Post WE7-I Impressions Here

TheMightyPuck · Post by **TheMightyPuck** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:22 am

EA has that "If it´s in the game" thing. I think Konami should start using "Now with Heroin(tm)"

jimd · Post by **jimd** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:31 pm

Cool thing last night:
 
 I´m playing as Roma in my league versus Juventus and its a heated, close game. Lots of tackling, very strong defense on both sides.
 
 With about 10 minutes to go Neved gets the ball and dribbles around two guys with ease. As he approaches the box, my defender Panucci lunges in desparateley and Nedved goes down. Whistle blows. Now it is right on the edge of the box, and I am not sure if the ref is going to give him the PK or just a direct kick.
 
 Commentator Peter Bracking is yelling ,"Is it a penalty?!" The screen goes to a close up of the ref running into the box pointing to the spot...penalty! Bracking says ,"Oh my he´s called for a penalty!"
 
 Very realistic, and awesome how the game palyed with my emotions like that--and that they have a special cut scene for a close penalty.
 
 Needless to say Trezuguet put away the PK, and despite a furious final effort from Roma in the last 10 minutes, I lost 1-0.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:32 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-22 10:03, tjung0831 wrote:
 After playing around with this game last night until 2am, i will say that i´m having a blast with it so far and it´s a better game than the Fifa series from what I can tell even though i haven´t played 2004 yet. There are some things that I think get overlooked though and i´m not sure why. One thing I noticed is sometimes players just stand around. I don´t know how many times I passed the ball to a teammate last night and he just stood there while a defender just beat him to the ball. Also while playing on two star level I was able to score goals in the same manor of previous versions of Fifa. Take the ball down the wing, cross it over and look for the header. Don´t get me wrong, I think the game is good but sometimes I wonder if this series gets a little bit of a pass just because it´s not an EA game. Anyway looking forward to playing more and also going to rent Fifa 2004 today. I want to see just how big the difference is in gameplay.
 
 Tim
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 First, Tim, if you hit turbo when waiting for a pass, you can break the player out of his stand-in-place stupor and get him to chase towards the ball. Hitting turbo is the key on those dodgy passes.
 
 Second, in response to this bit: "I think the game is good but sometimes I wonder if this series gets a little bit of a pass just because it´s not an EA game. Anyway looking forward to playing more and also going to rent Fifa 2004 today. I want to see just how big the difference is in gameplay."
 
 I have found the Konami soccer games in general, and especially the latest two, WE6 and WE7, are among those very, very rare games where the more one plays it, the more one finds to like in the game. One can throw this thing in the machine, play a game or two, have some success, and feel like "well, it´s a pretty good game, but not all that" (as PK did last year when he played a little WE6 on his trip to Indy; now he didn´t bad-mouth it, but he did express some disappointment of the not-a-real-breakthrough variety). BUT in this game, you can´t even scratch the surface in a few sittings.
 
 This is one of those games where 100, 150, 200 games in you may discover a move or a technique, a new style or strategy, or see a sequence that you never thought of before. That is decidedly NOT the case in FIFA (I haven´t even played FIFA in a couple years, though, but nothing I have seen makes me beleive much has changed in that series). That is to say, the depth of this game is so great that the more you play, the more you see, the more you notice, the more you can try to do, the more control you have, the more creative you can be, the better you can use individual players, etc. etc.
 
 I know for me, I can pretty much play the game without using any of the fancy moves, or dribble moves, or one-two passes, and so on, and still play a pretty good game of soccer. But as I get more confortable with the controls, and experiment more, the gameplay really opens up to new heights. That combined with the difficulty I seem to have relaxing and getting in to the rhythm of the game (I tend to run around too much, try to push the ball up too fast, too much with the turbo all the time making for easy pickin´s by the CPU defense), means that for me, I will never tire of the gameplay. I may get frustrated at losing, and pissed at the CPU, but never bored. (Hmmm, kind of like watching real soccer. . . .)
 
 I guess what I am saying is that this is one of those very rare games where a rental may not blow your socks off (especially if you are familiar with Konami soccer), but the more you play and get used to the game, the better it gets, and the sky´s nearly the limit as to how good it really can be.
 
 And that´s not to mention the Master League. Now I am one who just does not like franchise modes in general, but with the Master League, I just absolutely love it. I had a HUGE turn of events recently in my Master league that really got me going.
 
 First, I am using the PES team modified to be my beloved Metros, which is just stupid awesome (I even did a half-decent job making the team flag look like the Metros´ shield). (I really wish they had "New York" as a commentary team-name option, but oh well; now they are just "---".) But the real treat is that after a miserable season where I won my first game but only 3 more, and had ZERO success with transfers, I was desparate to get some players in the off season. The new search function, combined with other new negotiation features (the negotioation list especially) made the offseason very interesting for me. But it was soooooo frustrating. No one would come to my team, even guys who were not signed to anyone, like Donovan or McBride. I was throwing out offers of cash left and right, and had next to no takers, until the very last week before the season starts. Suddenly I get 3 really good players, and am in debt some 6000 credits.
 
 AHH, I can´t tell you the great feeling when I saw that negative number in pts. held, as I knew that meant good players had said ´yes!´ And what´s really sweet about Master League is to go to training, where now I am training AGAINST the idiots I used to be playing WITH. The free training is just too much fun, and this type of little detail about it I think is just superb. Now I am hitting the training, trying to get that teamwork number up, and trying to figure out how best to use my new kick-ass players, and training is much, much harder because my old starters are now on the bench and playing against me. Of course, this trend will continue as those players who seem so awesome to me now will eventually become my bench-warmers. The sheer magnitude of depth in the player abilities is hard to comprehend. The very real differences among the players in quality and style make a real impact on the gameplay from game to game, and the enormous number of players in the game. . . well, the mind boggles.
 
 I know people love thier Premiereship patches and the real club teams, as they should, but to play a few seasons in Master League is to really get a sense of the overall diversity in this game. I find players really do have palpable personality, and the more I get used to the individuals (hey, at this point I am so poor I have only players I have never heard of in real life, except maybe one), the better I can play with them and the more fun I have. It´s a real credit to the game that I can have so much fun (albeit losing a lot) with the stock ML team, but upgrade in quality just a little at a few positions, and the whole team (and experience) is entirely different. And in the grand scheme, these players are pretty much crap! (Soon I must open up that Beloved Brazil so I can get in some Pele time!)
 
 Master League is an excellent way to get a sense of just how much variety there is to be had in this game. Of couse, someone could play WE7 forever and never touch the ML. And that´s just how good this game is <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif">

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:44 pm

Hugo/Zeppo ("The Man of 1000 Usernames) wrote:
 
 (I tend to run around too much, try to push the ball up too fast, too much with the turbo all the time making for easy pickin´s by the CPU defense), means that for me, I will never tire of the gameplay. I may get frustrated at losing, and pissed at the CPU, but never bored. (Hmmm, kind of like watching real soccer. . . .)
 -------------
 
 F´in AMEN to that! I finally had an epiphany last night. After playing that way all week, I realized that I could just go slower and actually score LOL
 
 I really have just been playing friendlies here and there, but I played a 10-team Konami cup last night with England, and I realized the value of laying off the turbo. My team wasn´t totally gassed mid-2nd half, and I was able to pass MUCH more crisply. Basically I only used turbo to get back on defense and make the occassional drive into space with a MF. Played France to a scoreless draw in the final about 1:00am last night. I´ll replay it today because I refuse to end any game with penalties.
 
 BTW, is there any way to change the stupid clock? I hate that it resets at half.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:37 pm

Yeah Rob, last year I had a breakthrough when playing a friend of mine who doesn´t play games often. I was trying to take it easy on him, by not only not turboing, but just tapping the D-pad rather than holding it down, and letting the players do that slow little hlaf-jog behind the ball. AMAZING! I discovered how much quicker and faster you can pass the ball or touch it away with turbo using this method (just like the real deal!). In fact, i ended up toying with him rather than taking it easy, since I could hold posession so well by NOT running around all over the place, and paying much more attention to the space on the field rather than the ball and the players.
 
 In the new game I am loving the L1 button to really keep that ball close. Then you just wait for the defender to commit before making a move, instead of just going at him like in a hockey or hoops game.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:12 pm

Well I´m in the camp that hates the ML.
 
 However the new league and cup feature of fatigue and carried over yellow cards is fantastic.
 
 I just wish there were more teams to choose from. I would love to have a 20 team league but 16 fits okay. Last night I fired up a Champions League tourney and the feeling of different teams was greater than before.
 
 And I can´t stress this enough. The possession quality of this game is remarkable. I love how the CPU holds on to the ball at sets up plays. Then tend to hold onto the ball a little too much late in the game when they are tied or down. But they also tend to throw up long passes too.
 
 One other thing I realized last night. Unlike WE6 where you could just chuck it long and create a play, if you clear or your GK kicks it long the CPU tends to get possession. It´s erie how this reflects real soccer where most of the team where you try to make long passes deep in your half it just results in more possession for the CPU.
 
 I love the new volley animations as well. They are a beautiful sight.

bphilipb · Post by **bphilipb** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:52 pm

Hugo-
 
 Great post. Makes me realize that games like this are truly special.
 
 To all the other people out there playing...
 
 Did all of you import the roster files with an x-port or do it by hand?
 
 BB

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:23 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-23 12:52, bphilipb wrote:
 Did all of you import the roster files with an x-port or do it by hand?
 BB
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 I did it by hand. I´m not terribly thorough, though. I was doing it at about 1am, so I´m guessing some of the trickier Asian and African names might not be 100% accurate <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_razz.gif">
 
 It really wasn´t nearly as bad as last year, btw. Many more licensed teams means a lot less "typing". I don´t have an Shark-X-Ar-Port thingy, and I don´t have the patience to wait while I mail a memory card out and back LOL

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:31 pm

"I don´t have an Shark-X-Ar-Port thingy, and I don´t have the patience to wait while I mail a memory card out and back LOL"
 
 Well, I do have the patience......someone help a fellow DSP poster out.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:16 pm

Dan, I´d help but like I said, it´s not the most thorough job. I know that I skipped some names here and there in an effort to get it done before passing out on my coffee table. I´m sure you´ll find better offers.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:06 am

OK so I am an idiot. Apparently, in the ML it is OK to be in debt at any time as long as it is not the last week of the ML year. They say in the game that you can´t be in debt at the end of the season, but by that they mean the end of the OFF-season.
 
 Ouch.
 
 So I lost my team. Got the "Game Over" screen. a bit disappointed.
 
 Oh well, to start over again. This time I will be terrfically agressive in the early transfer periods, and then do what I have to do to get above negative points in the off-season. And like a good RPG, as much as I try to re-fashion the team I had just put together, no doubt this one will be an entirely different beast.

jimd · Post by **jimd** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:04 am

Hugo,
 
 Just curious, what star ratings you are using for CPU transfers in your ML? (I think there are three different categories.)
 
 Thanks and good luck in the new season.
 
 Jim D

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:19 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-24 20:04, jimd wrote:
 Hugo,
 
 Just curious, what star ratings you are using for CPU transfers in your ML? (I think there are three different categories.)
 
 Thanks and good luck in the new season.
 
 Jim D
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 Jim:
 
 I set them to 3, 3, and 2. Judging from the definitions in the PES guide, this seemed the way to go for me. Not too tough, not too easy. It is definitely a bit harder to get players this year than last. Last year I could just throw money at guys and they would sign or transfer. Now, some guys just won´t come no matter how obscene my offer is. Still, I have been able to get a few decent players (really mid-level guys, not the top tier by any means), but I´m in major debt now, and still just lost a home game (dammit!).
 
 I think maybe the teamwork issue is a new feature. It definitely takes a while for a player´s teamwork number to get back up after a transfer, and training seems to help some. Still, you see guys breaking the wrong way before a pass, and other things that really look and feel like guys who don´t know each other well. I don´t remember that last year, and I think it´s pretty cool.
 
 I´d be surprised that if you set the levels to:
 
 transfer freq: 2 stars (COM reluctant to transfer),
 
 level of acquired players: 4 or 5 stars (COM team will only accept players with somewhat high ability levels; or 5 is COM team will accept players only with high ability levels)
 
 Acquisition difficulty: 3 stars (COM will apply strict conditions before accpeting a proposal)
 
 that it wouldn´t provide some chalenge to you. For me, I like it a bit easy, as I WANT to build a top-tier team in 3 or 4 seasons. It is a game/fantasy after all.
 
 Normally I hate franchise modes, as they don´t really reflect or even try to distill the cogent aspects of the process in real life (eg. I could go on and on about NFL franchise modes and how they bear no similarity to the real life process). Plus I just don´t like the randomly generated new players, the sometimes biizarre adjustments to player abilities, and the CPU team management behavior. For some reason in the WE games, I love the ML mode. There are SO many players in the game, I really look at it as an RPG type thing in that it is different every time. Plus, getting players in the game makes me more aware of them in real life, too! That is a cool bonus I really like, getting the flavor of players I never heard of, but grow to love since they are on my ML team.
 
 Anyway Jim, crank those difficulties up and give it a shot. With 4 leagues now (the region you are in has 14 in the top and 8 in the 2nd div., the others just have the 14-team top divisions, for a total of 64 teams in the ML), and the more reticent players and teams, plus the new inter-league competitions, who knows?

jimd · Post by **jimd** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:56 pm

Hugo,
 
 Thanks for the input. I´m waiting for my x-port so I can download updated rosters before I start the ML.
 
 Yeah, I don´t want to make it too hard to acquire players, but also love the challenge. I´ve heard/read that it also depends on what team you control (easier to sign a star if you are Man U, rather than if you are West Ham).
 Not sure if that is true.
 
 Really looking forward to starting my ML (and new levels of sleep deprivation!). My strategy this year is to buy inexpensive players with high teamwork ratings. I´m sure that will all change after I start out 0-0-5.
 
 Keep us updated; I always like to see what teams guys are putting together.
 
 Jim D

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:51 pm

As most of you know, I´m new to the whole Konami way of soccer.
 
 I started a league using Fulham (I think they are becoming my favorite team). I won the first game on *** 3-2 on a couple goals by Knight (a tall defender) on set pieces and one by McBride. You really can tell the difference in the air when you´ve got a guy that´s a lot taller. I then went on to lose a game and then I drew the next 3. You really can tell the difference between the teams and players...you really can´t in Fifa.
 
 In the last game I drew, I knew I was screwed. I was up 2-1 against Chelse in the 70th min. when Knight went off with a red card for tackling from behind. He had been my main man, stopping all of the crosses from the wings with his height. What do you know...first cross from a wing after Knight went out...header, goal. s***.
 
 As soon as he went out of the game I just knew I had to protect against the crosses because I don´t have anymore size in the back w/ Bocanegro roaming the middle. I got there a second too late with Petta and the midfielder crossed it to a well marking Boco but the forward went up and got it and put it away.
 
 It really was a great game...just to know that losing one key guy can ruin your day...which it did.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:18 pm

Wow, I played a real head-scratcher last night. I´m playing an Int´l Cup tourney on 3-Star as England as I try to hone my skills before tackling the ML.
 
 My first couple of games are typical: 2-1, 1-0, 1-1 against pretty mediocre competition. (I did a random draw). Then I draw Argentina. I figure that I´m done for. I´ve only played for about a week, Michael Owen is hurt, Heskey is out of form (more than usual, I mean) and I´m just getting by against teams like Uruguay.
 
 Lo and behold, I go out and SPANK Argentina in a match sure to re-ignite old Anglo-Argentine tensions <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_smile.gif">
 
 6-0!!! SIX, VI to NIL!
 
 Look, I´m not that good...I´m not sure what happened! Scholes had a hat-trick and Gerrard 2 assists. I was just drilling shots from the perimiter of the 18-yard box like there was nobody else on the pitch. Very odd.
 
 Of course I drew Brazil for the next game, so I´m sure this will be short-lived excitement.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:30 pm

Rob:
 
 One thing i need to keep reminding myself of is "don´t try to dribble it into the net."
 
 That is to say, i seem to forget how good a shot from outside the box can be. I seem to naturally try to get too close, or make too pretty a play when an open shot for 25yds or a simple cross from the wing is the trick. I also have to remind myslef constantly that moving the ball quickly makes ALL the difference in getting guys open for headers in the box.
 
 And still I can´t seem to score!

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:49 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-26 10:30, hugo wrote:
 Rob:
 
 One thing i need to keep reminding myself of is "don´t try to dribble it into the net."
 
 That is to say, i seem to forget how good a shot from outside the box can be. I seem to naturally try to get too close, or make too pretty a play when an open shot for 25yds or a simple cross from the wing is the trick. I also have to remind myslef constantly that moving the ball quickly makes ALL the difference in getting guys open for headers in the box.
 
 And still I can´t seem to score!
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 I had the same problem, but I got tired of having only a handful of shots to show for my work. Now I have more of a grip and rip attitude. Any CF or MF within reasonable range and with an unobstructed shot is going to fire <IMG SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_smile.gif">
 
 It´s also a function of playing with England. Heskey is the only really heading target for me, so I either have to cross low or work through the middle.
 
 Argentina really played poor defense, too (obviously). They are super aggressive and take themselves out of position A LOT. Gerrard and Scholes chewed them up in the offensive midfield with relatively simple ball-handling that wouldn´t be effective against most teams.