MLB Season discussion

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:21 pm

Sudz wrote:
JackDog wrote:I don't care if he did take it. I mean really who gives a s***. I could take a bath in HGH and not be able to touch a 90mph fastball. The kid is a great story. And he has talent. Period.

I'll bet my left nut that at the very least 60% of MLB players on all levels have used the stuff before it was banned. And I'll bet my right one that there is still 30 to 40% still using the stuff today. If anyone is to blame it's Bud.

MLB does not test for HGH, because there is no reliable test for HGH. Cheaters can continue to cheat, undeterred. But clean players who want to clear their names … Well, they can’t. There’s no test.
I hope the guy has a great career. HGH induced or not.
yeah...but for him to just do it on talent alone...is a great story...

Your right brother it would be. But sadly those days are long gone. Like 10spro posted, the high salaries play a huge part in this. Man I'am not going to lie. If the stuff made me heal faster and help my body recover to play everyday I would do it. Owners pay huge rewards to players that have what used to be considered mediocre years. They are part of the blame as well.

So are we the fans. Baseball is having another record year for attendance. That includes the minors. When I was a kid AAA Stadiums sucked. AA parks were horrific. Now look at them. This is a A team for the Reds. http://www.daytondragons.com/fifththird/about/
http://www.daytondragons.com/fifththird/seating/
Click on a section to see the park.

That picture doesn't do it justice. It's a double decked grandstand with all the trimmings. It's a great park. Sold out every home game. Waiting list for season tickets. But it's A ball. And it's only 40 miles from the parent club in Cincy.

My point is Baseball is making a ton of dough with talent that is spread thinner then my hair. The powers that be know what it takes to put asses in the stands. HR's. Players understood and did whatever they needed to do to put up big numbers. The owners turned a blind eye to it for years. Now that Pandora's box is open they crucify anyone caught. I think it's horseshit. I don't care anymore. Players use it in all sports.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:56 pm

this is really weird because when Ankiel came out this year hitting hr's and having a great month, first thought that popped in my head was HGH. That the guy must have been on something. A pitcher turned hitter just turning it on like that.

I didn't really believe what I thought but now it's weird how that maybe true.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:02 pm

JackDog wrote: I'll bet my left nut that at the very least 60% of MLB players on all levels have used the stuff before it was banned. And I'll bet my right one that there is still 30 to 40% still using the stuff today.

I'd bet both nuts that the numbers are even higher than that.

Hell, I've even taken HGH before. I remember back in '99, before this stuff was even considered as "performancing enhancing" for sports, I found out about it through a neighbor of mine doing one of those multi-level marketing things (he did them all: vitamins, phone cards, shampoo, even Amway I think). Anyway, I got a single bottle of the stuff (it was a dropper bottle, not the injectable version that gets prescribed by a doctor). You'd put a few drops under your tongue each day and it was supposed to be "the fountain of youth" as HGH is naturally occuring in your body, but goes down as you age... the theory being that if you keep the level stable, or even increase it (ie. like when you're a kid and growing) then you live longer, stay healthier, etc....

I took it for a month, and like most vitamins, didn't keep up with it. But I can say that I did feel more energized, less tired, recovered more quickly and had very vivid dreams while I took the drops (which they said was a side-effect).

Bottom line, Ankiel got a Rx for it from a licensed doctor, so while he was taking HGH it was certainly not illegal for him to do so. In 2004, when he apparently took it, it was not a banned substance by MLB. Plus, how can it be performance enhancing when he's not even "performing" as he was in rehab all year. Perhaps back in '04, it was common for doctors to give a rehab patient a Rx of the stuff to speed healing, who knows.

As for how many players are taking HGH even now that MLB has banned it? I'd say an overwhelming majority. There's no urine test for it, so until they start testing their blood samples these guys will continue using the stuff.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:02 pm

Now I'm hearing on talk radio that Troy Glaus also took steroids for a couple years. Here's the article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/b ... index.html

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:06 pm

Last night the analyst on ESPN was talking about how coaches saw the players getting big again this year after the steroids scare of the previous 2 years.

I am pretty sure that these test hidden drugs are so far beyond what MLB is testing for that I wouldn't be surprised that the players are taking some new thing we'll hear about in 3-4 years. I wouldn't even be surprised if Bonds is back on stuff.

By not testing HGH, MLB and Selig are pretty much saying it's ok and that they'll look the other way.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:08 pm

Inuyasha wrote:this is really weird because when Ankiel came out this year hitting hr's and having a great month, first thought that popped in my head was HGH. That the guy must have been on something. A pitcher turned hitter just turning it on like that.

I didn't really believe what I thought but now it's weird how that maybe true.

From the link Sportsdan posted.

So Ankiel’s reputation, outside the circle of adoring Cardinals fans, will float through that murky gray.

I’ll say this in defense of Ankiel: his power was always there.

I researched this in the past when I wrote a column in 2001, suggesting that Ankiel become an outfielder.

I’ll briefly review some of the history for you:

In his final high school at-bat, Ankiel hit a 450-foot homer.

He once bashed three in one high school game.

A few weeks after graduating from Port St. Lucie High School in 1997, Ankiel played for the USA Baseball Junior National Team. He pitched and went 3-0 with a 1.82 ERA.

And when he didn’t pitch, he played left field and batted .387 with two homers, four doubles and 16 RBIs.

In one game, Ankiel hit a three-run homer into the upper deck of SkyDome (now Rogers Centre).

That’s right: an upper-deck shot in the major-league ballpark home of the Toronto Blue Jays.

Ankiel was just about to turn 18 years old at the time.

Ankiel (as a pitcher) hit well in the minors. And as a rookie pitcher with the Cardinals in 1999, Ankiel hit a long drive off Atlanta’s Kevin Milwood into the upper deck at Busch Stadium II. It barely landed foul.

My point is, Ankiel always had the ability to launch homers. What we’ve seen in the last month is nothing new. This is a rare athlete.

That was abundantly true long before Ankiel heard of HGH or knew what it meant.

The Cards know what kind of player he is. If not ,they wouldn't have given him the chance to play in the outfield. They would have cut him years ago.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:12 pm

Inuyasha wrote: By not testing HGH, MLB and Selig are pretty much saying it's ok and that they'll look the other way.

Here's the problem. There IS no urine test for HGH. Even the blood test is not commercially available. Can't really test for something when you don't have a way to test for it.

Selig can't just say, "we're going to start blood testing now". The MLB player's union already shot that down and have fought against Olympic-like blood testing. Blame them more than the commish. His hands are tied by MLBPA (although I'm sure he's going to have to more agressively push for blood testing at this point since urine test only catches the complete morons still taking steroids in-season).

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:21 pm

Bub-bye Braves!

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:27 pm

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:Bub-bye Braves!

They were gone after the last sweep a few weeks ago.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:05 pm

The series to watch this weekend is in BOS. As a neutral fan, it was a thriller to watch another blow/choke for the home team against the team they are being chased. Those damn NYY are only 4 1/2 games for 1st place in the eastern division.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:15 pm

Huge guts being shown by the Phils...5-3 Phils after Rollins' league leading 18th triple in the 8th

I would be irate at Beltran after that weak attempt on Rollins' triple. He made the mistake of taking a step in but then on his recovery he barely made an effort to reach for the ball. BS. Some dumb baserunning by the Mets (Reyes) also. Please leave Sosa in.

Sully · Post by **Sully** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:49 pm

The Phils are frustrating to watch. We own the Mets, but struggle against the Pirates, Nats, and Marlins. Yeah, that makes sense.

With an average pitching staff, they're arguably the best team in the NL. Sadly, our staff can't even sniff average. It's god awful. In true Phillies fashion, we'll put in a good showing against the Mets, then proceed to lose 3 or 4 in a row after the series is over.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:34 am

Sully wrote:The Phils are frustrating to watch. We own the Mets, but struggle against the Pirates, Nats, and Marlins. Yeah, that makes sense.

With an average pitching staff, they're arguably the best team in the NL. Sadly, our staff can't even sniff average. It's god awful. In true Phillies fashion, we'll put in a good showing against the Mets, then proceed to lose 3 or 4 in a row after the series is over.

For some reason, the Mets make that awful pitching staff look good. Specially the bullpen.

Oh well, they still are comfortably in first, but another sweep vs a team that may not even make the playoffs would be embarrassing.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:40 am

Sully wrote:The Phils are frustrating to watch. We own the Mets, but struggle against the Pirates, Nats, and Marlins

The Phillies are 4-2 against the Pirates (Mets were also 4-2) and 7-4 against the Nats (Mets are 8-4). Seems pretty even to me. The Marlins are the thorn in the Phillies side though.

I'd love to see the Phillies get in, but they always seem to fall short.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:02 am

Its amazing the Phils are where they are right now considering the pitching staff's issues. The bullpen got a boost yesterday when Alfonseca was suspended 4 games

Seriously thougn, the back end of the pen seems to be coming on. JC Romero has a been a god send lately and Flash Gordon, all of a sudden, has his good stuff again. I'm sure today will be "fun" to watch...Adam Eaton is starting

I'm still hopeful this team can get in the playoffs. They won their 45th come from behind game yesterday.

Sully · Post by **Sully** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:37 am

Leebo33 wrote:
Sully wrote:The Phils are frustrating to watch. We own the Mets, but struggle against the Pirates, Nats, and Marlins
The Phillies are 4-2 against the Pirates (Mets were also 4-2) and 7-4 against the Nats (Mets are 8-4). Seems pretty even to me. The Marlins are the thorn in the Phillies side though.

I'd love to see the Phillies get in, but they always seem to fall short.

Well, I was referring more to our recent stints against said teams. We blew two 4-0 leads in Pittsburgh, after winning the opener. Though we went 4-2 against them, we won the first 4, and had big leads in the last two. We swept 4 games from the Mets in August, then proceed to lose 2 out of 3 in Florida, who was 2-13 in their previous 15 games entering the series.

The Nats, they play us tough, lots of one and two run games.

I'd love to see us get in, but I've seen this before. We'll finish just short, and look back on our horrible April, and how many leads the bullpen couldn't hold on to during the course of the season.

Rinse, and repeat.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:02 pm

Sully wrote:Well, I was referring more to our recent stints against said teams. We blew two 4-0 leads in Pittsburgh

The Mets lost a 5-0 lead the last time they played in Pittsburgh, but I know what you mean. Those losses hurt and are more memorable some times than the early season wins.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:00 pm

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:
For some reason, the Mets make that awful pitching staff look good. Specially the bullpen.

Oh well, they still are comfortably in first, but another sweep vs a team that may not even make the playoffs would be embarrassing.

Did someone mention the word embarrassing?

Ugh....

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:25 pm

Mets lost, Phillies winning big

Howard has 2 bombs...one being a Grand Slam and Rollins has a 3 run bomb. I'm biased but Rollins is the MVP in my opinion. He is having a stud year. I realize there are other guys (Wright, Fielder, Holliday, even Peavy) in the running but Rollins' year has been better than them all.

pigpen81 · Post by **pigpen81** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:11 pm

Ouch Doby....now 12-11.....uh oh!

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:37 pm

pigpen81 wrote:Ouch Doby....now 12-11.....uh oh!

A 12-1 lead turns into a 13-11 gut-wrenching win. I would punch Clay Condrey in the face if I were in St. Louis right now. He is not even a AA pitcher. Oh well, at least its a win.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:19 am

WOW, Casey Blake's second walk-off homer in four days!!!!!!!!

The crowd was going nuts after the game last night outside the Jake... horns honking, folks dancing in the streets... it's starting to look, sound and feel alot like it did back in the 90's around here.

GO TRIBE!!!!!!!!!!

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:10 am

Jays continue to help the NYY as E. Gagne blows another save and TOR comes back in the ninth to win it. BOS is just 3.5 ahead of NY. At one point of the season they were ahead as much as 15 games.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:55 am

10spro wrote:Jays continue to help the NYY as E. Gagne blows another save and TOR comes back in the ninth to win it. BOS is just 3.5 ahead of NY. At one point of the season they were ahead as much as 15 games.

Make that 2.5 back with a game in hand thanks to winning the tiebreaker.

AJ Burnett is just filthy. Unfortunately the Yanks will have to face him this weekend. As much as I am rooting for the Jays again tonight I don't want them to get too hot coming into the Bronx this weekend.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:17 pm

I'm not sure the Red Sox and Mets want to win their respective divisions.