Willingham out at ND.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:23 pm

Can someone tell my why the hell are these coaches trying to install a West Coast Offense in the college ranks. Anyone trying to install this type of offense should be fired.

I hate to see College Ball turn into Pro Style Ball. An option offense, with a QB that can throw, with a sufficating defense can win a lot of games. Neb had that, ND in their better years had that.

I just don't get it.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:29 pm

JRod wrote:Can someone tell my why the hell are these coaches trying to install a West Coast Offense in the college ranks. Anyone trying to install this type of offense should be fired.

I hate to see College Ball turn into Pro Style Ball. An option offense, with a QB that can throw, with a sufficating defense can win a lot of games. Neb had that, ND in their better years had that.

I just don't get it.

You make it sound like installing an option offense and getting a suffocating defense is a snap. Nebraska's poor defense was just as critical to their poor play as their offense was.

Plenty of teams have been succesful in college running the WCO, but any time you totally change your philosophy it takes years to get your style of play ingrained not to mention developing kids for your system.

Ty Willingham was plenty succesul running his system at Stanford, which is a difficult place to get top players in to. Notre Dame was making very good strides and he finally started getting pieces in to place. Now ND must start over again.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:05 pm

I've heard that the players might boycott the bowl game due to this firing.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:15 pm

fsquid wrote:I've heard that the players might boycott the bowl game due to this firing.

That would mean nothing to Notre Dame. Remember this is the same school that boycotted going to any bowl game simply because they had a bad year. Forget which year it was but pretty sure it was a 6 or 7 win season and no big bowls wanted them. They would never stoop to playing in the Poulan Weedeater Bowl.

Post by **Jared** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:18 pm

This will be really interesting with Florida. Spurrier wanted to go to Florida, but the Florida AD told Spurrier that he'd have to go through the interview process (translation: we wouldn't mind having you, but we've got someone else in mind). The idea is that Florida has wanted Meyer the whole time and decided to go for him instead of Spurrier.

So Spurrier goes to S. Carolina, and Meyer goes to Florida. BUT Meyer would really want the ND job (he's got a release clause in his contract that lets him leave w/o penalty to go to either ND or Ohio St). ND is probably firing Ty now so that they've got a shot at Meyer.

So if Meyer goes to ND, Florida loses their top two choices (Meyer and Spurrier) and have to go after someone much worse. If they don't get Meyer, then the Florida boosters will be outraged (most are big fans of Spurrier or Meyer, and don't really care for the rest of the coaching candidates). Should be interesting.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:29 pm

Florida should go after Petrino.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:30 pm

Jared wrote:So if Meyer goes to ND, Florida loses their top two choices (Meyer and Spurrier) and have to go after someone much worse. If they don't get Meyer, then the Florida boosters will be outraged (most are big fans of Spurrier or Meyer, and don't really care for the rest of the coaching candidates). Should be interesting.

Paul Pasqualoni should be available in early January ...

Take care,
PK

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:32 pm

Jared wrote:This will be really interesting with Florida. Spurrier wanted to go to Florida, but the Florida AD told Spurrier that he'd have to go through the interview process (translation: we wouldn't mind having you, but we've got someone else in mind). The idea is that Florida has wanted Meyer the whole time and decided to go for him instead of Spurrier.

So Spurrier goes to S. Carolina, and Meyer goes to Florida. BUT Meyer would really want the ND job (he's got a release clause in his contract that lets him leave w/o penalty to go to either ND or Ohio St). ND is probably firing Ty now so that they've got a shot at Meyer.

So if Meyer goes to ND, Florida loses their top two choices (Meyer and Spurrier) and have to go after someone much worse. If they don't get Meyer, then the Florida boosters will be outraged (most are big fans of Spurrier or Meyer, and don't really care for the rest of the coaching candidates). Should be interesting.

Well there is always Galen Hall.

if he could turn around the Rehin Fire just think what he could do for UF. Plus look at the exciting offense he has up there at Penn St.

Seriously though it does not look good for UF.

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:49 pm

JRod wrote:Can someone tell my why the hell are these coaches trying to install a West Coast Offense in the college ranks. Anyone trying to install this type of offense should be fired.

I hate to see College Ball turn into Pro Style Ball. An option offense, with a QB that can throw, with a sufficating defense can win a lot of games. Neb had that, ND in their better years had that.

I just don't get it.

Because the way to get good is to recruit guys who have pro futures, and nobody, I mean nobody with a pro future is going to an option offense.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:56 pm

seanmac31 wrote:
JRod wrote:Can someone tell my why the hell are these coaches trying to install a West Coast Offense in the college ranks. Anyone trying to install this type of offense should be fired.

I hate to see College Ball turn into Pro Style Ball. An option offense, with a QB that can throw, with a sufficating defense can win a lot of games. Neb had that, ND in their better years had that.

I just don't get it.
Because the way to get good is to recruit guys who have pro futures, and nobody, I mean nobody with a pro future is going to an option offense.

That is so very very true.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:57 pm

pk500 wrote:
bkrich83 wrote:Exacrly. And you could see progress being made at ND under Willingham.
Honestly, who would want this job? Unrealistic pressure to recruit big-name players and unrealistic expectations from a rabid alumni base. No guarantee of job security even if you're 10-3 in your first year.

Any ND football coach really better have a hell of an appetite for a challenge and also have a masochism fetish.

Take care,
PK

No, Coaching at ND just brings so much extra, that they really couldn't pay me enough to take that job.,

My ideal place would be SDSU. I get to live in SD and surf, and a 6-5 season gets you a lifetime job.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:00 pm

What about Willingham to Florida? Florida already has the personnel to make his system work. He's a very very good recruiter, and players love to play for him.

Just a thought. If I were an AD, having seen myself,exactly what Willingham brings to the table both on and off the field, I would hire him in a second. Notre Dame made a big mistake in giving in to it's boosters unrealistic expectations imo.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:23 pm

All this means potentially one or more additional schools which will try to poach Tedford.

BTW, what kind of offense did Vick play in? He must have run some option at VT, right?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:31 pm

pk500 wrote:
Jared wrote:So if Meyer goes to ND, Florida loses their top two choices (Meyer and Spurrier) and have to go after someone much worse. If they don't get Meyer, then the Florida boosters will be outraged (most are big fans of Spurrier or Meyer, and don't really care for the rest of the coaching candidates). Should be interesting.
Paul Pasqualoni should be available in early January ...

Take care,
PK

I heard someone on ESPN radio say that the newly departed Butch Davis might be a possible replacement if PP is finally denied his annual midnight reprieve.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:57 pm

wco81 wrote:All this means potentially one or more additional schools which will try to poach Tedford.

BTW, what kind of offense did Vick play in? He must have run some option at VT, right?

I'm almost certain Vick played in some sort of option attack at VaTech, and McNabb started for four years in a pure option offense at Syracuse.

What about McNair? Did Alcorn State run an option when he was there?

Take care,
PK

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:04 pm

pk500 wrote:
wco81 wrote:All this means potentially one or more additional schools which will try to poach Tedford.

BTW, what kind of offense did Vick play in? He must have run some option at VT, right?
I'm almost certain Vick played in some sort of option attack at VaTech, and McNabb started for four years in a pure option offense at Syracuse.

What about McNair? Did Alcorn State run an option when he was there?

Take care,
PK

Vick ran some option, but he was made most of his plays in QB draw, sweep type plays, not to mention just dropping back and free-lancing

If you ever get a chance to see McNair at Alcorn St. I recommend it. Guy just ran around the backfield dodging people and then unleashed 50 yard strikes downfield to receiver breaking open late.

Option QB's making the jump to the pros are the exceptions not the rules. It's much easier to recruit a kid if you can show him you run a pro style offense and can prepare him for the next level. There's a reason the Pac 10 usually has such a large number of quality QB's. They are all schools running pro style offenses.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:06 pm

bkrich83 wrote:[If you ever get a chance to see McNair at Alcorn St. I recommend it. Guy just ran around the backfield dodging people and then unleashed 50 yard strikes downfield to receiver breaking open late.

Yep

He ran the Elway offense....

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:09 pm

fsquid wrote:Florida should go after Petrino.

Stop trying trying to destroy the Big East even more than it already is.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:10 pm

XXXIV wrote:
bkrich83 wrote:[If you ever get a chance to see McNair at Alcorn St. I recommend it. Guy just ran around the backfield dodging people and then unleashed 50 yard strikes downfield to receiver breaking open late.

Yep

He ran the Elway offense....

I saw him make a play where he must have run back and forth to both sidelines while eluding at least 4 defensive players, and then unloaded a 50 yard bomb off his back foot to his WR for a score. I even think the WR was his brother, if memory serves.

Neckthai · Post by **Neckthai** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:11 pm

How long until someone goes after the "Evil" Mike Leach? After Spurrier, he's most likely to "hang a hundred" on a team.

Of course the way Texas Tech plays defense, any final score will be 100-84 in a game that lasts as long as your average cricket match. So he won't be considered for any Big East job.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:20 pm

With the NFL climate looking for Vick clones an option offense with a throwing QB would be a high draft pick in my opinion.

The west coast offense is running its course through the NFL but its not doing anything special these days because everyone has had a long time to defense against it.

It seems the the QBs that do well in the NFL are the ones from either from a Pass Happy offense where the QB reguarly throws 30-40 times a game. Or the ones where the you have a QB that can throw and Pass.

The west coast offense I'm talking about is the 5-7 yard with 3 options to throw to. I don't know what offense Palmer, Harrington, Rothlisberger played in but I don't believe it was the nickle and dime offenses that the West Coast likes to install.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:32 pm

bkrich83 wrote:
XXXIV wrote:
bkrich83 wrote:[If you ever get a chance to see McNair at Alcorn St. I recommend it. Guy just ran around the backfield dodging people and then unleashed 50 yard strikes downfield to receiver breaking open late.

Yep

He ran the Elway offense....
I saw him make a play where he must have run back and forth to both sidelines while eluding at least 4 defensive players, and then unloaded a 50 yard bomb off his back foot to his WR for a score. I even think the WR was his brother, if memory serves.

I saw him play a couple of times.
It was a passing offense kinda like the ones Houston ran with klingler and Ware.....
The offense was designed around his passing(1st) and running(2nd) abilty.....I dont remember any numbers but I do remember him breaking passing records.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:34 pm

JRod wrote:With the NFL climate looking for Vick clones an option offense with a throwing QB would be a high draft pick in my opinion.

The west coast offense is running its course through the NFL but its not doing anything special these days because everyone has had a long time to defense against it.

It seems the the QBs that do well in the NFL are the ones from either from a Pass Happy offense where the QB reguarly throws 30-40 times a game. Or the ones where the you have a QB that can throw and Pass.

The west coast offense I'm talking about is the 5-7 yard with 3 options to throw to. I don't know what offense Palmer, Harrington, Rothlisberger played in but I don't believe it was the nickle and dime offenses that the West Coast likes to install.

Palmer and Harrington both played in pro style offenses that while not being the WCO, take a lot of WCO principles. One of the knocks on Palmer was he didn't throw deep often enough.

As far as the WCO running it's course. That's no where near being true. It's contining to evolve.

Philly is 10-1 they are a total WCO. Denver, Green Bay, Atlanta, Seattle, are all quite succesful with the WCO. KC is putting up huge numbers with an Al Saunders offense that is based on the WCO.

The WCO, or offenses based on it aren't going anywhere.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:34 pm

JRod wrote:Or the ones where the you have a QB that can throw and Pass.

HUH?

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:39 pm

JRod wrote:With the NFL climate looking for Vick clones an option offense with a throwing QB would be a high draft pick in my opinion.

How do you figure? 4 QB's went in the 1st round this year, 1 went in the 3rd. All were classic drop back passers with only 1 having any type of real + running abilitiy (Lohsman). Rothlesberger can scramble a bit also, but he's pretty much a classic drop back passer. Most if not all played in pro style offenses in college, with Schaub (3rd round) actually playing in the WCO for Virginia if memory serves.