LANCE!

[wco81]

Heard the 500 number is exaggerated.

Came down to his word against the word of a dozen teammates, who were supposedly going to detail time and place when they doped with Armstrong.

As far as the money, is Nike sending all the of profits from the Livestrong line of products to cancer research?

[pk500]

The greatest cyclist of our generation completed a mind-boggling seventh consecutive Tour de France victory today. This guy clearly is one of the most inspirational, focused, committed and dominant athletes in history.

ALLEZ LANCE!

Take care,
PK

This is funny to read now, eh PK?

True. But I still wear my Livestrong bracelet proudly because Livestrong helps me remember the family and friends that I have lost to the greatest scourge upon mankind and also helps me think of those in the fight of their lives against this hideous disease.

Livestrong never has been about Lance or the bike for me.

[Teal]

I think it's a load of horseshit. I also think the "I knew it, they all do it" sideline commentary stuff is horseshit. Tyvel is looking for a headline. That's all this was ever about. That, and a shitload of envy.

[F308GTB]

Heard the 500 number is exaggerated.

Came down to his word against the word of a dozen teammates, who were supposedly going to detail time and place when they doped with Armstrong.

As far as the money, is Nike sending all the of profits from the Livestrong line of products to cancer research?

And passing a test is not an indication of innocence. Marion Jones passed over 100 tests. During Lance's time, where you'd fail a test if you hit a % or volume of a banned substance, it could have meant you doped but just went over the allowed limit or careful enough to stay under. Think of it like drinking and driving. You can throw back a.few drinks, be buzzed, but unless you hit the legal limit for blood alcohol, you are in the clear. Ethically, to me at least, you are still driving under the influence despite not hitting the threshold for legality.

Cycling was the same thing. One of the biggest factors in performance is your hematocrit level. We naturally have levels in the upper 30s to low 40s. WADA limit is 50. Teams knew how to dope either through EPO, transfusions, etc to get higher than Mother Nature gave us but under the WADA limit.

If you read Lance's statement, nowhere does he say he didn't dope. Basically just says he stayed within the rules, which certainly allowed doping up to the allowed limits.

[greggsand]

Deadspin had this awesome write-up about the guys who finished 2nd behind lance (who would now be the winner). Hilarious:

1999: Alex Zülle (confessed to EPO use)
2000: Jan Ullrich (suspended from 2006 Tour; banned this year and stripped of all results from 2005 on)
2001: Jan Ullrich
2002: Joseba Beloki (kept out of 2006 Tour while under doping investigation, later cleared)
2003: Jan Ullrich
2004: Andreas Klöden (accused of illegal blood transfusion in the 2006 Tour)
2005: Ivan Basso (confessed to attempted doping, suspended)

That's so great - like an Onion bit.

[Pete]

Heard the 500 number is exaggerated.

Came down to his word against the word of a dozen teammates, who were supposedly going to detail time and place when they doped with Armstrong.

As far as the money, is Nike sending all the of profits from the Livestrong line of products to cancer research?

And passing a test is not an indication of innocence. Marion Jones passed over 100 tests. During Lance's time, where you'd fail a test if you hit a % or volume of a banned substance, it could have meant you doped but just went over the allowed limit or careful enough to stay under. Think of it like drinking and driving. You can throw back a.few drinks, be buzzed, but unless you hit the legal limit for blood alcohol, you are in the clear. Ethically, to me at least, you are still driving under the influence despite not hitting the threshold for legality.

Cycling was the same thing. One of the biggest factors in performance is your hematocrit level. We naturally have levels in the upper 30s to low 40s. WADA limit is 50. Teams knew how to dope either through EPO, transfusions, etc to get higher than Mother Nature gave us but under the WADA limit.

If you read Lance's statement, nowhere does he say he didn't dope. Basically just says he stayed within the rules, which certainly allowed doping up to the allowed limits.

So you're saying he passed the tests.

[F308GTB]

So you're saying he passed the tests.

Yep. However, samples are still available for future testing should better techniques get developed. That said, put another way, what do you think of Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire?

[greggsand]

One day the cash will start running low & he'll admit to doing "something" in a book (or 60 min piece on his book or via some endeavor to make a buck). There will be tears & such & so forth & so forth. It's always the same with these dudes.

[Rodster]

One day the cash will start running low & he'll admit to doing "something" in a book (or 60 min piece on his book or via some endeavor to make a buck). There will be tears & such & so forth & so forth. It's always the same with these dudes.

Greg I seriously doubt Barry Bonds will ever admit to anything. It's one of the reasons I don't take sports in general seriously anymore. I no longer trust whether any high performing player is doing it legit. I'm of the belief that Bonds was not legit when he went on his HR rampage.

[wco81]

He still has commercial ventures like his Nike deal so he's probably not going to run out of money.

In fact if he admitted it probably kills his livelihood.

Must have FU money tho.

[greggsand]

Must have FU money tho.

Exactly what I thought when I first heard the news. He prob had a good talk with his accountant & figured he didn't need the titles & such to keep rolling. I do wonder when they unleash all the testimonials from his teammates & whatever retro drug tests takes place, will Nike and other sponsors stick with him? Then again, it's cycling so who knows what's tolerable & who knows what kind of money that equals.

[wco81]

As long as people continue to buy the bracelets and the Nike gear, they'll stick with him.

Look at how they dealt with Tiger. Cooled it for awhile and now they're back. Even if he's not winning majors, he's probably boosting ratings and selling gear.


People will continue to buy Armstrong's stuff because they like the inspirational story and he doesn't have the surly personality of Bonds. There are still people citing the 500 tests never failed line or the former teammates are all liars and cheats (but there's just no way Lance could be).

[pk500]

People will continue to buy Armstrong's stuff because they like the inspirational story and he doesn't have the surly personality of Bonds. There are still people citing the 500 tests never failed line or the former teammates are all liars and cheats (but there's just no way Lance could be).

Armstrong's ego and personality are only a few shades brighter on the surly meter than Bonds. He can be far from seashells and balloons, from what I've read.

[Pete]

So you're saying he passed the tests.

Yep. However, samples are still available for future testing should better techniques get developed. That said, put another way, what do you think of Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire?

I am just saying that the testing seems to be flawed. Yes, you passed the test but you were close to not passing so we are saying you failed.

It's kind of an invitation to dope and experiment to find just how much you can dope but stay under their testing requirements. It's just odd to me. That organization made the testing guidelines, stick by it.

And I think Bonds, McGwire and Sosa are scum.

[F308GTB]

So you're saying he passed the tests.

Yep. However, samples are still available for future testing should better techniques get developed. That said, put another way, what do you think of Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire?

I am just saying that the testing seems to be flawed. Yes, you passed the test but you were close to not passing so we are saying you failed.

It's kind of an invitation to dope and experiment to find just how much you can dope but stay under their testing requirements. It's just odd to me. That organization made the testing guidelines, stick by it.

And I think Bonds, McGwire and Sosa are scum.

Not just cycling is afflicted with this. Just look at the WADA list - some drugs are flat out not allowed, such that if the minimum detection threshold is achieved in the lab, it's a positive. Others have an upper allowable limit in the blood or urine. Even something like caffeine was banned a few years back and some want to bring back a limit on caffeine use.

The issues extend beyond cycling and were on display at the Olympics. Many believe the Jamaican runners are doped to the gills. Every country is to implement a proper drugs program, but many see Jamaica's as pretty lax. This means the top athletes may only be tested in competition. Random out-of-competition testing, left to the devices of the Jamaican drug agency, is suspect at best. Likewise there's much criticism about the Chinese program. So if you have lax out-of-competition testing, you can dope in training, flush the system closer to competition and reap the benefits of that more intense training history.

The biological passport is a step in the right direction, but even that has issues. One could take the pessimistic view and say the majority of athletes dope, so why not just let it be a free-for-all? Only problem with that is you don't want a repeat of the 90s when many young cyclists passed away in their sleep due to too thick blood from EPO use. But hey, anything for the potential victory, right?

And you wonder why baseball isn't an Olympic sport? Thank the MLB for a pathetic drug program based on the players union demands.

[wco81]

Nike and other sponsors are dropping him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/sport ... wanted=all

Heard an interview with an author who said Armstrong doped before, during and after his fight with cancer. Apparently there's a lof of specific details in the evidence against him.

[greggsand]

Much like Bonds, I haven't heard one person speak out against the charges/stories/accusations etc except lance. It's def looks bad when everyone he rode with rolls themselves & him over in crazy detail. The silver lining to cheating your ass off: he left multi-million dollar cancer support organization that has legs to survive despite of him.

I really think a full blown admission of guilt could actually help his livestrong foundation. Hell, he could write a tell all, sell millions of copies & donate the proceeds to cancer research. I can't see a downside to it at this point (beyond his ego). Looking forward a must-see 30 for 30 in the future,

[F308GTB]

As a fan of pro cycling, I have been following this whole ordeal probably more than all of you. It's not just Armstrong that is getting affected. The USADA report sent shockwaves through the entire sport. Levi Leipheimer let go by his team, Johann Bruyneel dumped by Radioshack, foreign governments opening investigations, Australian cycling organization dumping management who raced in the same era, Team Sky forcing everyone (riders, doctors, managers, coaches,...) to sign on the dotted li e about past transgressions or get the exit door, and more. I read several of the rider affivadavits and was honestly a bit shocked at the depth of the problems.

[wco81]

Much like Bonds, I haven't heard one person speak out against the charges/stories/accusations etc except lance. It's def looks bad when everyone he rode with rolls themselves & him over in crazy detail. The silver lining to cheating your ass off: he left multi-million dollar cancer support organization that has legs to survive despite of him.

I really think a full blown admission of guilt could actually help his livestrong foundation. Hell, he could write a tell all, sell millions of copies & donate the proceeds to cancer research. I can't see a downside to it at this point (beyond his ego). Looking forward a must-see 30 for 30 in the future,

Couple of weeks ago there were rumors he was going to " come clean" (pun intended?) so that he could be reinstated to complete in some other endurance competitions. He had cut ties with Livestrong (and this year the Chuckstrong was the new inspirational story about fighting cancer).

And his agent or lawyer said he'd lost a lot of potential income since these revelations came to a head in the last few months.

Now comes word that he'll fess up to Oprah, presumably on some kind of televised confession-fest.

Somehow I don't think we're going to see a hint of contrition. If he does a book or some kind of commercial venture related to the confession how many apologists will support it?

Interesting timing too, when Bonds and Clemens were denied first ballot to the HoF this week, as "punishment" for using PEDs.

[greggsand]

If (when) he confesses, it's only because of a lack or money or potential for more money. No one celebrate that. Bright side: People who continued to defend him after the 'report' came out can finally stop embarrassing themselves.

[Inuyasha]

looks like he finally admitted it. Just like baseball, I think we all knew, but didnt want to face the facts because it was a feel good moment.

Forbes says he's worth $100 million. I wonder if he'll have anything left after this. It would make sense just to keep his mouth shut and keep his money, so not sure if there are any other motives other than just coming clean.

[F308GTB]

looks like he finally admitted it. Just like baseball, I think we all knew, but didnt want to face the facts because it was a feel good moment.

Forbes says he's worth $100 million. I wonder if he'll have anything left after this. It would make sense just to keep his mouth shut and keep his money, so not sure if there are any other motives other than just coming clean.

In the endurance sports world, the rumor is he just wants to compete in triathlons. His ego is bigger than the state he (and I) lives in. There's also some other legal stuff going on and he's angling on a variety of fronts. If it didn't serve some purpose, he wouldn't be doing it. He's not that honorable a person.

[Rodster]

He should've hired Barry Bonds as his lawyer.

[pk500]

Divot is right. The main reason Lance is confessing is because he wants to become eligible again to compete professionally in triathlons and foot races.

Like Divot, I have read many stories that Armstrong's ego knows no boundaries.

He's apologizing because he was caught, not because he's sincere.

[dbdynsty25]

Divot on the brain PK?

As for Lance...I'm so sick of everything Lance and the f'n show hasn't even aired yet.