Euro PS3 launch delayed until Mar 07

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:19 pm

I was being ironic.

I don't see too many DSPers getting the PS3, at least not before the first price cut.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:09 pm

More bad news for the PS3...one of its main technological advantages (rendering games in 1080p) will soon no longer be an advantage....

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6157933.html

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:14 pm

Actually, Engadget reported that it will be some kind of software scaling, not rendering games in 1080p.

Games will be rendered at 720p and then upscaled to 1080p.

But that raises a lot of questions.

Will the scaler in the X360 be better than those on 1080p HDTVs (which are designed to upscale 720p and 1080i sources to 1080p)?

Will the same output chip designed by the WebTV division actually output 1080p over component?

Will HDTVs accept 1080p signals over component inputs? Or will it upscale them again?

It's not clear how much of an advantage rendering games in 1080p will be. So far the only game confirmed to be rendered in 1080p appears to be GT HD. Some rumors of other games trying to have 1080p rendering like Virtual Tennis and Resistance. But if they render at higher resolutions, they can't use as much AA or other effects like lighting effects. So it's a tradeoff.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:24 pm

wco81 wrote:
It's not clear how much of an advantage rendering games in 1080p will be. So far the only game confirmed to be rendered in 1080p appears to be GT HD. Some rumors of other games trying to have 1080p rendering like Virtual Tennis and Resistance. But if they render at higher resolutions, they can't use as much AA or other effects like lighting effects. So it's a tradeoff.

I think this is more of a "me too" from MS to minimize the perceived/real technological advantage that PS3's were touted to have over 360. Remember the quote from Sony during E3?

"High definition gaming doesn't begin until the PS3 ships"....

Sony made it sound as if it was 1080p or nothing for HD gaming and it would not surprise me if amny Sony loyalists believed that garbage.

I personally do not see 1080p being a significant issue for the first couple of years of each console's life cycle. That and the fact that there are really VERY few 1080p sets being sold today means that the impact of this won't be felt for some time to come. However, I am surprised by this announcement as I was certain that 1080p in movies or games was out of the question from the 360....

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:33 pm

My understanding is that current and future games developed to run 720p will be upscaled but the system is also capable of rendering a 1080p game if it is developed as such.

1080p can run through component, but there aren't many TVs on the market (there's a Westinghouse and some newer, high-end models) that can accept the signal.

Personally, I don't think many developers will design a game at 1080p for either system. Just isn't worth the trouble for a minimal gain.

I'm interested in the potential of the 360 acting as an upscaling DVD player over component. I've read some mixed reports about whether or not that is possible for the US market.

More than anything else, I think this is a way for MS to prevent Sony from using 1080p as a promotional tool. Good move on their part.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:08 am

Consider the source.

A Gamepro guy apparently went to a developer and saw a Test Kit PS3 in action. Test Kit is the production model sent to developers to test their games, as opposed to a developer's kit, which is in a different case with different hardware.

Guy said the power supply was internal and the unit was quiet and it didn't heat up too much.

We'll see.

Some skeptics think that today's announcement of the HDMI on the $500 unit could give Sony an excuse for another delay. You know, they didn't have enough HDMI chips for both SKUs.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:29 am

wco81 wrote:Consider the source.

A Gamepro guy apparently went to a developer and saw a Test Kit PS3 in action. Test Kit is the production model sent to developers to test their games, as opposed to a developer's kit, which is in a different case with different hardware.

Guy said the power supply was internal and the unit was quiet and it didn't heat up too much.

We'll see.

Some skeptics think that today's announcement of the HDMI on the $500 unit could give Sony an excuse for another delay. You know, they didn't have enough HDMI chips for both SKUs.

Thanks...I will consider the source. I guess the proof for me will be what an end user can take home and plug in and play. THEIR impressions are the ones I will consider. I will be interested to see how these machines fare during the first 6 months/1 year. Are users having PS3 fail and in need of returning for new ones like the 360. If they manage to launch withOUT theses kinds of issues considering the amount of high-end hardware that is packed into such a small form factor, then I will be incredibly impressed and much more likely to buy one at some point. I think MS gave their 360 engineers a case design that was too ambitious (keeping is small and slim) for the kind of hardware and cooling capabilities they were going to be able to produce. They better get this fixed when they go to the .65 nm process or change the case/cooling system to stop all of the failures.

GameSeven · Post by **GameSeven** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:29 am

Interesting read, reasoned arugments to begin but belies some bias by the end. Interesting nonetheless.

http://www.electricsistahood.com/review ... broke.html

-G7

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:05 pm

Didn't feel the need to start another thread. Here is a blurb on PS3 game prices in japan..ouch.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/25/japan ... 00-85-usd/

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:51 pm

I suggest starting "Danimal and Major Divot's anti-PS3" thread, where you two can race to put up everything you can that puts PS3 in a bad light, regardless of how ridiculous and unfounded the source may be (Joystiq is probably the worst offender of posting rumors). We can start with a post that says Gran Turismo HD will cost $200...

EZSnappin · Post by **EZSnappin** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:04 pm

Kazuya wrote:I suggest starting "Danimal and Major Divot's anti-PS3" thread, where you two can race to put up everything you can that puts PS3 in a bad light, regardless of how ridiculous and unfounded the source may be (Joystiq is probably the worst offender of posting rumors). We can start with a post that says Gran Turismo HD will cost $200...

Kazuya:

were one to take the time to read the above linked article, one would find that Joystiq in this case is sourcing an IGN report, which is often cited as a "reputable" source. They state a reporter has multiple sources confirming that price range in Japan.

The majority of regular posters (and regular readers, like myself) understand that some people have a distinct bias towards/against certain systems. That your bias seems to require you to jump in defense of a non-attack on yourself is noted.

Dispute the post, not the poster.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:14 pm

EZSnappin wrote:
Kazuya wrote:I suggest starting "Danimal and Major Divot's anti-PS3" thread, where you two can race to put up everything you can that puts PS3 in a bad light, regardless of how ridiculous and unfounded the source may be (Joystiq is probably the worst offender of posting rumors). We can start with a post that says Gran Turismo HD will cost $200...
Kazuya:

were one to take the time to read the above linked article, one would find that Joystiq in this case is sourcing an IGN report, which is often cited as a "reputable" source. They state a reporter has multiple sources confirming that price range in Japan.

The majority of regular posters (and regular readers, like myself) understand that some people have a distinct bias towards/against certain systems. That your bias seems to require you to jump in defense of a non-attack on yourself is noted.

Dispute the post, not the poster.

I never doubted the story in question (even though personally I think it's crap). I do doubt Joystiq as a whole as they are fairly well known to have bias... Joystiq has had several of their articles debunked already, for the ones they were quick to report that the $500 PS3 was not upgradeable (fixed hard drive, no support for wireless controls).

EDIT: I see you toned down your post a bit with an edit, so I did the same. Fair enough.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:41 pm

Kazuya wrote:I suggest starting "Danimal and Major Divot's anti-PS3" thread, where you two can race to put up everything you can that puts PS3 in a bad light, regardless of how ridiculous and unfounded the source may be (Joystiq is probably the worst offender of posting rumors). We can start with a post that says Gran Turismo HD will cost $200...

I suggest that you pull your head out and READ the actual links posted (and no Einstein, I am not talking about the Joystiq link, either).

The most recent link from me is an MS statement regarding its support of 1080p rendering capabilities being enable in an upcoming XBox Live update. So because this is bad news for Sony, it is ridiculous and unfounded?

It IS bad new for Sony as they were tooting their horn loudly at E3 that "High definition gaming does NOT start until the PS3 ships". Whether you like it or not, this is NEGATIVE PUBLICITY FOR THE PS3. The fact that Sony was SO arrogant at E3 with all of their proclamations at how PS3 would do EVERYTHING better than the 360 it is gratifying to see them choking on their own hype.

Not to mention the fact that at least two of their launch titles will NOT have online capabilities (Tony Hawk and Virtua Tennis) because they have YET to deliver the developer kits for online play capabilities to developers. And they claimed how much better their online play features would blow XBox Live out of the water and it is FREE? To make matters worse, Sony has announced that they will ask the developers of PS3 games to develope their OWN ONLINE INTERFACES AND FEATURESETS. And yet, you criticize me for taking them to task for their blatantly arrogant attitudes and misinformative hype? You need to back away from the Sony Koolaid fountain because you have swallowed Sony's BS hook, line, and sinker....

Oh, and BTW, I guess you have not spent much time in the 360 threads the past week where I am openly criticizing MS for enduring my SECOND 360 failure in less than a year.

http://www.digitalsportspage.com/module ... 7&start=25

It's too bad that you can't participate here without letting things get personal....I'll just chalk it up to the Sony Koolaid.....

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:50 pm

DivotMaker wrote:
Kazuya wrote:I suggest starting "Danimal and Major Divot's anti-PS3" thread, where you two can race to put up everything you can that puts PS3 in a bad light, regardless of how ridiculous and unfounded the source may be (Joystiq is probably the worst offender of posting rumors). We can start with a post that says Gran Turismo HD will cost $200...
I suggest that you pull your head out and READ the actual links posted (and no Einstein, I am not talking about the Joystiq link, either).

The most recent link from me is an MS statement regarding its support of 1080p rendering capabilities being enable in an upcoming XBox Live update. So because this is bad news for Sony, it is ridiculous and unfounded?

It IS bad new for Sony as they were tooting their horn loudly at E3 that "High definition gaming does NOT start until the PS3 ships". Whether you like it or not, this is NEGATIVE PUBLICITY FOR THE PS3. The fact that Sony was SO arrogant at E3 with all of their proclamations at how PS3 would do EVERYTHING better than the 360 it is gratifying to see them choking on their own hype.

Not to mention the fact that at least two of their launch titles will NOT have online capabilities (Tony Hawk and Virtua Tennis) because they have YET to deliver the developer kits for online play capabilities to developers. And they claimed how much better their online play features would blow XBox Live out of the water and it is FREE? To make matters worse, Sony has announced that they will ask the developers of PS3 games to develope their OWN ONLINE INTERFACES AND FEATURESETS. And yet, you criticize me for taking them to task for their blatantly arrogant attitudes and misinformative hype? You need to back away from the Sony Koolaid fountain because you have swallowed Sony's BS hook, line, and sinker....

Oh, and BTW, I guess you have not spent much time in the 360 threads the past week where I am openly criticizing MS for enduring my SECOND 360 failure in less than a year.

http://www.digitalsportspage.com/module ... 7&start=25

It's too bad that you cant' participate without letting things get personal....I'll just chalk it up to the Sony Koolaid.....

Boy, that was long. I think you miss the point... a simple look at your profile history reveals that every thing out of your mouth about the PS3 is negative, to the point where you go out of your way to refute anything positive. When I read PS3 rumors passing as news on other sites, it's not a matter of if but *when* will Major Divot get around to posting this at DSP and going into a long rant. I think it's sad that a grown man has to "hate" on a piece of plastic and silicon, just to make himself feel good about his current system. If I didn't know better, I would think the tooth fairy told you that you could make the PS3 fail by strength of your will alone. Your hate is strong it might actually work.

Having said that, the "thread" idea was just a suggestion. You and Danimal have done a good job of posting facts instead of propoganda in recent times, which is why for the most part I have remained quiet about it lately. I certainly support your right to an opinion.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:57 pm

Kazuya wrote:I suggest starting "Danimal and Major Divot's anti-PS3" thread, where you two can race to put up everything you can that puts PS3 in a bad light, regardless of how ridiculous and unfounded the source may be (Joystiq is probably the worst offender of posting rumors). We can start with a post that says Gran Turismo HD will cost $200...

I could have sourced it from other places as well. I just though people might be interested in an article stating games might cost $75.

As for the rest of your comments I will heed Jareds warning from last time to keep things civil. Too bad you can't do the same.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:04 pm

Danimal wrote:
Kazuya wrote:I suggest starting "Danimal and Major Divot's anti-PS3" thread, where you two can race to put up everything you can that puts PS3 in a bad light, regardless of how ridiculous and unfounded the source may be (Joystiq is probably the worst offender of posting rumors). We can start with a post that says Gran Turismo HD will cost $200...
I could have sourced it from other places as well. I just though people might be interested in an article stating games might cost $75.

As for the rest of your comments I will heed Jareds warning from last time to keep things civil. Too bad you can't do the same.

Frankly, I don't believe you. Your bias is clear. And how was I not civil? Has it got to the point where people are so sensitive they can't stand up to a little criticism? Did I call you a name? I welcome all criticism of everything I post, and you will never ever hear me complain. You can bank that. You guys are making me long for bdoughboy with the sensitivity going on in here. Sheesh. Anyway, I will read Divot's inevitable reply and call it a wrap myself for this thread, providing I'm not addressed directly.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:29 pm

Kazuya wrote:
Boy, that was long. I think you miss the point... a simple look at your profile history reveals that every thing out of your mouth about the PS3 is negative, to the point where you go out of your way to refute anything positive. When I read PS3 rumors passing as news on other sites, it's not a matter of if but *when* will Major Divot get around to posting this at DSP and going into a long rant. I think it's sad that a grown man has to "hate" on a piece of plastic and silicon, just to make himself feel good about his current system. If I didn't know better, I would think the tooth fairy told you that you could make the PS3 fail by strength of your will alone. Your hate is strong it might actually work.

No, I did not miss any "point". Your "point' was yet another criticism of something I have posted here about the PS3. In this latest post, I was complimenting MS about something they are managing to pull off that was seemingly impossible. It is a piece of GOOD news for myself AND other 360 owners. It is bad news for Sony, yet you have gone out of your way yet again to turn a legitimate discussion into a personal pissing match. If you don't have anything other than this pre-pubescent BS to post, don't post.

Another thing you are terribly misguided on, I don't "hate the PS3". I don't "hate Sony". What I DO dislike is the fact that they think their sh!t doesn't stink and they can feed the public with misinformation and not be held accountable. There was NO reason for your post calling out Danimal and myself other than to start something that should not have been started. What did YOU add to the conversation? Another argument?

Kazuya wrote:Having said that, the "thread" idea was just a suggestion. You and Danimal have done a good job of posting facts instead of propoganda in recent times, which is why for the most part I have remained quiet about it lately. I certainly support your right to an opinion.

You might be able to con some users here at DSP, but the majority of those here see right through your "intent". As far as "remaining quiet lately", you should have extended your silence and thought about what you were posting before hitting the "Submit" button. If you have anything further to say to me, take it to PM. Otherwise, shut it.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:43 pm

Kazuya wrote:Frankly, I don't believe you. Your bias is clear.

LOL. Classic

And how was I not civil? Has it got to the point where people are so sensitive they can't stand up to a little criticism? Did I call you a name?

You're kidding right? Jared told you and me to cool it and take it PM if we had a problem. So yeah, I consdier singling me out because I posted something you didn't like a problem and pretty much a direct opposite of what he asked.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:44 pm

DivotMaker wrote: You might be able to con some users here at DSP, but the majority of those here see right through your "intent". As far as "remaining quiet lately", you should have extended your silence and thought about what you were posting before hitting the "Submit" button. If you have anything further to say to me, take it to PM. Otherwise, shut it.

No problem with any of the above (although I think you're kidding yourself that you don't hate Sony), but please spare me the holier than thou act. You're just another big mouth windbag on here (like myself, not trying to be insulting) who spends half of his time arguing. Your nobility is comical. And I'm pretty sure you know I'm taking nothing to PM, nor do I "shut it" on your command. I was content to let you get the last word in, but that was just too silly. Now let's be done.. if you like PMs so much, you send me one. I've said my piece.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:20 pm

I tell you what, I never thought MS had a chance at "dethrowning" Sony (and it still might not happen) but they sure have more of a chance than I ever thought possible. With their high price, and the fact that Blu Ray technology may not succeed, there seems to be a feeling of doom hanging over Sony. Maybe I'm way off but thats my take.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:24 pm

C'mon guys, cut the crap. Kaz, take this as a warning. You clearly started this by saying that Divot and Danimal should start their own anti-PS3 thread. Now you're trying to act all innocent when your post was clearly trolling. If you have a problem with this take it to pm's because I sure as hell am not about to get into a "my forum dick is bigger than yours" argument.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:25 pm

The other problem for Sony is that the gaming market has been keeping their company afloat...at least that's what I've read. I believe they are losing money in almost every other facet of their company. If gaming goes down, could be be seeing another major corporation taking a dive?

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:37 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:C'mon guys, cut the crap. Kaz, take this as a warning. You clearly started this by saying that Divot and Danimal should start their own anti-PS3 thread.

Wait a minute... I just want clarification. So you're saying I can't do that... that I can't suggest they start their own PS3 thread? Since there are no explicit rules to this forum, I am always at a loss to figure out what is allowed and what isn't. I'm curious as to why I'm getting a warning, when you clearly overlook instances of other people trying to start problems with me. I'm not trying to start anything, I just want clarification. From you or Jared is fine.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:44 pm

Kazuya wrote:I suggest starting "Danimal and Major Divot's anti-PS3" thread, where you two can race to put up everything you can that puts PS3 in a bad light, regardless of how ridiculous and unfounded the source may be (Joystiq is probably the worst offender of posting rumors). We can start with a post that says Gran Turismo HD will cost $200...

Kazuya wrote:
Wait a minute... I just want clarification. So you're saying I can't do that... that I can't suggest they start their own PS3 thread? Since there are no explicit rules to this forum, I am always at a loss to figure out what is allowed and what isn't. I'm curious as to why I'm getting a warning, when you clearly overlook instances of other people trying to start problems with me. I'm not trying to start anything, I just want clarification. From you or Jared is fine.

Unfreakingbelievable....

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:47 pm

Sony hasn't been doing as well because consumer electronics, which used to be their biggest business (and still may be in revenues), has been flat for the entire industry.

DVD was a huge hit but the price of players plummeted so nobody was making big profits on hardware. Only Toshiba and Warners made big money because of their patents.

Sony's movies and music divisions would do well when they had a blockbuster franchise like Spiderman come out. But other years, they might be losing money if a big movie bombs.

Then there's the fact that they missed out on the MP3 thing.

Games have provided half their profits because of the huge market share they used to have.

But in the last year, consumer electronics have made a big of a come back, with Bravia LCDs gaining market share. Meanwhile, Spiderman 3 is due so they should have a good year there.

I don't think they're in danger of going out of business. If that ever comes close, someone will buy them just for that name.