OT- I'm just amazed it ever had to come to this...

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:50 pm

Jared wrote: She can't swallow on her own. So if someone gave her water, she'd die. I think an arrest would be a good thing here.

Yeah, she really dodged a bullet there.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:07 pm

tealboy03 wrote:Update: Death wins...here's hoping that the docs know what they're talking about, and that she hasn't suffered. They're not going to let her eat, drink, and live, no matter what. Insanity has prevailed...

God rest her soul...

1. Death has always won (with the exception of one person for some).

2. Her soul (finally) resting is the whole point of this.

3. To hell with Jeb Bush and his hypocritical prisoner-torturing, collateral-damage causing, retard-executing, condemned-woman-mocking brother. Party of life my ass. The Pharisees ride again.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:24 pm

sf_z wrote:Iraqi civilians don't vote in Florida

HAH! Great point, and so true.

Take care,
PK

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:52 pm

pk500 wrote: It's just ironic that the party and President that supposedly "respects all human life" have been the masterminds behind a conflict that has claimed thousands of civilian lives in Iraq.
Rant off.

Take care,
PK

(Hmm, to threadjack or not to threadjack? s***, this thread has had 50 different subjects covered alread. What the hell?)...

That 100,000 figure was discredited about as thoroughly as anything this side of the shround of Turin.

What's really ironic that alleged humanitarians can spit fire all day at the casualties in Iraq but ignore the casualties that would've been incurred by innocent Iraqis were they still under Saddam's thumb, as well as the fact that a stable, peaceful Mideast will save exponentially more lives and make the US more far more secure.

To paraphrase Lincoln, give me a general (or a government in this case) that understands the arithmetic.

maddoc1979 · Post by **maddoc1979** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:02 pm

pk500 wrote: It's just ironic that the party and President that supposedly "respects all human life" have been the masterminds behind a conflict that has claimed thousands of civilian lives in Iraq.

Interesting also that Gov. George Bush passed a law in Texas that allowed life support to be removed from a 6 month old child against the wishes of his parents. Search for "Sun Hudson" and you'll get the story.

Doc

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:20 pm

sf_z wrote:
the fact that a stable, peaceful Mideast will save exponentially more lives and make the US more far more secure
This is a fact.

What isn't a fact is whether the current US policy brings us closer to a stable, peaceful Mideast. The historical track record isn't very good.

Granted. Evaluating the long-term impact of the Bush administration's policies in the Mideast right now is the equivalent of evaluating an NFL draft class before they play a game.

That said, I can't recall any point in my lifetime with as many favorable events in that region as we've seen in the last 12 months. The Camp David accords might be the only comparable event, but didn't have the breadth of recent events.

We shall see, though.

jujuhound76 · Post by **jujuhound76** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:46 pm

maddoc1979 wrote:
pk500 wrote: It's just ironic that the party and President that supposedly "respects all human life" have been the masterminds behind a conflict that has claimed thousands of civilian lives in Iraq.
Interesting also that Gov. George Bush passed a law in Texas that allowed life support to be removed from a 6 month old child against the wishes of his parents. Search for "Sun Hudson" and you'll get the story.

Doc

Doc,

While you said nothing false in that statement, it was very misleading. It sounds as if GW drew up a bill, passed it through the state legislature and signed it into law just so a child could die. In reality, Bush signed a bill passed by the legislature in 1999 called the Texas Futile Care Law (as I'm sure you well know, but others probably don't). Sun Hudson was removed from life support a week or two ago, six years after Bush's bill passed. The law was intended to help prevent hospitals from removing life support against the will of patients' families. Before the law was passed, hospitals were removing life support on only 72 hours notice. Now, the family has ten days to find a caregiver that will take the patient. BTW, Sun was unable to breathe, eat or drink on his own.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:50 pm

jujuhound76 wrote:
maddoc1979 wrote:
pk500 wrote: It's just ironic that the party and President that supposedly "respects all human life" have been the masterminds behind a conflict that has claimed thousands of civilian lives in Iraq.
Interesting also that Gov. George Bush passed a law in Texas that allowed life support to be removed from a 6 month old child against the wishes of his parents. Search for "Sun Hudson" and you'll get the story.

Doc
Doc,

While you said nothing false in that statement, it was very misleading. It sounds as if GW drew up a bill, passed it through the state legislature and signed it into law just so a child could die. In reality, Bush signed a bill passed by the legislature in 1999 called the Texas Futile Care Law (as I'm sure you well know, but others probably don't). Sun Hudson was removed from life support a week or two ago, six years after Bush's bill passed. The law was intended to help prevent hospitals from removing life support against the will of patients' families. Before the law was passed, hospitals were removing life support on only 72 hours notice. Now, the family has ten days to find a caregiver that will take the patient. BTW, Sun was unable to breathe, eat or drink on his own.

Thanks JuJuhound for posting that. I also felt Doc's statement was very misleading based on the articles I read after a quick Google search.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:52 pm

RobVarak wrote:
pk500 wrote: It's just ironic that the party and President that supposedly "respects all human life" have been the masterminds behind a conflict that has claimed thousands of civilian lives in Iraq.
Rant off.

Take care,
PK
(Hmm, to threadjack or not to threadjack? s***, this thread has had 50 different subjects covered alread. What the hell?)...

That 100,000 figure was discredited about as thoroughly as anything this side of the shround of Turin.

What's really ironic that alleged humanitarians can spit fire all day at the casualties in Iraq but ignore the casualties that would've been incurred by innocent Iraqis were they still under Saddam's thumb, as well as the fact that a stable, peaceful Mideast will save exponentially more lives and make the US more far more secure.

To paraphrase Lincoln, give me a general (or a government in this case) that understands the arithmetic.

Rob:

Who cares if it's 10 or 100,000? Bottom line is, our "pro-life" President started a war that has killed tens of thousands. And as Z said, our track record in Mideast stability matters isn't spotless.

I still see the irony of Dubya in this case.

Take care,
PK

maddoc1979 · Post by **maddoc1979** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:53 pm

Sorry to be misleading, but that was my point. In cases such as this, it's VERY easy to twist the information in whatever way you want. The biggest problem in these cases is that everyone has an opinion, but we're all basing our opinions on a sliver of information. The only people that have all the facts are those directly involved in the case...doctors, parents, husband, judges, and lawyers.

Sun Hudson was a sad case because he was born with a genetic disorder and didn't have a chance...there was literally nothing that could be done to save his life. His life would simply be prolonged with the use of artifical measures. I just wish that the parents would have had a chance to properly say goodbye to their child. There are plenty of cases that I've dealt with where there was no hope for the patient and the family chose to maintain life support for a few more days to allow other family members to arrive from around the country, to set up funeral plans, and to come to terms with the situation. My feeling is that with the law Bush signed, you can easily shortchange the family of a dying patient this opportunity because you're in a hurry to get him or her out of the hospital and free up another bed. In most cases like this, it's strictly a money issue, and that's just plain wrong.

Doc

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:06 am

pk500 wrote:
RobVarak wrote:
pk500 wrote: It's just ironic that the party and President that supposedly "respects all human life" have been the masterminds behind a conflict that has claimed thousands of civilian lives in Iraq.
Rant off.

Take care,
PK
(Hmm, to threadjack or not to threadjack? s***, this thread has had 50 different subjects covered alread. What the hell?)...

That 100,000 figure was discredited about as thoroughly as anything this side of the shround of Turin.

What's really ironic that alleged humanitarians can spit fire all day at the casualties in Iraq but ignore the casualties that would've been incurred by innocent Iraqis were they still under Saddam's thumb, as well as the fact that a stable, peaceful Mideast will save exponentially more lives and make the US more far more secure.

To paraphrase Lincoln, give me a general (or a government in this case) that understands the arithmetic.
Rob:

Who cares if it's 10 or 100,000? Bottom line is, our "pro-life" President started a war that has killed tens of thousands. And as Z said, our track record in Mideast stability matters isn't spotless.

I still see the irony of Dubya in this case.

Take care,
PK

I've found the real "20th hijacker"...it's PK!!! He's not interested in planes, though-he's happy with post threads...

Man, Paul, sometimes you're hard to figure. One minute, the voice of reason, the next the total absence of such... of course, I'm sure the feelin' is mutual...

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:30 pm

Hey, Jared:

Yesterday when I brought up the Nazis killing handicapped children, I wasn't doing so just to be doing it. I read the following news story, and that's where it came from:

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonS ... 5-sun.html

Just FYI...