MLB Off-season discussion

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:10 pm

Turns out the Braves are getting 11 million of the 26 owed to Renteria paid for. That makes Renteria a bargain at 5 mil per year, instead of the 13 that Furcal is making. Wow...

EDiddy · Post by **EDiddy** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:01 pm

Womak and 900,000 for minors. Good Solid move by the reds. Womack best years are behind him, but it is a definit upgrade to what was there before. Now, lets just get some more pitching for the best Offense in the NL.

Reds Fans, where is Ryan Freel going to play??? He really needs to be on the field.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:27 pm

Even with the $900K from NY, the Reds are still paying the majority of Womack's salary ($1.1M) this year. That's a lot of money for a pinch runner.

I hear he's a good clubhouse guy and he has cool eyebrows, but I don't understand what acquiring Womack has to do with trying to build a winning team.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:31 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Turns out the Braves are getting 11 million of the 26 owed to Renteria paid for. That makes Renteria a bargain at 5 mil per year, instead of the 13 that Furcal is making. Wow...

Renteria's no bargain anymore, even at 5 mil. He had two fluke years in a stacked Cardinal's lineup and came back to reality in 2004 (.287, 10HR, 72RBI) with career average type numbers. The Red Sox were probably hoping for 2002/2003 like production, but he was playing over his head. His '05 numbers weren't that far off from his normal season averages.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:42 pm

jondiehl wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Turns out the Braves are getting 11 million of the 26 owed to Renteria paid for. That makes Renteria a bargain at 5 mil per year, instead of the 13 that Furcal is making. Wow...
Renteria's no bargain anymore, even at 5 mil. He had two fluke years in a stacked Cardinal's lineup and came back to reality in 2004 (.287, 10HR, 72RBI) with career average type numbers. The Red Sox were probably hoping for 2002/2003 like production, but he was playing over his head. His '05 numbers weren't that far off from his normal season averages.

Ahhh...but that's where you're wrong when it comes to SS production. Take a look at Furcals numbers last year:

.284, 12 HR, 58 RBI, 100 Runs and 46 steals (.348 OBP)

Are those numbers worth 8 million more than Renterias?

.276, 8 HR, 70 RBI, 100 Runs and 9 steals (.335 OBP)

Seems fairly even to me. The Stolen bases and the Errors (last year, but previous to that, Renteria was clearly better) are the only area where Furcal is clearly superior.

The Braves were going to give Furcal 9 mil a year. Assuming Renteria is just more comfortable in the NL which is entirely possible...it's going to be a nice savings of 4 mil. I don't like seeing players decline, but I've also seen careers resurrected in Atlanta. I hope to see the same from Renteria this year.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:48 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote: Ahhh...but that's where you're wrong when it comes to SS production. Take a look at Furcals numbers last year

I never mentioned Furcal. He's obviously even more overpriced. My point was that Renteria is no bargain. They're both bad options at those prices IMO. Renteria is just the lesser of two evils to the Braves I guess.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:58 pm

jondiehl wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote: Ahhh...but that's where you're wrong when it comes to SS production. Take a look at Furcals numbers last year
I never mentioned Furcal. He's obviously even more overpriced. My point was that Renteria is no bargain. They're both bad options at those prices IMO. Renteria is just the lesser of two evils to the Braves I guess.

SS production is severly lacking across the board...it's not like you're gonna find anyone better for much cheaper. I mention Furcal because he's the guy they are trying to replace.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:32 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
jondiehl wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote: Ahhh...but that's where you're wrong when it comes to SS production. Take a look at Furcals numbers last year
I never mentioned Furcal. He's obviously even more overpriced. My point was that Renteria is no bargain. They're both bad options at those prices IMO. Renteria is just the lesser of two evils to the Braves I guess.
SS production is severly lacking across the board...it's not like you're gonna find anyone better for much cheaper. I mention Furcal because he's the guy they are trying to replace.

Julio Lugo, who the Braves were also looking at, would have been much cheaper and put up similar numbers to Renteria.

EDiddy · Post by **EDiddy** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:34 pm

Ummm please name the reds starting 2B if not womack....case closed.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:35 pm

jondiehl wrote: Julio Lugo, who the Braves were also looking at, would have been much cheaper and put up similar numbers to Renteria.

True, but I'll start worrying about the Braves off season moves the year they don't win the division

Millennium · Post by **Millennium** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:59 pm

According to the AP, Miguel Tejada is requesting a trade from the Orioles.

I would post a link, but I think I am going to go hang myself first...

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:07 pm

So lets see...Marte to the Orioles for Miggy now. LOL....this is all just a ss circle jerk.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:37 pm

Millennium wrote:According to the AP, Miguel Tejada is requesting a trade from the Orioles.

I would post a link, but I think I am going to go hang myself first...

Yeah, it does seem that the O's are going another direction. There's talk on E. Hinske from the BJ's.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:58 pm

Renteria could have stolen 25 bases if the Red SOx allowed him to run since the Sox have the philosophy of station to station baseball.

JackDiggity · Post by **JackDiggity** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:28 am

EDiddy wrote:Ummm please name the reds starting 2B if not womack....case closed.

Ryan Freel.

Here's my Reds line up.

1B.........Dunn
2B........ Freel
SS.........Lopez
3B.........Encarcion
LF..........Wily Mo
CF.........Griffey
RF..........Kerns
C............LaRue

P............Anyone they can get!

EDiddy · Post by **EDiddy** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:34 am

Freel at second, hmmm. I guess he can play anywhere cant he. I hate the DH, unless Wily mo could play there.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:37 pm

I think the Reds would be better off making Freel their everyday 2B. He might make 40 errors but at least he has a chance of improving defensively if they stick him out there instead of moving him to a different position every game.

Freel's not going to be Joe Moran but he gets on a lot more often than Womack's abysmal OBP and he's probably better at the one thing Tony does well, stealing bases. If Freel totally sucks this year, at least the Reds know if they need another 2B in 2007. They'll need to do this anyways with Womack at 2B because he's a one-year "solution" at best.

snaz16 · Post by **snaz16** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:24 pm

JackDiggity wrote:
EDiddy wrote:Ummm please name the reds starting 2B if not womack....case closed.
Ryan Freel.

Here's my Reds line up.

1B.........Dunn
2B........ Freel
SS.........Lopez
3B.........Encarcion
LF..........Wily Mo
CF.........Griffey
RF..........Kerns
C............LaRue

P............Anyone they can get!

Thats till Junior goes down again on the DL. 2 years of relatively good health in a row? Good luck

there will be plenty of time for Freel.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:34 pm

If Freel is busy elsewhere, I'd rather see what William Bergolla can do against ML pitching. How much worse than Womack can he be?

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:15 pm

Tejada is going to be tough to move. He's owed about 48 million and the only team I could think now that would required his immediate services would be BOS once they got rid of Renteria. But who would go the other way? M. Ramirez? He's owed about 57 million, a huge contract no one is ready to take. And here's the dilemma. According to O's VP, J. Duquette, He still expects the team to be competitive (the only move they made was R. Hernandez I think) so trading Tejada within the same division could hunt him in the long run.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:58 pm

Videogame tycoon Todd Pratt signed with the Braves as a backup C. Pratt's site hosted SR back in the day.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:18 pm

Clemens back to the Red Sox? Maybe.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2255775

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:13 pm

Matt Morris to the Giants. 3 yrs/$27M.

Sure he's overpaid but that's the market. Apparently, he was having trouble getting other teams to bite on the third year. Still, three years for a relatively consistent pitcher isn't too long with the usual question marks around health. The Giants basically have 1-2 years before the window closes on Barry Lamar Bonds. Maybe the Giants can flip Morris for a prospect or two at the 2007 trading deadline.

Schmidt, Morris, Lowry, Cain and TBD is a pretty decent rotation. The Giants ancient defense won't be doing them any favors, but hopefully the bullpen will be OK.

I'm surprised the Cardinals have been quiet this off season. They need something to put them over the hump. Morris isn't great but he's better than St. Louis' other options.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:28 pm

Mike Matheny is a buddy/former teammate of mine and I know from talking to Mike that Morris is a close friend - I'm guessing that was a big factor in his signing. They were both very tight with Daryl Kile and became even closer after his death. It helps that Matheny is a stud behind the dish also.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:31 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:I'm surprised the Cardinals have been quiet this off season. They need something to put them over the hump. Morris isn't great but he's better than St. Louis' other options.

Cardinals management has been under fire in the local media and on the local sports radio stations for the past couple weeks. Fans are miffed as well after we failed to make a big signing after offering Burnett 4 years at 40 mil. The great majority breathed a big sigh of relief when we didn't sign A.J. but figured we had sufficient funds to pick up another pitcher or outfielder.

Everyone figured we'd sign Grudz to a two year 6 million dollar deal. He wanted to stay and that is what he requested. Seemed like a bargain but for whatever reason they didn't sign him. I suppose there was a little concern about his age and injuries.

Ownership is now claiming to only have about 8-10 mil to spend on the bullpen and possibly an outfielder. Fans and media are calling b.s. When ownership was clamouring for a new stadium, they said that'd bring additional revenue to the team. Also, and talk about greedy but ownership took advantage of the fans by selling off momentos of the old Busch Stadium (we're talking urinals, dirt, etc.)

There is speculation that Marquis is on the trading block for a corner outfielder. If that happens, I'm still confident in starting rotation (Carpenter, Mulder, Suppan, Reyes, and ?)

Ownership is also playing the hometown discount card. It's worked in the past with some players (Carpenter, McGwire, Pujols), but failed with Morris. I think the Cards were only offering around 4 mil a year. Personally, I didn't care one way or another whether Morris stayed or left. I'd rather him than Burnett at 8 mil a year than Burnett at 11 mil a year. Still, Morris isn't worth 8 mil a year though he is still quite productive. However, that's how the market is. For Morris's sake, I'm glad he walked. He shouldn't have to bow down to the Cards front office. I can't believe he's only 31 as it seems he's been around forever.

Nice pick up and I hope he does well. He sounds excited to be reunited with Matheny.