OT: LOST Season 3 Discussion **** SPOILERS ****

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:49 am

RobVarak wrote:
wco81 wrote:So Ben is doing all these things just because he needed surgery?

Um, wouldn't it be a lot easier to return to civilization and get treatment, rather than play these games with a spinal surgeon who fell out of the sky?
It might be a plan by whatshername to get Jack to kill Ben. She's was the only doctor on the island prior to Jack's arrival after all.

For the record, I don't trust Juliette as far as I can throw her. I think she is baiting Jack big time. That whole "watch the video and ignore me" shtick seemed like a ploy. Call me crazy, but that is how I see it.

Fshguy · Post by **Fshguy** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:08 pm

Diablo25 wrote: For the record, I don't trust "whatshername" as far as I can throw her. I think she is baiting Jack big time. That whole "watch the video and ignore me" shtick seemed like a ploy. Call me crazy, but that is how I see it.

I don't have a lot of trust in her either. I thought I read somewhere that her and Ben were married? In any case, I think it would be out of character for Jack to operate on somebody and intentionally harm them.

I had a random thought about the whole thing that quite possibly the Island is in a different "time". This would explain Desmond's premonitions. Also, maybe the hatch explosion caused a rift in time which is really what pulled flight 815 to the island and makes it difficult to find it.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:30 pm

I really liked Mr. Eko, yet felt nothing when he died. I thought we were finally going to get a bone thrown to us about the natue of the smoke monster, but no. Things do happen on this show, but they're so devoid of context within a long-term narrative, it's all just images on a screen for me at this point. Events are sometimes interesting, but it's been a long time since I've been moved by any of it.

I'm equally perplexed by Ben's "plan" to get Jack to operate on him. Jack's a doctor, it's part of his job to do what he can to save lives. If The Others had shown up and behaved like normal people once flight 815 crashed, helped the survivors, is there any doubt that Jack would have helped Ben? Of course, there may be things we don't know which preclude that scenario, but jeez... this show doesn't have writers so much as withholders-of-information.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:52 pm

Slumberland wrote:I'm equally perplexed by Ben's "plan" to get Jack to operate on him. Jack's a doctor, it's part of his job to do what he can to save lives. If The Others had shown up and behaved like normal people once flight 815 crashed, helped the survivors, is there any doubt that Jack would have helped Ben? Of course, there may be things we don't know which preclude that scenario, but jeez... this show doesn't have writers so much as withholders-of-information.

I can only think that Ben didn't know he needed a spine operation when he first came up with the plan to infiltrate and kidnap the plane crash victims rather than, you know, help them.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:16 pm

Ben says that he found out about the tumor the day before the plane crashed.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:23 pm

Feanor wrote: I can only think that Ben didn't know he needed a spine operation when he first came up with the plan to infiltrate and kidnap the plane crash victims rather than, you know, help them.

Except he said to Jack, as a sort of an argument for the existence of God, that the day he found out about his deadly spinal tumor, a spinal surgeon 'dropped out of the sky.' Se he didn't know the was such a man on the plane, but he was aware of his tumor when the plane crashed.

I will severely miss Mr. Ecko. I wasn't emotionally jarred by his death, but I think a big part of me simply doesn't believe he's actually dead. Something about this show makes me not trust them! lol. But I was emotionally jarred by the ridiculousness of the 'smoke monster,' which has become more risible the more they show it. It was creepy, yes, but simply unbelievable in the way it grabbed him and tossed him around. What could it be? The producers always claim there is nothing supernatural on the island, everything is explicable etc. etc. etc., and then they have a big ol' wide shot of this smoke thing doing the rag doll on Ecko.

So, they've killed Boone, one of my favorites at the start; they've discarded Walt and his father Michael, who until he lost his mind was one of my favorite characters, they've killed Boone's sister, who I was frankly glad to see go away although it was less about how annoying she was as it was bout how stupid the romance between her and Sayid felt to me, they've killed Michelle Rodriguez who had never looked worse and whose character was difficult to enjoy at best, and so on. They seem to like killing people you'd never expect, which is a nice trick to keep the audience on their toes, but can prove to be a very dangerous game on a TV show. How far can you go before you plant enough seeds of doubt in the audience that they are no longer willing to become invested in characters because they are sure they will just get killed off?

How far, indeed. Ecko was, along with Locke, my favorite character on the show by far. Well, them and the crazy French lady, who I'm still fascinated by, but who seems to not be around anymore. Did she get killed and I missed it?

BTW I like the new girl, even though her caharacter is horribly written so far, but her boyfriend is even more vacuously created. I like that they are playing a little bit with the audience's point of view; I mean, here is the classic red-shirt acknowledgement, if you will. I always got a big kick out of the extras, who seemed to me in their white tennis shoes and with their Samsonite luggage to be taken right off the tourist bus and dropped off the beach, 'Just stand there and look confused!' Now a couple of them got some lines! Yay! Will they be the butt of some bad joke the way that teacher with the dynamite was, or will they be more?

Whatever. I am curious to see how this Desmond/future thing will play out. Will he provide them with some secret info, some special knowledge of future events, that will help them get Jack et al out of the Others' clutches, or save them all from some catastrophe?

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:29 pm

I saw a report that Ecko's actor asked to leave the show so he could return to London after both of parents died fairly recently. Maybe the writers didn't want to get rid of him, but they had to.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:39 pm

Feanor wrote:I saw a report that Ecko's actor asked to leave the show so he could return to London after both of parents died fairly recently. Maybe the writers didn't want to get rid of him, but they had to.

Well, they didn't need to kill him, if they didn't want to. They could have just given him a long hiatus like they seem to have with the French lady or the interracial couple.

And certainly, that explanation helps feed the idea that they are making it up as they go along.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:48 pm

wco81 wrote:So Ben is doing all these things just because he needed surgery?

Assumption

Um, wouldn't it be a lot easier to return to civilization and get treatment, rather than play these games with a spinal surgeon who fell out of the sky?

You're assuming he can. You're assuming Walt & Michael actually got home. You're assuming he can go back to civilization, maybe he is a wanted man etc etc. Lot of assumptions to make.

The security system or the monster makes a return after a couple of years.

Couple of years? Last season eko looked into the smoke and saw images of his past.

Locke said he saw a bright light while Eko saw the smoke that thrashed him around like a ragdoll.

There's some theories that the smoke reads the hearts of people and only punishes "bad" people, which may be why they have had Eko's back story before killing him off with the smoke.

But the smoke tried to drag Locke down into a hole before Jack pulled him out.

There are a lot of theories, some of them are being portrayed as fact. for instance many people say the smoke is the islands security system as if it is fact. I never recall that being a fact, just one explanation by one of the characters.

Ratings are reportedly down this season and there's widespread discontent about the spawning of new plot threads while dropping a lot of old ones without any satisfactory resolution.

They are still drawing an average of 13-15 million a week last I checked, so I think ABC can live with a ratings dip. As for widespread discontent, don't suppose you have anything to back up that statement.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:05 pm

I've got to think that they're conning Jack with all this tumor stuff. Any chance it's Sawyer's? I could see them setting Jack up to unwittingly sabotage the surgery of one of his friends... a test of character, if you will. There seems to be a preoccupation with moral judgment on this island anyhow. Of course, this doesn't jibe with Ben asking Juliet why she showed Jack his X-rays. I don't think Jack was in earshot when he said that, so I assume the tumor really is Ben's.

I like how over at the televisionwithoutpity.com forums, some people have taken to replacing the phrase "jump the shark" with "shake the bunny". Ha!

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:56 pm

Slumberland wrote:
I like how over at the televisionwithoutpity.com forums, some people have taken to replacing the phrase "jump the shark" with "shake the bunny". Ha!

It's a testament to the show's stature that virtually every viewer who chooses to stop watching writes a blog post, posts to a forum, hires a skywriter etc., as if this is a major life decision

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:30 pm

RobVarak wrote:
Slumberland wrote:
I like how over at the televisionwithoutpity.com forums, some people have taken to replacing the phrase "jump the shark" with "shake the bunny". Ha!
It's a testament to the show's stature that virtually every viewer who chooses to stop watching writes a blog post, posts to a forum, hires a skywriter etc., as if this is a major life decision

It reminds me of that line from the Howard Stern movie about the avergae time someone listened to him who hated him, was longer then the people who liked him.

RallyMonkey · Post by **RallyMonkey** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:52 pm

Quote:
Um, wouldn't it be a lot easier to return to civilization and get treatment, rather than play these games with a spinal surgeon who fell out of the sky?

You're assuming he can. You're assuming Walt & Michael actually got home. You're assuming he can go back to civilization, maybe he is a wanted man etc etc. Lot of assumptions to make.

Don't forget a couple episodes back when he said he has been on the island his entire life.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:11 am

Spooky wrote:I thought the episode was a total let down. Bad acting (especially that new couple), bad dialogue, and killing off one of the best characters??? Are you kidding me?

I LOVE this show and have never felt like any of the episodes were particularly bad, but I was really let down last night for many reasons. I am also feeling like they have too many story lines going on and are not able to focus enough one any of them. It’s like nothing is getting accomplished in the last few episodes. I am starting to become conscious of the writers “stalling” or dragging this season out so they can stretch the show out for a few more seasons.

It seemed like in the first two seasons so much would happen in each episode. Now it feels like we barely get anything other than a few leaks and more flashbacks.

I am not going to stop watching by any means, but I am just a bit let down this season, especially after the great opening episode. And that new couple has to go (god I hope we don’t start getting back stories on them!!!!).

Agreed on all counts, but the new chick in the hatch who accompanied Locke and the gang into the jungle from the beach is pretty hot and has a fantastic rack.

The overt religious imagery with Eko in Wednesday night's episode really bothered me. Locke and Eko clearing the stones from in front of the "tomb" of the plane with Eko's brother's body, and Eko's brother is gone, "resurrected" in a way. Eko walking from the church in full priest's garb after killing the bandits, with blood of his victims and large machete in hand, almost like an Old Testament sacrifice. It's all getting a bit over the top.

And like I believe Zeppo said a couple of weeks ago, it seems like every week develops a story within a certain "camp," with other "camps" ignored. It's getting annoying.

I know the survivors are split into groups, with Jack in the dungeon/compound, Sawyer and Kate in the cages, Locke, Eko, Sayid and that crew in the jungle, and everyone else still on the beach. But it's just too damn hopscotch to spend an entire episode on Sun and Jin, for example, and then ignore them completely for the next episode.

It's almost as if Abrams and Lindelof look at their story board, all amped up on Red Bull and amphetamines, and realize: "F*CK -- we haven't done anything with character X in a week or two. Let's focus most of the entire next show on them."

There just seems to be a bit of ADD creeping into the storyline that's bothering me. It's the drama equivalent of buckshot -- very scattered.

I also didn't like to see Eko get killed, as he was a very interesting, tortured character despite the over-the-top Biblical imagery surrounding him. But I thought his final words to Locke and the way Locke said them to end the show, "He said we're next," were quite lame and not up to the standard of this show, almost as now we're supposed to be on pins and needles for the next week because the big, black boogieman cloud is going to sweep up Locke and Sayid next.

"Lost" hasn't jumped the shark for me. It remains an interesting show. But it doesn't have the same weekly propulsion and "must see Wednesday night" nature for me that it did for the entire first season and the last three episodes of last season. I record it and catch it usually by Friday or over the weekend.

"Friday Night Lights" and "Dream Team," on the other hand, I always watch the same night they're on.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:15 am

Zeppo wrote:the interracial couple.

Holy sh*t, I completely forgot about Bernard and his wife, and they played a pretty significant role at the end of last season, from what I can remember.

The characters on this show are like people at a Japanese bullet train station. Coming and going, much too fast.

Take care,
PK

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:06 pm

Rose?

I was asking my fiance a week or so ago what happened to her.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:52 pm

bdunn13 wrote:Rose?

I was asking my fiance a week or so ago what happened to her.

Yep, Rose. Forgot her name. Bernard and Rose. They just vanished, despite Bernard's return to Rose being a major plot element in an episode or two toward the end of last season.

Many characters seem to be like Handi-Wipes in this show. Use and discard.

Take care,
PK

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:32 pm

pk500 wrote:
And like I believe Zeppo said a couple of weeks ago, it seems like every week develops a story within a certain "camp," with other "camps" ignored. It's getting annoying.

They've intentionally split the filming so that the schedule is easier for cast and crew.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:40 pm

RobVarak wrote:
pk500 wrote:
And like I believe Zeppo said a couple of weeks ago, it seems like every week develops a story within a certain "camp," with other "camps" ignored. It's getting annoying.
They've intentionally split the filming so that the schedule is easier for cast and crew.

That makes sense for logistics. They can't put up every actor who had speaking parts up in Hawaii and have them wait around for an episode in which they might be featured.

Lot of these actors will get other role opportunities so the Lost producers have to either give them more scenes or cut them loose.

But it can be argued that they got into this situation because they introduced so many story threads and characters in an effort to pad the episodes.

Like the Eko back stories, which had the look and feel of Besieged. While an entertaining story, ultimately it's tangetial at best to the main story, unless they can explain how an African drug runners' plane ended up in the South Pacific. If they explain that at all, along with the old ship which had the dynamite.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:08 pm

RobVarak wrote:
pk500 wrote:
And like I believe Zeppo said a couple of weeks ago, it seems like every week develops a story within a certain "camp," with other "camps" ignored. It's getting annoying.
They've intentionally split the filming so that the schedule is easier for cast and crew.

Helps the actors; hurts the show.

Take care,
PK

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:37 pm

Just some info on Eko's demise. According to them it was the plan all along. I know that the people who want to say they are making it up as they go will just call this spin, and maybe it is.

http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/ad ... d#more-397

Oh yeah and this is effin funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_zVROAdLU&eurl=

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:05 pm

Spoiler warning....

Well, last night's finale was a waste of an hour. Although I'm sure it will be worth it to PK just to see Kate get it on

It didn't even leave me with any longing for the series to start back up again in February. Too many questions, no answers. That has been the M.O. for the series this (Fall) season.

Kate's backstory felt like nothing more than filler. We already knew she was a fugitive, and her original story had her losing her "love", who died. Was it the same guy from last night? I don't remember, but I don't think it matters anyways. Now we find out she was married before. Big deal.

So the episode ends with Jack, Kate, and Sawyer all acting stubborn and yelling at each other. I almost want the Others to just put them all out of their misery already. The characters are quickly becoming less likeable with their latest actions.

We are still waiting to find out what the cloud monster is, what the numbers mean (they've ignored this the whole season), and about 1,000 other things that I can't even remember. That's probably the hope of the writers. Throw enough new crap at us they we won't even remember all the loose ends they've left hanging out there. Just keep pummeling us with quick preview shots of things that look dramatic.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:21 pm

I have to admit, I'm kind of blah on the show so far this season, but season 2 started that way and then kicked it into gear toward the second half. I'll stick around and catch it again in February.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:47 pm

Yeah I'll continue watching but I'm not going to watch Daybreak just to catch little previews of the second half (or second two thirds) of this season of Lost.

I guess the backstory is suppose to show she ran away from love and just wanted a normal life but now, she's not going to ditch the man she loves.

The fact that the Others have to blackmail or cajole Jack into doing the surgery just doesn't make sense. They can get an operating room fully equipped (and not just with 30-40 year-old gear, the heart monitor looked much more current).

But they can't leave the island or be frank with the doctor. They have to "break" him and threaten to kill his friends. To the point where Jack drops his Hippocratic oath and has to threaten to kill Ben to help his friends get away. Of course, he doesn't know that they're on an island.

I guess they have to have antagonists actively working against the survivors to prevent them from being rescued or somehow get off the island, as when they blew up the raft and abducted the golden child (Walt) only to let him go (or so it seems) so that they could trap the spinal surgeon which their leader needs.

Because once the people get off the island, the show is over. The Nine is showing that having flashbacks to the event itself doesn't work.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:31 pm

The show is what it is....

I won't overly bash it as I've done enough of that in the past and since I still watch it, it gets hypocritical after a while. It's still entertaining enough for to watch but I learned my lesson my last season. The show is impossible imo to watch on a weekly basis as it's too frustrating and slow for that. It's truly made for DVD watching or a torrent burst which is what I did last night to catch up with all episodes of season 3 so far which I had purposely not watched.

So here are the pro's and con's from what I've seen so far.

Pro's.
* Locke is back to being an interesting character. His actions in the second season were beyond bizzare and made him look pitiful
* Desmond hasn't really done anything yet but he's an interesting character and a better actor than most of them so he always a commanding presence on screen.
* The women who interacts with Jack (forgot her name) is probably the most fascinating thing going on with the show currently. She seems manipulative and I can't tell whether she's ultimately a good or a bad character. That's impressive on a show where most of the characters are very 2-D.
* They've set up an interesting dynamic between the others because essentially I want them all murdered. That's a great core conflict .
* The Ben (Henry Gale) character is also a good protagonist. He's a viable opposition to battle against which the show has always been missing.

Cons
* The pace of the show is still glacial. Splitting the show into three camps and focusing on them individually is just another dick move that makes the show even more annoying. The only show on television where you can watch a 43 minute episode and literally nothing important happens.
* Kill the flashbacks. That plot gimmick had worn out it's welcome early in season 2.
* Killing Ecko and the plot resolution to his story were bad moves. Very unfulfilling
* None of the "others" actions really make sense. Especially this surgery.
* Show still introduce 3 new mysteries for every one it resolves. Cheap gimmick that wore out its welcome a long time ago also.
* The show is poorly plotted. By this I mean pacing and story angles. They just randomly drop in and drop out and revisit angles at no particular rhyme or reason for a show that is supposed to have its own "mythology" and story arc. For example I love how the French Women has been Mia all season but you can bet she will suddenly pop up conviently when she is needed.

And that's that. I don't think I will ever really like the show as much as I did in the early episodes of the first season but it's not the worst way to spend 40 minutes a week and it's sort of like crossing a river. I'm halfway across so it feels foolish to just give up on it even though the show highly annoys me at times. See you at the end of the season since I most likely won't watch any episodes until I power through them at the end.

Digital Sportspage

OT: LOST Season 3 Discussion SPOILERS