief, the second coming of Eugene V. Debs, failed to gain traction.
The third fatal date? Oct. 15, when the third debate took place. Throughout the fall, Obama had rounded up financial icons such as former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker and Warren Buffett to serve as surrogates. They could reassure Wall Street and Main Street that Obama could steer the nation through treacherous financial waters. Rather than enlist a respected businessperson such as Mitt Romney or former eBay CEO Meg Whitman as his chief economic surrogate, McCain turned to an unlicensed plumber from Ohio. McCain mentioned "Joe the Plumber" seven times in the Oct. 15 debate.
In the ensuing weeks, McCain routinely trotted out Samuel J. Wurzelbacher's economic folk wisdom as gospel.
Warren the Investor and Paul the Central Banker vs. Joe the Plumber was never going to be much of a fair fight. Given the macroeconomic backdrop of recent years and the microeconomic disasters of recent weeks, neither was the presidential campaign, which is why Obama has won the White House.
