Jumped online last night (PS3) and played a match against Sport73. First off, online match set-up blows as there is no easy way to find one another. We had to basically have one of us set up the match while the other searched for a match with the same criteria and hope that person could get into the match before someone else jumped in. Regardless it worked out and we met up.
Becker vs. Roddick on the hard court at the US Open and all i can say is holy crap was it awesome. A five set marathon that went well into the night. Roddick takes the first set 7-5 and the second 6-2. Becker finds his stride taking the third 6-2. In the fourth Roddick is up 5-2 only to see Becker march back, fighting off two match points, and taking the fourth 7-5. The fifth was no contest as it looked as though Roddick had lost focus and Becker rolled to a 6-2 victory taking the match. A true baseline war as both players sat back and whaled away trying to overpower the other. The nerves, the tension, the fun...all there as they should be in a sports game.
It was easily one of the best one on one sports gaming experiences i've had in a long time. I can't believe i almost let the review jacka**es force me to pass on this one. When it clicks it really is a solid representation of the sport.
Topspin 3 (360)
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sportdan30
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Well after playing it and getting a slight grasp on the controls.
It has some of the worst characteristics that I think most hate in sports games.
First off the controls are sluggish. This is primarily due to the way you have to "preload" your shots. I don't prefer this method, as I would have loved a total R-stick game but I understand where TP3 was headed.
You add the sluggish feel to how the players feel slow, the animations are deliberate and the ball physics are slow as well; and you get a game that plays tennis but doesn't look like tennis. I guess how do you make a game that recreates 140 MPH serves.
I would have taken a game with more speed all around but more error in the shots. Instead of what TP3 tries to do.
After watching wimbledon and wanting to get some tennis in, for me, this game is little more than a rental.
It has some of the worst characteristics that I think most hate in sports games.
First off the controls are sluggish. This is primarily due to the way you have to "preload" your shots. I don't prefer this method, as I would have loved a total R-stick game but I understand where TP3 was headed.
You add the sluggish feel to how the players feel slow, the animations are deliberate and the ball physics are slow as well; and you get a game that plays tennis but doesn't look like tennis. I guess how do you make a game that recreates 140 MPH serves.
I would have taken a game with more speed all around but more error in the shots. Instead of what TP3 tries to do.
After watching wimbledon and wanting to get some tennis in, for me, this game is little more than a rental.
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Created players or tour pros? Maybe we could see who wants in and then have a "draft." Of course I'll go first and take Federer. Thanks:)10spro wrote:Good stuff. Get some playing time now, and let's get a tourney going hopefully.sportdan30 wrote:Boys,
It clicked! It clicked! I finally got it after playing the demo this evening......and I couldn't be happier. I'm heading out later to pick up the game.
Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.
Either way. I guess if you pick created players, the level field would be different as the points will differ among us, so picking up Pros would be the way to go. My concern is more who's playing which system because if I am correct most have the PS3 version because of Nadal including myself, so will see how the interest develops in the next few days.macsomjrr wrote: Created players or tour pros? Maybe we could see who wants in and then have a "draft." Of course I'll go first and take Federer. Thanks:)
This is a terrific game. Hopped online and gave RallyMonkey a good schooling last night. I don't find the controls sluggish at all, and it has certainly 'clicked' for me and I'm able to power shots down the line at will.
A few tips for those getting started:
1. Use subtle movements to position yourself for the ball, your player will LOCK IN once he's in position, and won't move again no matter how much you wiggle the Left stick.
2. Once he's locked in, focus on aiming your shot and the TIMING (most critical component) of your swing. It's sometimes good to aim one way and then switch to the other just before releasing your swing. This causes your player to set up a little different for the shot, confusing your opponent.
3. SWING TIMING is the most important aspect to getting power in your shots. I'll often begin holding my chosen swing button down BEFORE my opponent has even hit the ball. Then get in position, and wait. Swinging when the ball is in your player's "SWEET SPOT" gives you massive power. This spot changes based on the height of the ball and position of your player. So if you're on the run, you're better able to swing LOW at the ball, while stationary you can swing at the top of the bounce.
4. Court surface has a big impact on proper timing. You swing MUCH EARLIER on hard courts than on Grass, since the ball is bouncing/moving faster.
5. Mix up your shots, including shot type and depth, not just left/right.
6. Sound helps. If you've watch Tennis on TV you're probably subconsciously programmed with the sound of hit, bounce, hit (grunt), bounce. Listening to those cues can help you get your timing right.
7. The most important thing is to set your feet. As I said, you're player will LOCK IN. Once he is, let go of the left stick momentarily, then jam it to the location you want to hit the ball. If you release on time, you'll send a powerful shot down the line that will leave you in good position for the volley. As soon as you're out of position, off balance, you're screwed - you can only recover the point if you can get your feet set again.
I can't figure out net play.
Hope this helps.
A few tips for those getting started:
1. Use subtle movements to position yourself for the ball, your player will LOCK IN once he's in position, and won't move again no matter how much you wiggle the Left stick.
2. Once he's locked in, focus on aiming your shot and the TIMING (most critical component) of your swing. It's sometimes good to aim one way and then switch to the other just before releasing your swing. This causes your player to set up a little different for the shot, confusing your opponent.
3. SWING TIMING is the most important aspect to getting power in your shots. I'll often begin holding my chosen swing button down BEFORE my opponent has even hit the ball. Then get in position, and wait. Swinging when the ball is in your player's "SWEET SPOT" gives you massive power. This spot changes based on the height of the ball and position of your player. So if you're on the run, you're better able to swing LOW at the ball, while stationary you can swing at the top of the bounce.
4. Court surface has a big impact on proper timing. You swing MUCH EARLIER on hard courts than on Grass, since the ball is bouncing/moving faster.
5. Mix up your shots, including shot type and depth, not just left/right.
6. Sound helps. If you've watch Tennis on TV you're probably subconsciously programmed with the sound of hit, bounce, hit (grunt), bounce. Listening to those cues can help you get your timing right.
7. The most important thing is to set your feet. As I said, you're player will LOCK IN. Once he is, let go of the left stick momentarily, then jam it to the location you want to hit the ball. If you release on time, you'll send a powerful shot down the line that will leave you in good position for the volley. As soon as you're out of position, off balance, you're screwed - you can only recover the point if you can get your feet set again.
I can't figure out net play.
Hope this helps.
Sport73
"Can't we all just get along? I'll turn this car around RIGHT now!"
"Can't we all just get along? I'll turn this car around RIGHT now!"
I have to agree with JRod. I am sure there is a great game inside and I'm glad you guys are enjoying it, but it certainly doesn't make a great first impression. It doesn't help that the demo is *so* short and they make you sit through a minute before you can play another exhibition. I would possibly consider picking it up when it hits the bargain bin in 2 months. That's not a commentary on the quality...I just don't think it will sell well and is overpriced at $60. PES 2008 is already marked down to $29.99 at Best Buy and this will probably suffer the same fate.JRod wrote:Well after playing it and getting a slight grasp on the controls.
It has some of the worst characteristics that I think most hate in sports games.
First off the controls are sluggish.
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TheTruth
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Well, I have been playing a career and am now rated in the low 60's and am routinely beating Federer and Roddick (360 version). In fact I haven't lost since I hit the 60 mark. Has anyone else had to change the difficulty yet? Does it get outrageously hard?
Anyone have this for the 360 and want to play some online games?
Anyone have this for the 360 and want to play some online games?
[b]Xbox Live Gamertag:[/b] [color=red]HOGZ TheTruth[/color] Wii: 7256 9991 5571 9701
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sportdan30
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Jack,
I wish I could explain it. I rented this game, played the demo a dozen times, and each time the game felt slow and awkward. I had just about given up on it. Well, last night I was just messing around with the controls and it finally clicked. Suddenly, I was able to hit winners down the line, hit cross court with effectiveness, and even hit a few volley winners.
I have a difficult time explaining things, so what I'm about to say might not make much sense nor may it be of any use to those who are still struggling with the controls. First of all, we all know positioning is very important. I've played tennis for over 20 years, so I definitely understand this emphasis. With this game, I still hit awkwardly on some ground strokes, but for the most part, I'm positioned well and the ball goes where I want it to. The key though is to not hold the button down too long. That was my main problem. By holding it too long, you lose the ability to direct your shot.
What I do now is release the button almost right after the ball bounces on my side. Prior to that, I am holding the button down even before my opponent hits it back to me. By releasing the button earlier, you can then use the left stick for directing which way you want to hit the ball. Initially, it might feel like you're fighting with the controls, but eventually it becomes second nature. The game then opens up massively. Instead of playing pong (basically hitting it back and forth in the middle), you can take control of the point by running your opponent back and forth. That's where the strategy of tennis then becomes fun.
With all that said, I know I'm going to struggle on the Junior Circuit. I only played one match last night on Junior, but I already know I'm going to have to change up my strategy. This game forces you to become effective with drop shots, lobs, volleying, etc. On Challenger, you pretty much can defeat your opponents with ground strokes, which feels a little bit like Virtua Tennis. Junior is a whole new kind of challenge. I definitely will need a lot of practice and advice from you guys.
And for the person who said the games feels slow, do yourself a favor and watch the "showroom" on the demo. Remember, the game might feel slow initially, but you're also playing on a lower difficulty and probably haven't grasped the controls yet.
On a side note, I do think the animations of the aces are poorly done. Rather than the opponent making a futile attempt at the ball, they just stand there and let it go right by them. It just looks bad.
Anyways, hope this helped Jack. No doubt Smash Court Tennis 3 will be a great game as well, but I'm quite happy with TS3's attempt at making a more simulated challenging game than Virtua Tennis. It's not for everyone though.
I wish I could explain it. I rented this game, played the demo a dozen times, and each time the game felt slow and awkward. I had just about given up on it. Well, last night I was just messing around with the controls and it finally clicked. Suddenly, I was able to hit winners down the line, hit cross court with effectiveness, and even hit a few volley winners.
I have a difficult time explaining things, so what I'm about to say might not make much sense nor may it be of any use to those who are still struggling with the controls. First of all, we all know positioning is very important. I've played tennis for over 20 years, so I definitely understand this emphasis. With this game, I still hit awkwardly on some ground strokes, but for the most part, I'm positioned well and the ball goes where I want it to. The key though is to not hold the button down too long. That was my main problem. By holding it too long, you lose the ability to direct your shot.
What I do now is release the button almost right after the ball bounces on my side. Prior to that, I am holding the button down even before my opponent hits it back to me. By releasing the button earlier, you can then use the left stick for directing which way you want to hit the ball. Initially, it might feel like you're fighting with the controls, but eventually it becomes second nature. The game then opens up massively. Instead of playing pong (basically hitting it back and forth in the middle), you can take control of the point by running your opponent back and forth. That's where the strategy of tennis then becomes fun.
With all that said, I know I'm going to struggle on the Junior Circuit. I only played one match last night on Junior, but I already know I'm going to have to change up my strategy. This game forces you to become effective with drop shots, lobs, volleying, etc. On Challenger, you pretty much can defeat your opponents with ground strokes, which feels a little bit like Virtua Tennis. Junior is a whole new kind of challenge. I definitely will need a lot of practice and advice from you guys.
And for the person who said the games feels slow, do yourself a favor and watch the "showroom" on the demo. Remember, the game might feel slow initially, but you're also playing on a lower difficulty and probably haven't grasped the controls yet.
On a side note, I do think the animations of the aces are poorly done. Rather than the opponent making a futile attempt at the ball, they just stand there and let it go right by them. It just looks bad.
Anyways, hope this helped Jack. No doubt Smash Court Tennis 3 will be a great game as well, but I'm quite happy with TS3's attempt at making a more simulated challenging game than Virtua Tennis. It's not for everyone though.
Thanks for the tips Dan. One question. If you are able to hold down the button to "power up" your shot before your opponent even hits the ball, wouldn't you just do that all the time? It seems like you could easily get maximum power on the shot all the time then? (assuming you are in correct position). In other words...wouldn't you just start holding down the button right after you released it for your previous shot? I guess the only variable is you are then "locked into" that shot type too soon.sportdan30 wrote:Jack,
What I do now is release the button almost right after the ball bounces on my side. Prior to that, I am holding the button down even before my opponent hits it back to me.
That's what I do. I hit the ball, and as soon as I see the positioning of the opponent, I will decide what shot to hit and hold the button down immediately. If they're running to the left along the baseline, I'll hold a top spin and then position a lower right cross court ripper. The drop shots are nice, but I haven't figured out how to really dump them in right over the net. I hold down and Triangle (or Y when playing on my 360), but it still goes to the edge of the service box. Perhaps using less button, I don't know. Whether you are always hitting maximum power or not depends entirely on your positioning, not so much on the button press. You'll hit some really hard shots that are only a "1 star" in the tennis school simply from being in the right place and releasing on time. It's almost like a baseball game...I release early to pull it, and late to push the ball. It is an "extra" aiming feature, practically.
What I do know is that it feels remarkably good as a tennis "simulator". The thought process I go through for each shot is a lot like a real court. Of course it's not perfect--nothing is. But the smallest things, like having to decide whether to position for a forehand or backhand, make huge differences. Early on, I'd just run to the center like years of VG tennis taught me. A few tennis balls to the chest broke me of that. After spending a ton of time with it, I just can't get over how you can choose to volley and literally pick your shots. Hitting a ball that's tough for my opponent to get to may not be the winner, but simply a set up shot. As he's dancing away trying to reach a slice, I can pretty much guess that his shot will be returned center court, and hold R2 (or RT) and rip a huge winner off to the other side.
There's that whole aspect of tennis that it seems to simulate very well. When you're out of position, it just gets worse. You can feel the point building during a volley, as very rarely will you end up with perfectly positioned shots that are easy to reach, and you have to guess correctly to be in solid position. Amazing game, and it's a shame that it came out so close to NASCAR 09 for me (how's that for a random racing comment). I am torn between N09 and TS constantly, and with NCAA hitting next week, I don't know what I'll do.
But I do know where the "sluggish" comments come from. Especially at first, it's like the guys wouldn't even run. But whatever has happened for me since the beginning, it seems my character hauls ass now and doesn't seem to plod around the court. I can only assume that's from proper positioning and not going nuts on the stick. If I have to crank from one direction to the other, I've probably already guessed wrong and screwed up.
What I do know is that it feels remarkably good as a tennis "simulator". The thought process I go through for each shot is a lot like a real court. Of course it's not perfect--nothing is. But the smallest things, like having to decide whether to position for a forehand or backhand, make huge differences. Early on, I'd just run to the center like years of VG tennis taught me. A few tennis balls to the chest broke me of that. After spending a ton of time with it, I just can't get over how you can choose to volley and literally pick your shots. Hitting a ball that's tough for my opponent to get to may not be the winner, but simply a set up shot. As he's dancing away trying to reach a slice, I can pretty much guess that his shot will be returned center court, and hold R2 (or RT) and rip a huge winner off to the other side.
There's that whole aspect of tennis that it seems to simulate very well. When you're out of position, it just gets worse. You can feel the point building during a volley, as very rarely will you end up with perfectly positioned shots that are easy to reach, and you have to guess correctly to be in solid position. Amazing game, and it's a shame that it came out so close to NASCAR 09 for me (how's that for a random racing comment). I am torn between N09 and TS constantly, and with NCAA hitting next week, I don't know what I'll do.
But I do know where the "sluggish" comments come from. Especially at first, it's like the guys wouldn't even run. But whatever has happened for me since the beginning, it seems my character hauls ass now and doesn't seem to plod around the court. I can only assume that's from proper positioning and not going nuts on the stick. If I have to crank from one direction to the other, I've probably already guessed wrong and screwed up.
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ScoopBrady
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I think that's what is bothering me the most about this game. One thing I like about tennis is the split-second decision making that needs to go into each shot based upon your opponents last shot. Holding down the button before they have even made their shot makes it a guessing game more akin to an at-bat in baseball rather than a reaction game like it's supposed to be. Things started to click control-wise for me but I ended up finding out that I still didn't like how it played. Maybe Smashcourt will be more my cup of tea.Sport73 wrote: 3. SWING TIMING is the most important aspect to getting power in your shots. I'll often begin holding my chosen swing button down BEFORE my opponent has even hit the ball. Then get in position, and wait. Swinging when the ball is in your player's "SWEET SPOT" gives you massive power. This spot changes based on the height of the ball and position of your player. So if you're on the run, you're better able to swing LOW at the ball, while stationary you can swing at the top of the bounce.
I am a patient boy.
I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait.
My time is water down a drain.
I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait.
My time is water down a drain.
Thats a great point. I can see getting into position right after making your shot, but pressing the button to power up your shot before the other player even hits the ball makes no "real world" sense. Tennis IS about split second decision making, but its also about preparation.ScoopBrady wrote:I think that's what is bothering me the most about this game. One thing I like about tennis is the split-second decision making that needs to go into each shot based upon your opponents last shot. Holding down the button before they have even made their shot makes it a guessing game more akin to an at-bat in baseball rather than a reaction game like it's supposed to be. Things started to click control-wise for me but I ended up finding out that I still didn't like how it played. Maybe Smashcourt will be more my cup of tea.Sport73 wrote: 3. SWING TIMING is the most important aspect to getting power in your shots. I'll often begin holding my chosen swing button down BEFORE my opponent has even hit the ball. Then get in position, and wait. Swinging when the ball is in your player's "SWEET SPOT" gives you massive power. This spot changes based on the height of the ball and position of your player. So if you're on the run, you're better able to swing LOW at the ball, while stationary you can swing at the top of the bounce.
What's the alternative? Perhaps using the RT as a power modifier (not like it's used now as just a power shot), where fully off is an easy dink, and fully squeezed is as hard as your character can hit it, maybe?
As it stands, it's about the only way they could really control a power choice. It might not make sense in "real world" terms, but in the real world you think it and then react a split second later. How you can recreate that perfectly with 6 buttons, a couple triggers, and a couple of sticks is almost impossible unless they managed to use the R stick exclusively as the swing, and the speed and angle you swing it at controls the shot entirely.
As it stands, it's about the only way they could really control a power choice. It might not make sense in "real world" terms, but in the real world you think it and then react a split second later. How you can recreate that perfectly with 6 buttons, a couple triggers, and a couple of sticks is almost impossible unless they managed to use the R stick exclusively as the swing, and the speed and angle you swing it at controls the shot entirely.
I said it earlier in this thread and the area that 2K fails to communicate to the gamers is in the execution department. In a real world you would bring the racquet back in preparation for your shot right? So think pressing the face button of your choice as bringing your racquet back before your swing. As you're about to whack the ball, release.JackB1 wrote:Thats a great point. I can see getting into position right after making your shot, but pressing the button to power up your shot before the other player even hits the ball makes no "real world" sense. Tennis IS about split second decision making, but its also about preparation.ScoopBrady wrote:I think that's what is bothering me the most about this game. One thing I like about tennis is the split-second decision making that needs to go into each shot based upon your opponents last shot. Holding down the button before they have even made their shot makes it a guessing game more akin to an at-bat in baseball rather than a reaction game like it's supposed to be. Things started to click control-wise for me but I ended up finding out that I still didn't like how it played. Maybe Smashcourt will be more my cup of tea.Sport73 wrote: 3. SWING TIMING is the most important aspect to getting power in your shots. I'll often begin holding my chosen swing button down BEFORE my opponent has even hit the ball. Then get in position, and wait. Swinging when the ball is in your player's "SWEET SPOT" gives you massive power. This spot changes based on the height of the ball and position of your player. So if you're on the run, you're better able to swing LOW at the ball, while stationary you can swing at the top of the bounce.
However unlike real life knowing which button to press maybe is the problem for many because you just don't know what the opponent is going to hit at you. In real life I would know what my opponent is hitting by reading the face of his racquet, whether it's open or close, therefore I react accordingly. In this game you don't have that luxury, so many gamers struggle as to which button to hold, never mind remembering to be in a correct sweepspot position and so on.
I wouldn't worry too much about using the shoulder buttons yet if you're yet to master the face buttons and moving your player. Things will come with practice.
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ScoopBrady
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Actually, no I wouldn't bring my racquet back in preperation for my shot before my opponent has even hit the ball. That is not natural at all. You bring back the racquet and then hit the ball in a fluid motion not hold the racquet back and wait for the ball to come to you before you swing.10spro wrote:In a real world you would bring the racquet back in preparation for your shot right? So think pressing the face button of your choice as bringing your racquet back before your swing. As you're about to whack the ball, release.
There's many things they could have done to give the player a quick way of applying less or more power to a shot.
1. NHL 07-08 style by making the right analog stick the racket stick. The faster you push up the harder your shot.
2. Button modifier ala NHL 2k series. Why not have one of the trigger buttons add more power to the shot? Left trigger plus swing button = power shot. Left bumper plus swing button = soft shot. Swing button alone = normal shot.
3. Tap, press, double-tap ala old FIFA games. Tap the button for a soft shot, press the button for a normal shot, double-tap the button for more power.
I enjoy tennis games and used to enjoy playing tennis in my younger days. My initial impressions from the demo were not that favorable. I wanted to give the game a fair shot so I went to the school mode and learned the controls better. Things started to click and I started having fun with the game, that is until I started paying attention to how the whole system was working. The game does some things very well but I can't overlook this gameplay design decision.
I am a patient boy.
I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait.
My time is water down a drain.
I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait.
My time is water down a drain.
Anyone ever play the old Vs. arcade Tennis game?
Had very simplistic graphics, like the original RBI Baseball game which used the same system.
But the feel of the controls was really good and you could move all over the court and just hit the ball back and forth and it feels more fluid.
You want to represent the different kinds of shots and control which tennis players have but at the same time, the control scheme could get in the way of the fluidity of the game.
Wow, if a Wii tennis game could translate the nuances of every swing motion, as well as a player trying to swing around and hit forehands (as Federer tried to do) whenever you wanted, that could make Wii a revolutionary product, rather than a gimmick.
Had very simplistic graphics, like the original RBI Baseball game which used the same system.
But the feel of the controls was really good and you could move all over the court and just hit the ball back and forth and it feels more fluid.
You want to represent the different kinds of shots and control which tennis players have but at the same time, the control scheme could get in the way of the fluidity of the game.
Wow, if a Wii tennis game could translate the nuances of every swing motion, as well as a player trying to swing around and hit forehands (as Federer tried to do) whenever you wanted, that could make Wii a revolutionary product, rather than a gimmick.
At the moment that my opponnent hits a shot, my left hand is always holding the throat of my racquet in preparation for my swing. This holding pattern is the prerequisite prior to the preparation of the racquet and I think that's what 2K is trying to implement here although in an unnatural way.ScoopBrady wrote:Actually, no I wouldn't bring my racquet back in preperation for my shot before my opponent has even hit the ball. That is not natural at all.10spro wrote:In a real world you would bring the racquet back in preparation for your shot right? So think pressing the face button of your choice as bringing your racquet back before your swing. As you're about to whack the ball, release.
I just think you shouldn't be able to "power up" you swing until a few seconds before you hit it. If you are running crosscourt and barely are able to reach the ball, obviously you wont get much power on it. But in this game, you can be powered up already.TCrouch wrote:What's the alternative? Perhaps using the RT as a power modifier (not like it's used now as just a power shot), where fully off is an easy dink, and fully squeezed is as hard as your character can hit it, maybe?
As it stands, it's about the only way they could really control a power choice. It might not make sense in "real world" terms, but in the real world you think it and then react a split second later. How you can recreate that perfectly with 6 buttons, a couple triggers, and a couple of sticks is almost impossible unless they managed to use the R stick exclusively as the swing, and the speed and angle you swing it at controls the shot entirely.
I agree it's hard to replicate on a controller and I think they did a pretty good job with this game.