OT: Election/Politics thread, Part 6

TheGamer · Post by **TheGamer** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:37 pm

RobVarak wrote:
TheGamer wrote:
RobVarak wrote: Bullshit.
no its not
LOL If those images provoke the same responses, then I would suggest that the reacting party may be seriously unhinged. And if so, then it's because of their lack of knowledge about Jonestown rather than anything inherently reacist about the Goddamn Kool Aid Man. Seriously, people!

Personally, I didn't think much about it. I was attempting to explain why someone "could" think its racist and stereotypical since PK and JD inquired.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:40 pm

Thank the Good Lord Almighty that Bush's last day finally came. When I think back on his legacy, the last verse of Dylan's classic will probably always come to mind (that, and the stupid look on his face while reading My Pet Goat as 9/11 was happening):

"Come you masters of war
You that build the big guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
While the death count gets higher
Then you hide in your mansion
While the young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead."

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:41 pm

Is it wrong that I, a very Caucasian person, am proud that I got the Kool Aid thing without assistance?

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:46 pm

GTHobbes wrote:Thank the Good Lord Almighty that Bush's last day finally came. When I think back on his legacy, the last verse of Dylan's classic will probably always come to mind (that, and the stupid look on his face while reading My Pet Goat as 9/11 was happening):

Original.

When I think of his time in office, I think of Shakespeare...and a line which Obama will understand with new depths in the coming days and months.

"Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown."

TheGamer · Post by **TheGamer** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:55 pm

pk500 wrote:One final observation, and you can take it any way you like. Those who know me realize this is not a racist rant.

I watched coverage on MSNBC, and nine out 10 crowd shots showed black visitors only. I know and very much appreciate that this is a monumental day for blacks and race relations in America, but Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America, not of the United Black States of America.

Many Americans of all races are happy and hopeful about today's events, not just black Americans.

MSNBC was playing overdosing pander bear to the cause of the day, as usual.

Take care,
PK

My in-laws are in Washington and my FIL called and suggested the percentage of black folks was about 75%. I thought that number to be a bit high, but the news coverage could suggest he was correct.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:55 pm

Brando70 wrote:Is it wrong that I, a very Caucasian person, am proud that I got the Kool Aid thing without assistance?

I don't get the fried chicken thing; every time I eat at a buffet with fried chicken available the percentage of blacks and white filling their plates with it seems to be roughly the same. Obviously it's historical, but it seems to be really outdated now.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:00 pm

TheGamer wrote:
pk500 wrote:One final observation, and you can take it any way you like. Those who know me realize this is not a racist rant.

I watched coverage on MSNBC, and nine out 10 crowd shots showed black visitors only. I know and very much appreciate that this is a monumental day for blacks and race relations in America, but Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America, not of the United Black States of America.

Many Americans of all races are happy and hopeful about today's events, not just black Americans.

MSNBC was playing overdosing pander bear to the cause of the day, as usual.

Take care,
PK
My in-laws are in Washington and my FIL called and suggested the percentage of black folks was about 75%. I thought that number to be a bit high, but the news coverage could suggest he was correct.

Appreciate the on-the-ground feedback! Definitely adds perspective and context to the footage being shown.

Take care,
PK

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:09 pm

So we have Hobbs hoping for the death of a President? Nice turn

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:10 pm

GTHobbes wrote:Thank the Good Lord Almighty that Bush's last day finally came.

Well, you and many wanted change, now you have it. Lets measure Bush's legacy against Obama's in say...4 years or so? I am certainly not the Bush supporter that I was when I first voted for him 8 years ago, but I do think that times have changed and it is a different world than it was 8 years ago...DRASTICALLY different in many respects. I respect that you and many (including damn near the entire media) hate Bush and what he has done, hasn't done, and/or represents. I just don't find him to be the "evil" that many have portrayed him as and I think the disrespect and ill will towards him is unwarranted in many cases and as an absolute minimum, should be shared with the entire administration, not just one man.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:17 pm

DivotMaker wrote: I think the disrespect and ill will towards him is unwarranted in many cases and as an absolute minimum, should be shared with the entire administration, not just one man.

I agree with you, Divot. I feel just as much ill will toward Cheney (in particular), Rumsfeld, Rice, etc., as I do toward W. I don't know how Obama will fare, but I do believe it's a very good day, and thanks for respecting my opinion.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:18 pm

DivotMaker wrote:I just don't find him to be the "evil" that many have portrayed him as and I think the disrespect and ill will towards him is unwarranted in many cases and as an absolute minimum, should be shared with the entire administration, not just one man.

Rick Wagoner, Bob Nardelli and Alan Mulally aren't the only ones making stupid decisions at GM, Chrysler and Ford, respectively, but they caught the scorn of Congress during recent hearings.

Catching all the sh*t is part of the job requirement of a CEO, as the buck stops with him. The President is the CEO of the U.S., so he catches the sh*t when his customers are unhappy.

That's the way it's been, is and always will be.

Take care,
PK

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:30 pm

TheGamer wrote:
pk500 wrote:
JackDog wrote: ??? You have my ear man. How is that racist? Seriously Scott,I'm interested in hearing your take on this.
Same here. Educate me. DB.

Take care,
PK
I'll try. Kool Aid is a cheap drink that I know at least my family drank because we couldn't afford anything more expensive. Probably a lot of people on welfare drink kool aid. The avatar, using the slogan of the campaign of the first black president could probably provoke the same responses as a caricature if someone sitting on a porch eating watermelon.

Damn man,you got Kool Aid growing up? Not us. We were stuck with Flavor Aid or Wyler's. It was cheaper than Kool Aid.

PS. to Rob. Flavor Aid was the drink of choice for the idiots in Jonestown.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:31 pm

fsquid wrote:So we have Hobbs hoping for the death of a President? Nice turn

Pretty tacky. Doesn't surprise me though.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:32 pm

RobVarak wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Simply racial stereotypes. That's all.
I think it's more of an allusion to Jonestown than anything racial. May want to recalibrate that radar.

The intention is what Rob said here. I'm not familiar with racial stereotypes involving Kool Aid.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:34 pm

pk500 wrote:
DivotMaker wrote:I just don't find him to be the "evil" that many have portrayed him as and I think the disrespect and ill will towards him is unwarranted in many cases and as an absolute minimum, should be shared with the entire administration, not just one man.
Rick Wagoner, Bob Nardelli and Alan Mulally aren't the only ones making stupid decisions at GM, Chrysler and Ford, respectively, but they caught the scorn of Congress during recent hearings.

Catching all the sh*t is part of the job requirement of a CEO, as the buck stops with him. The President is the CEO of the U.S., so he catches the sh*t when his customers are unhappy.

That's the way it's been, is and always will be.

Take care,
PK

Catching sh*t and wishing death upon them are two different things.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:38 pm

JackDog wrote:
pk500 wrote:
DivotMaker wrote:I just don't find him to be the "evil" that many have portrayed him as and I think the disrespect and ill will towards him is unwarranted in many cases and as an absolute minimum, should be shared with the entire administration, not just one man.
Rick Wagoner, Bob Nardelli and Alan Mulally aren't the only ones making stupid decisions at GM, Chrysler and Ford, respectively, but they caught the scorn of Congress during recent hearings.

Catching all the sh*t is part of the job requirement of a CEO, as the buck stops with him. The President is the CEO of the U.S., so he catches the sh*t when his customers are unhappy.

That's the way it's been, is and always will be.

Take care,
PK
Catching sh*t and wishing death upon them are two different things.

Agreed. I was referring to the general acrimony, not the Dylan lyrics, the posting of which by GT was incredibly tacky.

Take care,
PK

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:38 pm

Wikipedia on the phrase:

The earliest known use of the term in its figurative, non-literal context (that is, outside descriptions of people actually drinking real Kool-Aid), is from a 1987 quote about former Washington, D.C., mayor Marion Barry in the Washington Post.[2][3] The term is derived from the 1978 cult suicide in Jonestown, Guyana. Jim Jones, the leader of the Peoples Temple, persuaded his followers to move to Jonestown. Late in the year he ordered his followers to commit suicide by drinking grape-flavored Flavor Aid laced with potassium cyanide. (Those unable, such as infants, and those unwilling to comply received involuntary injections.) A camera from inside the compound shows a large chest being opened, clearly showing boxes of both Flavor Aid and Kool-Aid.[4] There is also testimony from criminal investigators at the Jonestown inquest stating that there were "cool aid" [sic] packets there.[5] It is unknown whether these are a reference to the Kool-aid brand packets from the trunk, or simply a generic use of the more popular brand for the product. In what is now commonly called the "Jonestown Massacre", a large majority of the 913 people later found dead drank the brew. (The discrepancy between the idiom and the actual occurrence is likely due to Flavor Aid's relative obscurity, compared to the easily recognizable Kool-Aid.) An earlier usage than 1987 can be attested at least as early as 1982 in the film "The Slumber Party Massacre" by Amy Holden Jones. In the scene where Valerie 'Val' Bates prepares Kool-Aid, she offers a glass to her sister and says "As the famous Jim Jones once said: 'should have been drinking Kool-Aid'".

The saying "Do not drink the Kool-Aid" now commonly refers to the Jonestown tragedy, meaning "Do not trust any group you find to be a little on the kooky side," or "Whatever they tell you, do not believe it too strongly."[6] Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly is known for using the term in this manner.[7]

Having "drunk the Kool-Aid" also refers to being a strong or fervent believer in a particular philosophy or mission — wholeheartedly or blindly believing in its virtues.[8][9] During the administration of George W. Bush, military officials further refined this usage, joking that the truest believers drink the Kool-Aid before a meeting, not after it.[10]

JackDog wrote:

Catching sh*t and wishing death upon them are two different things.

Not where the anti-Bush Left is concerned. It's just being patriotic!

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:40 pm

Look. I drink Kool Aid to this day, love fried chicken, watermelon, collard greens, black-eyed peas...and I'm as Caucasian as the audience at a Michael Bolton concert.

I'd say that people who find that avatar racially tinged have been drinking too much of something other than Kool Aid.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:43 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:I just think it's odd how you get the first black pres and you end up using the Kool-Aide man instead of him in an avatar. Being that Kool-Aide is joked about being a 'african american' drink by comedians such as Dave Chappel and Chris Rock, both african american...it would seem to me that a white guy shouldn't be using it as his avatar.

You are right though Rob...I suppose I'm not equipped to say whether it is or isn't since I'm a white dude, but it certainly made me raise my eyebrows when I saw it. The better question is what the hell is the point of sticking the Kool-Aide man in an avatar about the new president? Where is the affiliation? Last I checked, he didn't vote. So why not use Tony the Tiger? That's the point.

Obviously you guys don't agree with me...so whatever. It just caught my eye and seemed like it could be deemed offensive. I've been wrong before.

I understand where your coming from now. I'm pretty sure Teal didn't mean it that way. I'd be surprised if he did.

Dave and Chris were wrong. I know Sunny D,Lotsa Pop,Choc-Cola and Fago were the drinks of choice in my neighborhood corner store.

TheGamer · Post by **TheGamer** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:43 pm

JackDog wrote:Damn man,you got Kool Aid growing up? Not us. We were stuck with Flavor Aid or Wyler's. It was cheaper than Kool Aid.

Yeah we got kool aid, but had to skimp on the sugar. We couldn't get the kind of sugar that would actually dissolve in the water. we still had the sugar granules floating around in the drink no matter how much we stirred.

Speaking of Jonestown. did anyone see the documentary on CNN from a couple of months ago? Very interesting.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:44 pm

Speaking for The Left, most of us didn't want Bush dead. We just wanted him gone, back to doing the one thing he does well, clearing brush. The problems facing the Obama Administration are too large for me to get excited, but I am glad to see The Decider removed from any decision-making processes.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:44 pm

The last drink of Wyler's or Kool-Aid in my white household as a kid always was the worst -- nothing but sugar sludge with some colored water.

Take care,
PK

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:45 pm

TheGamer wrote:
JackDog wrote:Damn man,you got Kool Aid growing up? Not us. We were stuck with Flavor Aid or Wyler's. It was cheaper than Kool Aid.
Yeah we got kool aid, but had to skimp on the sugar. We couldn't get the kind of sugar that would actually dissolve in the water. we still had the sugar granules floating around in the drink no matter how much we stirred.

I know the sugar your talking about. It never sank.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:49 pm

pk500 wrote:The last drink of Wyler's or Kool-Aid in my white household as a kid always was the worst -- nothing but sugar sludge with some colored water.

Take care,
PK

Dom and I are hooked on sugar free grape Kool Aid. Ther only drawback is it makes pinching a loaf a St Patties Day experiment. It's green!!!

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:51 pm

JackDog wrote:Dave and Chris were wrong. I know Sunny D,Lotsa Pop,Choc-Cola and Fago were the drinks of choice in my neighborhood corner store.

How about a shout-out for Canfield's Cola, which made Diet Chocolate Fudge soda? They made RC Cola seem luxurious by comparison.

Sunny D also made me think of Five-Alive, which was like some zombie citrus abortion in a carton.