OT: NBA Season 2009-2010 & Fantasy Hoops Talk

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:59 pm

Danimal wrote:As much as I don't care about this situation, let's not pretend for a minute that MJ didn't love attention and have a diva attitude.

I've been on commercial shoots with MJ and that guy was the biggest egomaniac in the world. His simple press release "back in the day" was just that back in the day. There was no twitter, face book or instant deluge of information at every turn.

The guy did a McDonald's commercial with Reggie Miller where he refused to be on the same set with him, imagine how hard that was to shoot. I guess everyone who saw his hall of fame speech thought to themselves "what a class act"

Sorry back to your LJ lynching (which is deserved) but I can't stand when people use MJ as the pillar of class.

Fair enough. MJ had a super-sized ego, no doubt. But he could have co-opted ESPN for a one-hour show if he wanted.

Then again, ESPN didn't have NBA broadcast rights in the early 90s. The Worldwide Leader still would have jumped in bed with MJ for a show, but it wouldn't have promoted its broadcast property nearly as well as tonight's show will.

I guess that leads to the root of my unease. ESPN supposedly is a leader in sports journalism yet it's also a company that is built to promote its brand and its properties. There's a MASSIVE conflict of interest there, but sadly that paradox is accepted and encouraged in the American sports landscape.

pigpen81 · Post by **pigpen81** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:11 pm

pk500 wrote:
Danimal wrote:As much as I don't care about this situation, let's not pretend for a minute that MJ didn't love attention and have a diva attitude.

I've been on commercial shoots with MJ and that guy was the biggest egomaniac in the world. His simple press release "back in the day" was just that back in the day. There was no twitter, face book or instant deluge of information at every turn.

The guy did a McDonald's commercial with Reggie Miller where he refused to be on the same set with him, imagine how hard that was to shoot. I guess everyone who saw his hall of fame speech thought to themselves "what a class act"

Sorry back to your LJ lynching (which is deserved) but I can't stand when people use MJ as the pillar of class.
Fair enough. MJ had a super-sized ego, no doubt. But he could have co-opted ESPN for a one-hour show if he wanted.

Then again, ESPN didn't have NBA broadcast rights in the early 90s. The Worldwide Leader still would have jumped in bed with MJ for a show, but it wouldn't have promoted its broadcast property nearly as well as tonight's show will.

I guess that leads to the root of my unease. ESPN supposedly is a leader in sports journalism yet it's also a company that is built to promote its brand and its properties. There's a MASSIVE conflict of interest there, but sadly that paradox is accepted and encouraged in the American sports landscape.

At least they are pimping soccer.

With the MLB Network and NFL Channel, I don't really have to watch them anyway.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:13 pm

pk500 wrote: I guess that leads to the root of my unease. ESPN supposedly is a leader in sports journalism yet it's also a company that is built to promote its brand and its properties. There's a MASSIVE conflict of interest there, but sadly that paradox is accepted and encouraged in the American sports landscape.

I don't know about that premise. I think that except for isolated programs like Outside the Lines or that stupid E60 show, ESPN is pretty clearly an entertainment outlet. Sportscenter isn't a news show by any stretch, particularly given the fact that it ghettoizes sports for which ESPN/ABC has no rights. I certainly don't see Stuart Scott as a journalist by any definition! LOL

It's an entertainment broadcast network that is in partnership with certain sports leagues. I can't fault them for maximizing the value of their investments. It may not be classy, but I don't find it unethical.

Geez, PK! You're supposed to be the libertarian. Stop riding people for exercising their economic freedom!

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:16 pm

The biggest problem with Lebron now is that he's admitting that he can't win by himself (as the lone superstar on a team). Do you really think MJ would say that? Kobe? Hell no, they'd put their team on their backs and go to work. Lebron bailing on Cleveland to go play with one other superstar and another all-star is him admitting that he can't do it. If he was to go to Chicago or to NY or stay in Cleveland, he'd be making the statement that he wants to win and he's competitive enough to make it happen on his own. Instead, he's chickening out and taking the easy road where he won't be the guy getting all of the blame all of the time. No way in hell he should ever be talked about in the class of MJ or Kobe...no way.

If he goes to NYC or stays in Cleveland, then my opinion changes significantly. That means he's competitive enough to accept the challenge that those situations bring instead of copping out.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:28 pm

RobVarak wrote:I don't know about that premise. I think that except for isolated programs like Outside the Lines or that stupid E60 show, ESPN is pretty clearly an entertainment outlet. Sportscenter isn't a news show by any stretch, particularly given the fact that it ghettoizes sports for which ESPN/ABC has no rights. I certainly don't see Stuart Scott as a journalist by any definition! LOL.

Don't tell that to ESPN. Norby Williamson of ESPN is tirelessly to explain the separation of news and entertainment for ESPN in this entire reality show:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... ?eref=sihp

An almost impossible balancing act. I'm certainly not buying it.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:30 pm

RobVarak wrote:Geez, PK! You're supposed to be the libertarian. Stop riding people for exercising their economic freedom!

LeBron also is announcing the legalization of weed, the end of the Federal income tax and the immediate abolition of three-quarters of the Cabinet-level agencies and departments tonight?

YES!

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:06 pm

Jordan needed Pippen, who's one of the top 50 players in NBA history.

Kobe needed Shaq, then Gasol. Bynum and Artest didn't put up big numbers but they're key players.

Back in the day, Kareem needed Oscar Robertson and then Magic, who made other players better but still benefitted from talents like Worthy.

Bird credits people like Dennis Johnson and Parish for his rings. Not to mention talents like McHale.

David Robinson needed Duncan, who in turn needed Parker and Ginobli.

It's a team sport. Few players have won championships without all-star and HoF level teammates.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:15 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:The biggest problem with Lebron now is that he's admitting that he can't win by himself (as the lone superstar on a team). Do you really think MJ would say that? Kobe? Hell no, they'd put their team on their backs and go to work. Lebron bailing on Cleveland to go play with one other superstar and another all-star is him admitting that he can't do it. If he was to go to Chicago or to NY or stay in Cleveland, he'd be making the statement that he wants to win and he's competitive enough to make it happen on his own. Instead, he's chickening out and taking the easy road where he won't be the guy getting all of the blame all of the time. No way in hell he should ever be talked about in the class of MJ or Kobe...no way.

If he goes to NYC or stays in Cleveland, then my opinion changes significantly. That means he's competitive enough to accept the challenge that those situations bring instead of copping out.

But MJ and Kobe both know they didn't win those championships by themselves (whether they would publicly admit that or not). MJ needed Pippen and he knew it. Kobe needed Shaq and later Gasol. They both had much better support than Antwon Jamison, old Shaq, and spare parts.

I also don't see going to Miami as chickening out. Winning championships is extremely difficult, and most athletes will do whatever it takes to get their championships. If he feels that playing with Bosh and Wade is the best road, I don't see anything wrong with that. You didn't see Magic going to the Clippers to challenge himself. Plus, with the cap, Miami is going to face a real challenge filling those other 9 spots on the bench.

I don't even have a big problem with James testing the waters. He's at an important crossroads in his career, and I can't blame him for feeling that the Cavs may not be the best team for him to win a championship -- mostly because the Heat or Bulls with James are instantly better teams than Cleveland is with James.

It's the fact that this has been turned into manufactured spectacle that's so ridiculous. Even the media speculation wasn't that big of a deal -- it's mid-baseball season, football is a long way away, and no Sonic waitresses have come forward with tales of being nailed by Tiger. Of course this was going to dominate headlines for a while. It's the way that LeBron, Wade, and Bosh have just milked this for all it's worth that's annoying. The special tonight is just the turd sprinkles on top of the s*** sundae. Bill Simmons was right, they should have just created a show called "The LeBrachelor" and had all the NBA teams compete for LeBron's hand. At least that would have been funny.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:36 pm

Brando70 wrote:I also don't see going to Miami as chickening out. Winning championships is extremely difficult, and most athletes will do whatever it takes to get their championships. If he feels that playing with Bosh and Wade is the best road, I don't see anything wrong with that. You didn't see Magic going to the Clippers to challenge himself. Plus, with the cap, Miami is going to face a real challenge filling those other 9 spots on the bench.

I don't even have a big problem with James testing the waters. He's at an important crossroads in his career, and I can't blame him for feeling that the Cavs may not be the best team for him to win a championship -- mostly because the Heat or Bulls with James are instantly better teams than Cleveland is with James.

Of course those guys needed other players to win championships, but they didn't go and join forces with the three top free agents, just to win them. A sidekick is always needed...regardless of how good. Hell, Kobe was second fiddle to Shaq when they won their rings...so obviously a good sidekick is required. Testing the waters is one thing...cornering a market because you can't be the "man" on your team and you're afraid of the criticism is another. It's a cop out...plain and simple. Unless he goes to NY or Chicago.

Brando70 wrote:It's the fact that this has been turned into manufactured spectacle that's so ridiculous. Even the media speculation wasn't that big of a deal -- it's mid-baseball season, football is a long way away, and no Sonic waitresses have come forward with tales of being nailed by Tiger. Of course this was going to dominate headlines for a while.

That is ridiculous. Have you not been paying attention the last two years? This "mania" has been going on the entire time...it's just coming to fruition now so it seems worse. I've heard nothing but "summer of 2010" for the last two years in nearly every basketball broadcast, even when Lebron isn't playing. It's ridiculous. If he didn't make a big deal about it...it wouldn't be this big, and he definitely is creating the hype. What did he say two years ago about "just waiting for july 2010".

Damn...I need to just stay out of this thread because I realize how much more ridiculous this is than even I thought before. F*ck Lebron for taking over my airwaves in all forms. Hell, the damn MLB Network on Sirius was talking about Lebron on the way home from work yesterday. I can't escape it!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:41 pm

Good joke I've seen today on Twitter:

"Did you hear that Apple is releasing the new LeBron iPhone today? It doesn't have a ring."

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:52 pm

Doesn't matter how the team is assembled.

What, Lakers getting Gasol handed to them by an inept Memphis team is more pure than free agents colluding to play on the same team?

There are other examples of teams getting key players because other teams just gave them away.

Players being able to determine their own fate might be a good change from player personnel executives (many of whom are former players) making those decisions.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:10 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Damn...I need to just stay out of this thread because I realize how much more ridiculous this is than even I thought before. F*ck Lebron for taking over my airwaves in all forms. Hell, the damn MLB Network on Sirius was talking about Lebron on the way home from work yesterday. I can't escape it!

However sick all of this is making you out there in California, it's TEN TIMES WORSE here! It's just NUTS! I've never seen anything like this. It's all anyone's talking about around here.

Alot of the bars are having LOVE HIM/HATE HIM parties with drink specials and tee-shirt giveaways like it's Super Bowl Sunday. One bar is even offering to pick up your tab if he stays. Another bar is giving away LeBron tee shirts, and then if he announces he's leaving they're going to have a big "LeBon Fire", welcoming everyone to bring their own LeBron gear.

Either way, it's gonna be a CRAZY night!!!

BTW, world's biggest d*****bag or not, I still think he's staying.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:43 pm

Rumors that he's reserved 25 rooms at a Miami hotel for his entourage.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:54 pm

Listening to sports radio today will def make u dumber for it (more than usual)...

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:45 pm

wco81 wrote:Rumors that he's reserved 25 rooms at a Miami hotel for his entourage.

Yeah because rich folk don't like partying in Miami, regardless of the time of year.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:49 pm

lexbur wrote:However sick all of this is making you out there in California, it's TEN TIMES WORSE here! It's just NUTS! I've never seen anything like this. It's all anyone's talking about around here.

I really hope that they have a bunch of cameras setup in the bars around cleveland when this charade occurs. It'll be 10x more crazy than the Landon Donovan goal. Vitriol or euphoria...it's one or the other, and it will be epic either way.

vinny-b · Post by **vinny-b** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:18 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:I really hope that they have a bunch of cameras setup in the bars around cleveland when this charade occurs.

ideal pay-per-view event

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:30 pm

As half of Cleveland kills themselves.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:35 pm

This is bad news for the Hawks. Miami immediately vaults over them in the East.....but I guess as Miami goes up....Cleveland goes down. I dont even see them making the playoffs without Lebron.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:35 pm

Lebron is officially gutless. I hope it all blows up in there faces. Joke.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:41 pm

Diablo25 wrote:Lebron is officially gutless. I hope it all blows up in there faces. Joke.

Yup...cop out. Ride on dwades coat tails now. F*ck lebron. P*ssy.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:42 pm

I really dislike this for the NBA. I really hope they never win a title together.

I never want to hear Lebron James mentioned in the same breath as the all-time greats like Magic, Jordan, or Kobe. I'm fully aware all 3 of those guys had help but the difference is all 3 of those guys were THE man on their teams. Lebron choosing to go to Wade and Bosh is much different than Wade and Bosh coming to him. The nickname of "King" should never be uttered again. He made the only decision I cannot respect.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:47 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:I really dislike this for the NBA. I really hope they never win a title together.

I never want to hear Lebron James mentioned in the same breath as the all-time greats like Magic, Jordan, or Kobe. I'm fully aware all 3 of those guys had help but the difference is all 3 of those guys were THE man on their teams. Lebron choosing to go to Wade and Bosh is much different than Wade and Bosh coming to him. The nickname of "King" should never be uttered again. He made the only decision I cannot respect.

I dislike Lebron as much as the next guy, but not for these reasons. Why would you dislike someone for putting himself in the best position to win a title? If you were interviewing for a new job, wouldn't you put yourself in the best position for success also? Should Lebron purposely surround himself with bad players just to prove he's "the man"? I dislke him for many reasons, but choosing the best situation for himself isn't one of them.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:53 pm

Holy sh*t! Did you guys just hear that LeBron James signed with the Miami Heat?