I picked it up last night and thought it was very good. Reminds me a lot of Toca with better graphics. I played one online race and it was smooth and played well, looking forward to more online racing for sure.
I love the 60fps and that could be one advantage over Dirt's supposed 30fps. I'm looking forward to Dirt though but if it is true that it only runs at 30fps that will be a dissapointment. I would say that Forza2 is a nice suprise so far because I really didn't care for the original version on the Xbox. If you guys are racing online tonight please send me an invite and i'll join in.
gamertag = tjung0831
FORZA 2 impressions thread
Moderators: Bill_Abner, ScoopBrady
I really, really like the fact that you can restrict cars to a maximum p.i. rating, even within a class. This way, you can allow upgraded and tuned career cars (complete with unique decals, people!!) and be less concerned about a super-car syndrome.
I am thinking we need to try a long. 1/2 race with Class D cars that are sub-350, so we can test out the damage and especially the tire and fuel models. With the limit set to sub-350, folks can bring their upgraded career cars, but they better not be too amped up!
What's also really nice is that you can just race the stock, arcade cars in the career mode online. Awesome. If I remember correctly, in the original Forza one had to choose when creating a room whether it would be career cars or stock, arcade collection cars. Now, we can mess in all manner of car classes in our DSP get-togethers and not worry nearly as much about who has collected what up to what class. Those who have upgraded, personalized career cars can go ahead and use them, those who don't can grab a stock car from the big arcade collection.
I'm not as worried about setups as I sense others are. I don't mind too much if people want to tweak away with their car. The goal for me is to have races made up of all unique cars, the antithesis of most racing games (and the old Forza once it started to settle in) where everyone is in the same make and model. Allowing setup tuning is something I see as an incentive for someone to bring a less balanced car but make it competitive. And with the maximum p.i. restriction, not every D-class car needs to be that maxed-out 399 or whatever.
I am thinking we need to try a long. 1/2 race with Class D cars that are sub-350, so we can test out the damage and especially the tire and fuel models. With the limit set to sub-350, folks can bring their upgraded career cars, but they better not be too amped up!
What's also really nice is that you can just race the stock, arcade cars in the career mode online. Awesome. If I remember correctly, in the original Forza one had to choose when creating a room whether it would be career cars or stock, arcade collection cars. Now, we can mess in all manner of car classes in our DSP get-togethers and not worry nearly as much about who has collected what up to what class. Those who have upgraded, personalized career cars can go ahead and use them, those who don't can grab a stock car from the big arcade collection.
I'm not as worried about setups as I sense others are. I don't mind too much if people want to tweak away with their car. The goal for me is to have races made up of all unique cars, the antithesis of most racing games (and the old Forza once it started to settle in) where everyone is in the same make and model. Allowing setup tuning is something I see as an incentive for someone to bring a less balanced car but make it competitive. And with the maximum p.i. restriction, not every D-class car needs to be that maxed-out 399 or whatever.
That sounds like a pretty good system. I'm not really into maxxing out on HP or other upgrades but I do enjoy messing with gear ratios and, most importantly, brake sensitivity. I can't wait to pick this up on Saturday. I'll see you guys on the track!Zeppo wrote:
I'm not as worried about setups as I sense others are. I don't mind too much if people want to tweak away with their car. The goal for me is to have races made up of all unique cars, the antithesis of most racing games (and the old Forza once it started to settle in) where everyone is in the same make and model. Allowing setup tuning is something I see as an incentive for someone to bring a less balanced car but make it competitive. And with the maximum p.i. restriction, not every D-class car needs to be that maxed-out 399 or whatever.
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jondiehl
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Ditto.TCrouch wrote:I have to wake up a bit and formulate my thoughts into some semi-coherent order before trying to post impressions. This f*cker kept me up until the wee hours last night, but I'll definitely write a novel later.
I can't stay up until 2AM and expect to function the next morning. I used to get away with that in my 20's, not so much anymore.
The career online racing was great, especially with the $$$ earned. I hadn't really started my career yet (I did all but the Ring on Arcade mode before we got online last night, and then did one event in career), and the credits earned by racing online allowed me to grab a nice C class car that I upgraded to a high-end B car which will make those first hours of career mode alot less tedious when lapping the field of D and C class cars. It also lets you level up too, which was a nice suprise when I checked back into career mode at 2AM... alot more events were available at level 14 than they were at level 1 when I was starting career mode in single player. I'm guessing this was available in the original, I just never bothered with it (thanks to the engine swap glitch in Forza 1, I didn't waste time working through a career to get the cars I needed for my online leagues).
Anyway, I really liked the circuit race that we did at the end last night. It's cool that you have to select one car for the entire 7 races, and there's no lobby to fart around in after each race.... keeps the pace moving. Using arcade cars was fine by me last night, no setups either. More like an IROC race that way, and you can even handicap it a bit with the new P.I. rating by having some drivers take a lower rated car. The P.I. number lets you drill down and be more specific with car restrictions, since car classes are almost too wide open.
I look forward to a 1-2 pit stop race at the Ring with you guys, hopefully with R class cars next time though.
Everything was really smooth online last night, other than NYisles having a issue at the start that seemed to be fixed with a router reboot, and then the circuit race we tried to start (with Zeppo hosting) that we couldn't get launched (probably just a 1st night Live thing, which we fixed by backing up to the dashboard).
Some of the pileups we had in the tight corners made me think we should have been running in ghost/no-collision mode for the first night, but then again that made it all the more fun too, "working through the field" as we put it.
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You can count on me jumping out if more than 8 want in and I am already in the room. I'll leave the serious racing to the serious racers. I will probably be doing mostly single player stuff unless there is room online on a slower night.JackB1 wrote:going to pick up my copy at lunch today.....hope to see you guys online tonite! I am assuming when there is more than 8 DSPers, we will just break into (2) rooms?
XBL Gamertag: Spooky Disco
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ScoopBrady
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You really have it out for me today don't you Mr. Zepp!?!?Zeppo wrote:Oh my goodness, now Spooky has become a Jewish grandmother!
'No, no, don't worry about me. I don't want any fun anyway, just have fun yourselves. I'll just sit in the corner. Don't worry about me!'
The problem is that I usually don't have fun in larger rooms with good DSP racers so it would be better serving to both me and the more serious racer that may want to get into the room to bail if there is overflow.
Now...if this MS Wheel becomes second nature to me...look out!!! (yeah right!)
XBL Gamertag: Spooky Disco
OK, I've had time to collect my thoughts a bit and catch up with the workday after being useless at 7am this morning, so here goes in random order:
GAME IS BAD ASSSSSSS ONLINE. I was afraid that it wouldn't be much fun, for some reason. That the sense of speed wouldn't be there. That the super cars would rule the day. After many hours last night sandwiched around the Stanley Cup Finals game, none of that was a concern any longer. I think that they really managed to pull of the handicapping system the way that they hoped...cars with crazy acceleration and speed will get eaten up in the corners, and cars that can take the corners on rails will get gobbled in the straights. I haven't found one 'can do everything' car in any class yet other than the R1's, which only have 2 cars available out of the gates and both are identical other than looks.
If anything, the top speed value is a huge factor this time, which is the case any time you're racing cars. In one particular race Jon had a car that was .5 better top speed than the one I was racing, and he would just yard me every straightaway. But getting it stopped and through a corner was another issue, as I kept closing the gap and pulling up to his bumper every time the road curved. In the end, the top speed won on that particular track, but if we have that same race on another windy track with the same cars I would guarantee the slower, more nimble car would win it. I really do think that you could take a single car and tune it with different gear ratios and settings from track to track and make it a universal ride, but it would take some work. It wouldn't be a "plug and play" dominator like the CRX was last year, for instance.
The Performance Indicator value is superb. If Jon and I raced with equal cars the racing was sublime. If we varied it a bit, you could really tell...a car with 20 points more in the PI would be just a bit stronger on the track than its opponents. Cars that were equal PI, but radically different ratings (such as the top speed vs handling competition earlier) finished about a second apart despite driving so differently. After some tuning, perhaps that slower car could lose some of its nimbleness and pick up some top speed and draw dead even. I think they pulled it off, and made it so no supercar can dominate. It will take more than 1 day, for sure, but early results are positive. It's also changed my stance on "forcing stock upgrades and tuning". Since you have a much better feel on car performance other than the generic "D, C, B, A" ratings, it's almost a necessity to allow upgrades and tuning options to facilitate a wider range of cars instead of the stock arcade rides available. I think Zeppo hit on it earlier, and I fully agree after one solid night of racing.
The online performance is brilliant. You can force any driving assists on or off for the entire field, set up single circuit or series races with a big payoff at the end, adjust the distance and time countdown when the race finishes, and car classes available. I was able to go in and set the vehicles to "No Race Cars", or "Only D", for example, and then further go into the PI index and say <300, so the entire stable of "cream of the crop" D class cars were eliminated. Later on we were self-handicapping ourselves and taking cars in the 330 range and allowing some of the drivers who were struggling to take the field in 399 cars, and that seemed to work out well. The guys who were in the back usually finished in the same spot, but they were able to hang tough longer and really put up a fight, rather than just watching us check out at turn one and never seeing us again. It really served its purpose. The ability to set the starting grid to random, lobby points, reverse true skill ranking, true skill ranking, or any other number of options really lets you start a race in almost any way that you see fit, with slow guys in front, slow guys in back, or anywhere in between.
The only thing I think I'm in direct disagreement with (compared to almost everybody else I heard last night) is the "virtual line" thing that we have enabled. I'm all for ABS...if you want to use it, most cars have it anyway and the braking model is funky. But this virtual line is nothing but a crutch to me, and it takes away the majority of what makes a race car driver good...the ability to memorize a track, hit his marks, and perform. What's worse, if a guy isn't using the braking line or ABS and racing a guy of equal skill who is, it's almost a guarantee that the "memorization" guy will cook it a few times while anybody using the line will drive a track on his first time like a veteran. I've never been a fan of assists, and really plan to elminate that braking line next time unless there's a serious uproar against it. It's just not in the realism area. I can deal with ABS, TCS, and STM a lot easier than I can deal with some magical floating green line on the track essentially serving as an autopilot. Rant off.
At the end of the night, though, I was dreaming of that damned game. I started to really get a feel on the brake and acceleration travel and how far to push the pedals to really keep it at the edge of traction, and some of the battles online were epic. I think once we start building our career stables and tuning them to suit us, we'll see some really varied fields of cars being competitive.
So I've gone a complete 180 degrees...not excited about the game before release to really wondering where I'll get the time to play it as much as I'll want to, and wondering whether it will have legs with the DSP crowd. I really haven't had that kind of fun racing on a console since the initial PGR2 days where everybody was just going apesh*t at the ability to race online lag free. It had that kind of magical 'sweet spot' for me last night, and it got stronger and stronger as the night progressed.
I'm so completely and totally "all in" on this one...
GAME IS BAD ASSSSSSS ONLINE. I was afraid that it wouldn't be much fun, for some reason. That the sense of speed wouldn't be there. That the super cars would rule the day. After many hours last night sandwiched around the Stanley Cup Finals game, none of that was a concern any longer. I think that they really managed to pull of the handicapping system the way that they hoped...cars with crazy acceleration and speed will get eaten up in the corners, and cars that can take the corners on rails will get gobbled in the straights. I haven't found one 'can do everything' car in any class yet other than the R1's, which only have 2 cars available out of the gates and both are identical other than looks.
If anything, the top speed value is a huge factor this time, which is the case any time you're racing cars. In one particular race Jon had a car that was .5 better top speed than the one I was racing, and he would just yard me every straightaway. But getting it stopped and through a corner was another issue, as I kept closing the gap and pulling up to his bumper every time the road curved. In the end, the top speed won on that particular track, but if we have that same race on another windy track with the same cars I would guarantee the slower, more nimble car would win it. I really do think that you could take a single car and tune it with different gear ratios and settings from track to track and make it a universal ride, but it would take some work. It wouldn't be a "plug and play" dominator like the CRX was last year, for instance.
The Performance Indicator value is superb. If Jon and I raced with equal cars the racing was sublime. If we varied it a bit, you could really tell...a car with 20 points more in the PI would be just a bit stronger on the track than its opponents. Cars that were equal PI, but radically different ratings (such as the top speed vs handling competition earlier) finished about a second apart despite driving so differently. After some tuning, perhaps that slower car could lose some of its nimbleness and pick up some top speed and draw dead even. I think they pulled it off, and made it so no supercar can dominate. It will take more than 1 day, for sure, but early results are positive. It's also changed my stance on "forcing stock upgrades and tuning". Since you have a much better feel on car performance other than the generic "D, C, B, A" ratings, it's almost a necessity to allow upgrades and tuning options to facilitate a wider range of cars instead of the stock arcade rides available. I think Zeppo hit on it earlier, and I fully agree after one solid night of racing.
The online performance is brilliant. You can force any driving assists on or off for the entire field, set up single circuit or series races with a big payoff at the end, adjust the distance and time countdown when the race finishes, and car classes available. I was able to go in and set the vehicles to "No Race Cars", or "Only D", for example, and then further go into the PI index and say <300, so the entire stable of "cream of the crop" D class cars were eliminated. Later on we were self-handicapping ourselves and taking cars in the 330 range and allowing some of the drivers who were struggling to take the field in 399 cars, and that seemed to work out well. The guys who were in the back usually finished in the same spot, but they were able to hang tough longer and really put up a fight, rather than just watching us check out at turn one and never seeing us again. It really served its purpose. The ability to set the starting grid to random, lobby points, reverse true skill ranking, true skill ranking, or any other number of options really lets you start a race in almost any way that you see fit, with slow guys in front, slow guys in back, or anywhere in between.
The only thing I think I'm in direct disagreement with (compared to almost everybody else I heard last night) is the "virtual line" thing that we have enabled. I'm all for ABS...if you want to use it, most cars have it anyway and the braking model is funky. But this virtual line is nothing but a crutch to me, and it takes away the majority of what makes a race car driver good...the ability to memorize a track, hit his marks, and perform. What's worse, if a guy isn't using the braking line or ABS and racing a guy of equal skill who is, it's almost a guarantee that the "memorization" guy will cook it a few times while anybody using the line will drive a track on his first time like a veteran. I've never been a fan of assists, and really plan to elminate that braking line next time unless there's a serious uproar against it. It's just not in the realism area. I can deal with ABS, TCS, and STM a lot easier than I can deal with some magical floating green line on the track essentially serving as an autopilot. Rant off.
At the end of the night, though, I was dreaming of that damned game. I started to really get a feel on the brake and acceleration travel and how far to push the pedals to really keep it at the edge of traction, and some of the battles online were epic. I think once we start building our career stables and tuning them to suit us, we'll see some really varied fields of cars being competitive.
So I've gone a complete 180 degrees...not excited about the game before release to really wondering where I'll get the time to play it as much as I'll want to, and wondering whether it will have legs with the DSP crowd. I really haven't had that kind of fun racing on a console since the initial PGR2 days where everybody was just going apesh*t at the ability to race online lag free. It had that kind of magical 'sweet spot' for me last night, and it got stronger and stronger as the night progressed.
I'm so completely and totally "all in" on this one...
God, all that and I still forgot the comments on the wheel. I haven't tried the game with the controller yet, only the wheel. It was natural from the moment I started my first race.
I set the dead zone in the controller options to 1% and saturation to 100%, allowing a full travel in everything...steering, throttle, and brake. It was easy to drive from the moment I fired it up.
The FF is weak...period. Turns and acceleration don't really do much. It's really bizarre, because you can bang off another car and have not much of anything going on, but then you hit a curb and the wheel has a VERY strong jerk in your hands. You can feel when you lose grip over an elevation change, as the wheel goes slack somewhat, but overall I didn't think a lot about the FF, which means it's pretty forgettable to me.
They finally included an interface in a driving game that works with the wheel and it's obvious. Instead of the last Forza where you had to look around with the R stick, with a wheel you HAVE no R stick and you were limited. I found a controller option inside of the options that let me set my look left and right to X and B, look back to Y, and camera to A as well as the paddles for shifting, etc. I don't have a handbrake, but I've never been one to use a handbrake in a game anyway.
After doing that, I had no more blind spots, even in the bumper cam. As soon as the car cleared my "side" cameras when using X/B, it was cleared by me. I tested it a few times (and I apologize to drivers who just saw me weave over like a bat out hell during these tests, since you were unwitting guinea pigs for me to test clearances and whatnot), and never had a "quarterpanel collision" when thinking I cleared somebody. It's also quite nice that it's an instant-snap-view instead of a pan, so you can even use it mid corner to see if somebody's sliding up into you, etc.
The paint shop and most menus now use the LT and RT (pedals on the wheel) to move around in as well, so no more rotating and spinning with R stick and positioning with Left...so you can still actually use the paint shop and whatnot with the wheel.
Overall, the control was tight, the FF served its purpose but was largely ignored, and the interface was streamlined with the wheel in mind. I'm a happy man.
I set the dead zone in the controller options to 1% and saturation to 100%, allowing a full travel in everything...steering, throttle, and brake. It was easy to drive from the moment I fired it up.
The FF is weak...period. Turns and acceleration don't really do much. It's really bizarre, because you can bang off another car and have not much of anything going on, but then you hit a curb and the wheel has a VERY strong jerk in your hands. You can feel when you lose grip over an elevation change, as the wheel goes slack somewhat, but overall I didn't think a lot about the FF, which means it's pretty forgettable to me.
They finally included an interface in a driving game that works with the wheel and it's obvious. Instead of the last Forza where you had to look around with the R stick, with a wheel you HAVE no R stick and you were limited. I found a controller option inside of the options that let me set my look left and right to X and B, look back to Y, and camera to A as well as the paddles for shifting, etc. I don't have a handbrake, but I've never been one to use a handbrake in a game anyway.
After doing that, I had no more blind spots, even in the bumper cam. As soon as the car cleared my "side" cameras when using X/B, it was cleared by me. I tested it a few times (and I apologize to drivers who just saw me weave over like a bat out hell during these tests, since you were unwitting guinea pigs for me to test clearances and whatnot), and never had a "quarterpanel collision" when thinking I cleared somebody. It's also quite nice that it's an instant-snap-view instead of a pan, so you can even use it mid corner to see if somebody's sliding up into you, etc.
The paint shop and most menus now use the LT and RT (pedals on the wheel) to move around in as well, so no more rotating and spinning with R stick and positioning with Left...so you can still actually use the paint shop and whatnot with the wheel.
Overall, the control was tight, the FF served its purpose but was largely ignored, and the interface was streamlined with the wheel in mind. I'm a happy man.
Awesome, awesome impressions TC. Thanks man!
One big question though about the racing lines...
I love them, but if I recall correctly , in the first Forza, if I had them set to being on, then I was the only one seeing them, not anyone else online with me. Is that not the case anymore? I thought that was part of the individual settings and would not affect the other drivers!?!?
One big question though about the racing lines...
I love them, but if I recall correctly , in the first Forza, if I had them set to being on, then I was the only one seeing them, not anyone else online with me. Is that not the case anymore? I thought that was part of the individual settings and would not affect the other drivers!?!?
XBL Gamertag: Spooky Disco
It is, but that's my point...it becomes a huge crutch instead of using a driver's head to choose his line. It's a big, flashing light saying "brake here" instead of the human aspect of track memorization and actually racing it. So if "Joe" is racing without the line, he's much more apt to make a mistake pushing it in deep than "Jim", who has it on and drives like a robot because he can just follow the flashing line around the track.
Yes, "Joe" could turn it on, but it's such a huge crutch for a racing "sim", it just rubs me the wrong way so badly...it just removes a large "human" portion of racing, which is the very essence of motorsport. Humans interacting with a machine, judging a track and hitting their marks. You remove a huge part of that equation by adding in a big line telling you where to go.
Yes, "Joe" could turn it on, but it's such a huge crutch for a racing "sim", it just rubs me the wrong way so badly...it just removes a large "human" portion of racing, which is the very essence of motorsport. Humans interacting with a machine, judging a track and hitting their marks. You remove a huge part of that equation by adding in a big line telling you where to go.
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dbdynsty25
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Thanks for the clarification.TCrouch wrote:It is, but that's my point...it becomes a huge crutch instead of using a driver's head to choose his line. It's a big, flashing light saying "brake here" instead of the human aspect of track memorization and actually racing it. So if "Joe" is racing without the line, he's much more apt to make a mistake pushing it in deep than "Jim", who has it on and drives like a robot because he can just follow the flashing line around the track.
Yes, "Joe" could turn it on, but it's such a huge crutch for a racing "sim", it just rubs me the wrong way so badly...it just removes a large "human" portion of racing, which is the very essence of motorsport. Humans interacting with a machine, judging a track and hitting their marks. You remove a huge part of that equation by adding in a big line telling you where to go.
Understood, BUT...
For me, it works nicely to help me learn how to drive a good line. I am surprised that you would be as opposed to it as you are. While I agree that it takes the human element out of it, to go a bit extreme, the fact that it is a video game in itself takes the human element out already.
It is almost like saying if you don't choose to use manual shifting you aren't playing it the "pure" way. While in real life I love driving manual cars, I just cannot get a feel for it in a game. There is no feedback other than a meter and it just does not do it for me. I need to feel the car needing to change gears.
Also, without a racing line, I usually don't have a good feel at all of the layout even with a little mini-map in the corner. I get no peripheral vision and I am stuck with a limited view.
the reason I am a bit surprised that you are opposed to it (obviously you don't like using it) but I would think you would almost encourage others to use it until they became more comfortable. If anything it helps limit corn-holing and keeps the field a bit more competitive.
For those of us that don't feel a racing game as much and don't have the experience or time to invest in learning all the corners and tracks in and out, it provides a nice assist.
What I really love about the assisting racing line is that it lets me be able to take the car assists off!!! That is the trade off for me. With the line, I learn how to actually drive the track and don't have to rely on the cars assist functions.
It's an interesting debate and I guess I could see the counter argument being made for a different type of game like a shooter. Like, if R6 had an option for people to have a larger crosshair or auto-aim, no recoil, etc...
But I truly think if your good with or without the aids, it shouldn't matter. I don't think anyone that uses the aids is going to be more of a threat to a solid, experienced driver.
XBL Gamertag: Spooky Disco
Not really. Cars have Traction Control. They have ABS. They have Stability Control. They even have automatic transmissions. What they don't have is a floating line in your windshield telling you where to go. I know it's weird, and I can't even tell you WHY it bugs me so badly. It's not that the guy using the line is any more of a threat than somebody without it, even. It's the fact that it's always been something that developers put in as a crutch for people who just don't want to learn a track, I guess. It's the same instant gratification crowd that will get bored of it in a few days, probably.Spooky wrote:It is almost like saying if you don't choose to use manual shifting you aren't playing it the "pure" way. While in real life I love driving manual cars, I just cannot get a feel for it in a game. There is no feedback other than a meter and it just does not do it for me. I need to feel the car needing to change gears.
Yes, it definitely helps cornholing, but so does watching for tail lights and knowing that the cars in front of you are stopping, so you should probably leave some room. There's just so much of the actual racing that's taken away when that line is used...it turns it into nothing more than a bunch of Gran Turismo drones following a single line around a track. That's extreme, of course, and I know it's almost an elitist pr*ck mentality to have. Actually, there's no "almost" about it. It just "is". But that probably doesn't surprise many people that I try and force the world to use the "hardcore" way or some crap. Some guys are actually beginning to like it that I never would have expected to like it, and then other guys are probably being turned off by it.
However...if everybody needs assists to have more fun, then they can stay. That's kind of what I meant by "huge backlash" earlier. If people absolutely need them, then whatever floats their boat. I just have this weird idealistic little world in my head where everybody is on exactly even footing with exact cars and exact assists and exact everything and having an IROC battle, which is contradicting my next thought, which is "exactly even, but different cars". Yeah that makes sense...not. What I'm really more concerned with now is the tuning and upgrades on cars. They appear to HELP spread the field with more varied cars than what I thought they'd do; pigeon hole it into a super car and not much else. That can change, of course, but since you can limit everythin from horsepower to PI rating to anything in between, I just don't see it being a problem.
After re-reading that, it appears that I'm saying guys HERE are the instant gratification crowd. That's not it at all. I just think guys would be surprised at what they could actually do if they gave it an honest try...it's just very easy to go "I need it, I can't do it" and not actually see if it's possible.
Well, there is the (self described! ) elitism.TCrouch wrote: It's the fact that it's always been something that developers put in as a crutch for people who just don't want to learn a track, I guess. It's the same instant gratification crowd that will get bored of it in a few days, probably.
How many hours did you put into the game last night, Terry? You played into today, so...6? 8? Because of my console playing time, If I went out to buy the game today it probably wouldn't be until the middle of next week that I got 8 hours of track learning time. By then you'll have...50? 60 hours?
So then I see you online say next Thursday and would like to join you, but because I'm an 'instant gratification dude who just didn't want to learn the track', I shouldn't join you? If I tried to without that aid, I'd be cornholing folks left and right. (well, I guess left and right wouldn't then be 'cornholing per se...but I digress). I mean, what would happen is I'd head into a corner behind Terry, not brake well, and punt him off the track. Then Terry quits. Next time, I'm cautious and brake early, but Zeppo is behind me and slams into me because I brake TOO early, and then he quits in a big cloud of muttering. So I've ruined the night of two buddies.
The funny thing is is that I actually like driving the best with all aids off as well, but I do not have a good time at all when I am an obstacle to others enjoyment...hence the whole Sunday Driver thing.
(Forums slow for anyone else, lately?)I can see that TCrouch is getting at with that racing line feature.
The point is... as a driver in a race, you're going to have to be able to know the track sooner or later and not always rely on the ideal racing line feature as a crutch to lead you on the right path. The "magic line" shows the path to take. However, it will not be able to tell you the speed that car can carry into the corner that you're following on that path. It assumes you're going at the fastest speed possible navigating the corner. But this issue is that races don't always dictate that scenario. In an actual race there's a good chance that you'll be approaching the corner at a slower speed than what you would in a normal scenario. Your car could be positioned in the middle instead of the outside of the road leading into a tight corner because of a driver who's right in front of you occupying that spot. So you're forced to back off and trail behind. Things like that.
For another example... what if there's a situation where you're side-by-side with another driver heading into a sweeping right-hander leading to a straightaway to the start/finish line? It's the last lap of a race. Your car is on the outside (left side of track) and the other driver is inside (right side). Can't follow the ideal racing line since the apex of the road will lead you into a collision with the other driver. And you can't drive through it at the speed you're accustomed to since you won't have as much room on the track. Being that this is the last lap of the race, you wouldn't dare opt to slow down and ride behind him just so you will be able to follow the path of the magic line on the screen. So you're going to have to know what alternative line you can take and at what speed you can go continue to ride side-by-side with him (and hope he knows how to adapt to the situation and allow you a little room on the road).
What I'm saying is that following that ideal line all the time without trying to memorize the track will only make it more difficult to adapt to racing competitively in a pack. Yeah, you can keep that line on the screen, but it'll only slow your motivation to really learn the track. And worse... it'll make it easier for to pick up some bad habits while racing. Might as well take the bull by the horns and learn the hard way -- with no racing line showing on screen. It may get frustrating early on, but at the end it'll prove to be more rewarding approach to learning a track.
Kruza
The point is... as a driver in a race, you're going to have to be able to know the track sooner or later and not always rely on the ideal racing line feature as a crutch to lead you on the right path. The "magic line" shows the path to take. However, it will not be able to tell you the speed that car can carry into the corner that you're following on that path. It assumes you're going at the fastest speed possible navigating the corner. But this issue is that races don't always dictate that scenario. In an actual race there's a good chance that you'll be approaching the corner at a slower speed than what you would in a normal scenario. Your car could be positioned in the middle instead of the outside of the road leading into a tight corner because of a driver who's right in front of you occupying that spot. So you're forced to back off and trail behind. Things like that.
For another example... what if there's a situation where you're side-by-side with another driver heading into a sweeping right-hander leading to a straightaway to the start/finish line? It's the last lap of a race. Your car is on the outside (left side of track) and the other driver is inside (right side). Can't follow the ideal racing line since the apex of the road will lead you into a collision with the other driver. And you can't drive through it at the speed you're accustomed to since you won't have as much room on the track. Being that this is the last lap of the race, you wouldn't dare opt to slow down and ride behind him just so you will be able to follow the path of the magic line on the screen. So you're going to have to know what alternative line you can take and at what speed you can go continue to ride side-by-side with him (and hope he knows how to adapt to the situation and allow you a little room on the road).
What I'm saying is that following that ideal line all the time without trying to memorize the track will only make it more difficult to adapt to racing competitively in a pack. Yeah, you can keep that line on the screen, but it'll only slow your motivation to really learn the track. And worse... it'll make it easier for to pick up some bad habits while racing. Might as well take the bull by the horns and learn the hard way -- with no racing line showing on screen. It may get frustrating early on, but at the end it'll prove to be more rewarding approach to learning a track.
Kruza