Madden 11 Impressions

[Rodster]

Looks like I can give up my hope of Madden making any meaningful changes anytime soon. From this press release today, it certainly sounds like all is glorious in EA & Tiburon land:

[XXXIV]

They have zero incentive. No real competition. They are so damned proud of this thing that I just give up. Mediocrity wins. f*** it. Afterall it is the EA way.

As for the future and Madden 12... We just have to get lucky, we could try to use voodoo or maybe even some of you heathens could try prayer. Like chicken soup. It cant hoit.

[GTHobbes]

In light of the EA press release, I've gone back and looked to see what the vgchartz sales figures show. Interestingly, according to vgchartz, the sales numbers on every platform other than the PS3 are down in comparison to last year. I wonder what numbers Peter Moore is looking at?

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/browse.php?name=madden

[Rodster]

In light of the EA press release, I've gone back and looked to see what the vgchartz sales figures show. Interestingly, according to vgchartz, the sales numbers on every platform other than the PS3 are down in comparison to last year. I wonder what numbers Peter Moore is looking at?

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/browse.php?name=madden

I take it you've never heard of the saying: "It goes to show how figures lie and liars figure".

[Danimal]

In light of the EA press release, I've gone back and looked to see what the vgchartz sales figures show. Interestingly, according to vgchartz, the sales numbers on every platform other than the PS3 are down in comparison to last year. I wonder what numbers Peter Moore is looking at?

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/browse.php?name=madden

I think you missed this part:

Madden NFL 11 is delivering a strong performance in August in both retail sales and direct-to-consumer digital revenue

Actually retail sales are really close to last year, there is no way to measure digital revenue. What's alarming if sales are up 5% and actual copies sold are down then their micro transaction strategy is paying off.

[Dave]

In light of the EA press release, I've gone back and looked to see what the vgchartz sales figures show. Interestingly, according to vgchartz, the sales numbers on every platform other than the PS3 are down in comparison to last year. I wonder what numbers Peter Moore is looking at?

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/browse.php?name=madden

Hmmm, who would have more accurate numbers, vgchartz or EA...

[GTHobbes]

In light of the EA press release, I've gone back and looked to see what the vgchartz sales figures show. Interestingly, according to vgchartz, the sales numbers on every platform other than the PS3 are down in comparison to last year. I wonder what numbers Peter Moore is looking at?

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/browse.php?name=madden

Hmmm, who would have more accurate numbers, vgchartz or EA...

I can only guess, but people talked about vgchartz like it was the Bible when it came to Backbreaker's sales so I assumed it was pretty legit.

[Danimal]

I can only guess, but people talked about vgchartz like it was the Bible when it came to Backbreaker's sales so I assumed it was pretty legit.

vgchartz are not 100% accurate but they are not that off, again are vyou're missing the words digital revenue? they bunched that in to determine their sales YoY.

As far as BB goes the PS2 version of madden 11 had almost the same sales as 360 / PS3 of BB, make your own determination from their on whether BB was a sales failure.

[GTHobbes]

Dan, I saw this exchange on Twitter which makes me think EA is saying sales across all platforms are up 5% from last year. Again, based on what vgchartz is showing for 1st and 2nd week sales of M10 and M11, something just doesn't add up with what EA is saying.

@ian_cummings Congrats on the sales. Is that based off all sales, including online / digital, or just units sold?
@Valdarez only units. Digital/online is the 200% number.
@ian_cummings Nice. Were there more offers this year with Madden? Seemed it was on sale for $40 or $50 from day one this year.
@Valdarez long story there...don't think I can freely talk about it
@ian_cummings Figure it has something to do with CEO comments, & a trade off in marketing budget for offers, with a focus on early sales.

[Danimal]

Oh I don't know about that twitter stuff, I was just commenting on your original post which specifically (and slyly) said digital revenue. As much as I don't get it Madden Ultimate Team is a hit and I bet they are selling a lot of that stuff I would guess.

However if they are just saying units sold then you're right it doesn't add up based off the vg numbers, I mean those aren't 100% accurate but it's not like they are off by 10's of thousands.

[GTHobbes]

Oh I don't know about that twitter stuff, I was just commenting on your original post which specifically (and slyly) said digital revenue. As much as I don't get it Madden Ultimate Team is a hit and I bet they are selling a lot of that stuff I would guess.

However if they are just saying units sold then you're right it doesn't add up based off the vg numbers, I mean those aren't 100% accurate but it's not like they are off by 10's of thousands.

Agreed on all counts. One thing to keep in mind about the MUT numbers, though, is that, if my memory serves, MUT wasn't part of Madden out of the box when it released in August 2009. Instead, it was added later via DLC. Thus, any $ earned by MUT in August this year is being compared to $0 from last year. Again, pretty slick wordsmithing by Peter Moore and the EA Marketing Machine.

[Wilk5280]

Looks like I can give up my hope of Madden making any meaningful changes anytime soon. From this press release today, it certainly sounds like all is glorious in EA & Tiburon land:

"REDWOOD CITY, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Electronic Arts Inc. (NASDAQ:ERTS - News) announced today that Madden NFL 11 is delivering a strong performance in August in both retail sales and direct-to-consumer digital revenue. Based on internal estimates, Madden NFL 11 is the #1 selling game in North America in August – sales are projected to be up approximately 5% year-over-year across all platforms for the month.

Today, Madden NFL Superstars, an all-new NFL social game experience, launches on Facebook.

“Madden NFL 11 is the number one selling game in August, and the game has created enormous enthusiasm in the online community,” said Peter Moore, president of EA SPORTS. “Each day on consoles, fans are playing as many games online as the equivalent of 750 full NFL seasons. Now on Facebook, Madden NFL Superstars will bring a whole new dimension and audience to the Madden NFL experience.”

This month, Madden NFL 11 has reached a number of important milestones:

* On the strength of the Madden NFL Ultimate Team game mode being released this year at launch, digital revenues for Madden NFL 11 are up more than 200 percent year-over-year.
* Madden NFL 11 gamers have averaged more than two million online connected game sessions each day. Nearly 20 percent of all online play has been logged on a brand new feature, Online Team Play. The mode allows fans to go online and play 3-on-3 with, or against, their friends.
* The innovative new GameFlow play calling system in Madden NFL 11 has been a hit, with 85 percent of players having used the new feature that streamlines play calling and shortens overall game length for a more accessible experience. Says ESPN.com: “GameFlow is a complete game-changer.”
* Madden NFL 11 debuted as the #1 top grossing application for Apple’s mobile platforms on the day it launched – the first time one game franchise has held the top grossing position in multiple platforms in the App Store."

Well, at least it will continue to give me some great reading material. One day you will realize that you are not their target audience..... one day.

[GTHobbes]

Well, at least it will continue to give me some great reading material. One day you will realize that you are not their target audience..... one day.

Or, even better, maybe one day someone at EA will realize that people like me and Dan really are their target audience (die-hard NFL fans with $ to spend) and that they're losing us quickly (if we're not already gone) as customers.

I'd say they're better off making changes and targeting us rather than targeting casuals like my twin brother, who will occasionally turn on a football game on TV but who would never think about dropping $63.59 on a football videogame. No matter how much dumbing down EA does, he's never going to buy it.

[greggsand]

Every time I see the "Madden's sales # are off" stories over the last couple years, I assume it's more economy-related than product related. I mean, is any game franchise's sales #'s really up over the last 4 years??

re target audience:If Madden focused on 'die hard nfl fans', it would be a mistake. A product that expensive to make needs to appeal to the widest audience possible.

[wco81]

Didn't Modern Warfare set records last year for sales?

Some games are doing pretty well, even though the overall industry numbers might be down.

[Rodster]

re target audience:If Madden focused on 'die hard nfl fans', it would be a mistake. A product that expensive to make needs to appeal to the widest audience possible.

There was a big audience for Front Page Sports Football. In fact that is all I played until they quit making it. I tried Madden back in the late 90's and couldn't get into it.

I'll say this, if there was an NFL equivalent to Football Manager here in the US I wouldn't go anywhere near Madden.

[ScoopBrady]

Well, at least it will continue to give me some great reading material. One day you will realize that you are not their target audience..... one day.

Or, even better, maybe one day someone at EA will realize that people like me and Dan really are their target audience (die-hard NFL fans with $ to spend) and that they're losing us quickly (if we're not already gone) as customers.

I'd say they're better off making changes and targeting us rather than targeting casuals like my twin brother, who will occasionally turn on a football game on TV but who would never think about dropping $63.59 on a football videogame. No matter how much dumbing down EA does, he's never going to buy it.

I totally disagree GT. If ever there was a game that was released for the die-hard football fan, Backbreaker is it. It sold terribly. All Pro Football 2k8 was released for the die-hard football fan, it sold terribly. You want Madden to be a perfect simulation while 95% of people who buy Madden want it to be a good, fun video game of football. In what world does it make sense to appeal to the smallest portion of your customer base? I honestly think you have trouble realizing that a vast majority of people playing Madden do not share your thoughts or the thoughts of people on forums such as this or Operation Sports. Operation Sports has 187,715 users and Madden sells roughly 5+ million copies per year. That is 3.75% of the people who buy Madden if every registered user at OS bought Madden AND every user hated Madden. That percentage is so small that games that are released to cater to it fail miserably at retail. You either learn to adapt or completely give up. Years ago I decided to adapt and have had the most fun gaming I have had since I was a kid.

[GTHobbes]

I see what you're saying, Scoop...but if there have been millions of people added to the install base for the PS3 and 360 over the last few years, and Madden's sales are still staying flat or declining, that tells me that the casuals just aren't buying Madden and probably never will.

[JRod]

Well, at least it will continue to give me some great reading material. One day you will realize that you are not their target audience..... one day.

Or, even better, maybe one day someone at EA will realize that people like me and Dan really are their target audience (die-hard NFL fans with $ to spend) and that they're losing us quickly (if we're not already gone) as customers.

I'd say they're better off making changes and targeting us rather than targeting casuals like my twin brother, who will occasionally turn on a football game on TV but who would never think about dropping $63.59 on a football videogame. No matter how much dumbing down EA does, he's never going to buy it.

I totally disagree GT. If ever there was a game that was released for the die-hard football fan, Backbreaker is it. It sold terribly. All Pro Football 2k8 was released for the die-hard football fan, it sold terribly. You want Madden to be a perfect simulation while 95% of people who buy Madden want it to be a good, fun video game of football. In what world does it make sense to appeal to the smallest portion of your customer base? I honestly think you have trouble realizing that a vast majority of people playing Madden do not share your thoughts or the thoughts of people on forums such as this or Operation Sports. Operation Sports has 187,715 users and Madden sells roughly 5+ million copies per year. That is 3.75% of the people who buy Madden if every registered user at OS bought Madden AND every user hated Madden. That percentage is so small that games that are released to cater to it fail miserably at retail. You either learn to adapt or completely give up. Years ago I decided to adapt and have had the most fun gaming I have had since I was a kid.

Couple the economy with Madden fatigue and you get this. The other thing is good games sell, bad ones don't. If bad games sold, we would still see Triple Play and NBA Live.

Madden is Madden, not good enough to be great and not bad enough not to sell. It's probably is that it is trying to be everything to everybody and the result is that its a football game that has no direction.

And BB and APF are not geared towards hardcode football fans. You confuse hardcore football fans with hardcore football video game fans, there's a difference.

There's a market for BB and the former APF, but the entry into that market will take a lot of effort, something that APF wasn't willing to do. Will BB listen to their customers and continue to grow this effort. When a company like EA, with Madden, corners a market it does so to make the entry costs so great that competitors can't afford to compete.

[Danimal]

I see what you're saying, Scoop...but if there have been millions of people added to the install base for the PS3 and 360 over the last few years, and Madden's sales are still staying flat or declining, that tells me that the casuals just aren't buying Madden and probably never will.

Yeah but as I said somewhere I don't think that has anything to do with Madden. Shooters are where the money is at, and to compare a game like MW2 to a sports game that comes out yearly (as wco did) is not comparing apples to apples. I have neither the time nor inclination to verify this but I would think it you looked at all sports franchises games for the last 3 years the sales growth differences would be marginal.

Let me be perfectly clear, I enjoyed madden 10 a lot. I think once a patch hits M11 will have enjoyable game play (i don't care what anyone says the DB's are playing better after the last roster update) what I don't like is the direction of features and frankly the lack of effort. NCAA did double what Madden did in a year. This is my beef with M11, they didn't deliver much to get excited about.

[TCrouch]

Danimal,

I went back and played a game on default All-Pro difficulty on the new roster just to check things out, and I see what you're saying. The DB's for me played pretty realistically, and overall it wasn't a horrible game. Running was less all-or-nothing for me, but I still had Philip Rivers throwing ridiculously late passes for two quick picks, which took a close game and turned it into a blowout. I even ran out of bounds or just dove as soon as they had a pick, and I started having to make sure I was using the swat instead of pick, which goes against everything in my nature.

I can get the game playing very well for me after tinkering with sliders so much, but I still have games (or sections of games) where QB's complete 10 or 15 passes in a row, then they'll miss a few and throw interceptions, etc.

The game is just so frustrating because it's so close to being all that 10 was and more for me. But the stuff that's borked is so massively borked that it's infuriating. I think the latest roster DOES play slightly better than before, though. Either that or I'm just more accustomed to things now and subconsciously do things in the game, I have no idea.

[Aristo]

If ever there was a game that was released for the die-hard football fan, Backbreaker is it. It sold terribly. All Pro Football 2k8 was released for the die-hard football fan, it sold terribly. You want Madden to be a perfect simulation while 95% of people who buy Madden want it to be a good, fun video game of football. In what world does it make sense to appeal to the smallest portion of your customer base? I honestly think you have trouble realizing that a vast majority of people playing Madden do not share your thoughts or the thoughts of people on forums such as this or Operation Sports. Operation Sports has 187,715 users and Madden sells roughly 5+ million copies per year. That is 3.75% of the people who buy Madden if every registered user at OS bought Madden AND every user hated Madden. That percentage is so small that games that are released to cater to it fail miserably at retail. You either learn to adapt or completely give up. Years ago I decided to adapt and have had the most fun gaming I have had since I was a kid.

I pretty much agree, even though both BB and APFB were still video game football aimed at the console crowd. I never touched Madden or any other console football game while Sierra was pumping out FBPro titles. When that finally died off, I bit the bullet and bought a Dreamcast. NFL 2K ( or whichever year I jumped in on) was a blast to play because I gave up all pretense of it being like FBPro at all. Once I got a Gamecube and then Xbox, I gave Madden another try. It was terrible, terrible, terrible, just as I think 98 or 99 was on the PC.

But at no time did I feel like 2K was putting out a sim, just a better game. It wasn't until Madden 10 that I found the game to be playable. I'm still not sure if this year's version is a step forward or back. It's kind of both. But MUT is clearly aimed at another kind of gamer. I had hoped it would change, until it became clear that it was profitable as all get out. What I wanted would cost Madden revenue, so why expect them to change?

If you want to see just hoe pathetic the Madden team is, though, you should check out the Ultimate Team version that the NHL guys are putting out. It may still suffer form the main drawback, which is that it is designed to get you to spend money to upgrade your team, but holy hell is it a 100x more interesting than what Madden has put out in its second year of MUT. From what I saw on EA's USTREAM presentation yesterday was pretty mind blowing. The Madden team should be embarrassed for the half-assed version they put out this year. As much as I want to hate on the mode, there is some real deep strategy to partake in, and far more interesting online set-up.

I think it just illustrates what is wrong with Madden. They are not creative, and have no real idea how to flesh out different modes of play.

God love you BB fans, but that game is not an answer. There is nothing compelling about it to me at all. Next week, Madden is going back to Gamestop when I buy NHL 11. The only question is if I will return NCAA 11 as well. And I am a football first, baseball second, fan. But NHL is the best franchise going. I'd argue it stands above The Show, as well. But that just may be personal preference.

[tmdba37]

The way I see it, EA, as exclusive rights holder to the NFL License, owes it to the NFL consumer to put out a product that does the league and the brand proud. Madden 10 did that because that game worked well right out of the box, and at the end of the day felt like football. It also gave us some really solid features and upgrades.

Madden 11 misses the target because it didn't ride the wave from M10 and for whatever reason the game kind of took a step sideways instead of forward. They added Gameflow, but didn't bother tweaking the game plan for each team. They added Online Team Play, which is fun, but inexplicably did nothing with Franchise and more importantly Online Franchise. They tweaked the running game but inexplicably opened the passing game up to feel more like an arcade or give it an arena league feel (and I haven't tried it with the new roster yet, so I hope Dan's feel that it's been tightened a bit is right). . .

So at the end of the day, they can spin and spout off about the numbers and tout their features and keep spewing the crap that M11 gives you the same game in half the time, the fact remains that the bar is set high for this game and I just don't think they came anywhere close to reaching it this year. Which is why I maintain they shouldn't develop both NCAA and Madden in a vacuum anymore (or really wouldn't it make perfect sense to spread best-practices across all of their games?) and make certain that one game doesn't outshine the other. I think clearly that wasn't the case this summer and I (although quite honestly naively) expect better from them.

[Rodster]

The way I see it, EA, as exclusive rights holder to the NFL License, owes it to the NFL consumer to put out a product that does the league and the brand proud. Madden 10 did that because that game worked well right out of the box, and at the end of the day felt like football. It also gave us some really solid features and upgrades.

I don't understand that because as was stated earlier Madden is neither a great game or a terrible one. I think Madden for the most part is pretty decent and Madden 11 is basically M10.5

EA is not required nor owes anything to the NFL consumer other than to put out a product that doesn't misrepresent the NFL or cast a bad light on the League, i.e. Blitz The League. EA is putting out a fun product to a mass audience and as has been discussed, they are not interested in catering to a niche group. They are going for mass appeal and for the most part the casual crowd probably doesn't know or care about suction blocking or any of the other on going issues with this series.

I like M11 but I think overall M10 was a little more polished. Let's wait and see if the patches help fix some of the problems the hardcore crowd wants addressed.

[Wilk5280]

Didn't Modern Warfare set records last year for sales?

Some games are doing pretty well, even though the overall industry numbers might be down.

MW2 isn't an annual release. Sure CoD is, but gamers know the difference between IW and Treyarch, and they certainly know the difference between another WWII shooter and one in a Modern day setting.

Annual sports releases are certainly going to be down due to the nature of the beast and the economy.

EA Sports could produce a football game that would give GTHobbes the wetest of dreams and it wouldn't matter. Football is football. You cannot change that one principal fact, so while they can do things like better blocking, player interaction, etc it's still football. People just aren't going to buy it year in and year out. Sure, you and I most likely are... but the huge gaming community is not. DSP, OS and whatever other sports gaming community you want to throw in are not the big money makers for Madden, NBA Live, etc. Sorry, it's just the simple facts.

For all the people who feel that NFL 2K5 is the greatest football game in the history of video sport (and I too liked the game), it didn't sell for s*** when compared to Madden.... AND THAT GAME RELEASED AT THE ECONOMY FRIENDLY PRICEPOINT OF 39.99 or however cheap it was, in a time when the economy was a non-issue.

GT sorry buddy, but you're not their target audience. Not then, not now .. not ever.