MVP: Is low-and-away pitch this year's lefty bug?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:38 pm

Boys:

I'm ready to pull the trigger on buying MVP 2005, but the growing chorus of posts here and elsewhere about the low-and-away pitch being a "money" pitch are troubling me.

If the AI doesn't adjust to low-and-away pitches and they truly are money pitches, then I'm not sure I want MVP. I can't stand money sh*t like that.

So, are low-and-away pitches pure money from your experience with MVP 2005?

Thanks,
PK

snate · Post by **snate** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:46 pm

I tried it last night and lost 11-0 to the Angels on Allstar. I have to admit that I missed the meter quite a bit. I jacked it up to -25 and was having a tough time hitting it. Bengie Molina did hit a HR off me on a good pitch low and away. After the game was over I realized that I was sapping all the fun out of it. I think Web hinted at the point that low and away is probably the most effective quadrant in real baseball too so I do not think there is anything to worry about.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:48 pm

How about against other humans or when the CPU throws low and away? Can human hitters do anything with low and away pitches? Does that ruin online games?

marino · Post by **marino** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:48 pm

Yes and it doesn't matter what level you play and what slider adjustments you can use to help the cpu.

They just can't hit or adjust to your pitching style.I tried this on 2k5 and I got murdered.I also tried all pitches on 2k5(inside, outside,high.low)and the cpu adjust to what I am trying to do.

MVP Is a bust for me this year.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:48 pm

I'm not seeing it. I've given up dingers low and away, I'm sure of it.

I hate this kind of "testing." It's like people who call the same play over and over again in football, then complain the CPU doesn't adjust. Yes, it would be nice if the CPU adjusts. But if you call the same play over and over again, you're not playing football.

Keep in mind, what I'm talking about is different than a money play that works all the time. That's a problem.

If the CPU in MVP could never hit low and away pitches, then it would be a bug. That was indeed what the lefty problem was last year -- it almost never happened.

However, I have seen the CPU nail me there. If I hit a pitch perfectly or close to perfect, is that zone effective? Yes. But low and away is pretty effective in real life. If I pitch like pitcher instead of like someone trying to break a game, does the CPU hit? Yes.

I was even looking for this last night after web posted it and I didn't see it.

Just my two cents.

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:49 pm

PK

I tried to throw nothing but low and away pitches last night and the CPU seemed to adjust after about the second inning. I am not saying that low and away is not a money pitch, but in the game I played last night it does not seem like a big problem. Of course, my pitching may not be as good as some others on this board. I want to test this more though.

HipE · Post by **HipE** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:49 pm

After 60+ games played, I haven't noticed it. That doesn't mean that it isn't very effective, just that it never stuck out to me. It seems to me I've had about every location of pitch hit hard at one time or another. Even if it is very effective, I will just continue to pitch the way I always have, which is to mix up my speed and location for each batter.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:50 pm

From my experience (about 16 games) with MVP I have never noticed it to be a problem. I am sure I've seen the CPU belt out hits on low and away pitches. I know they don't swing at all of them.

I recall seeing a post yesterday that said someone did a test by always pitching low and the CPU never adjusted for it. Well, I did my own test with 2k5 last night. I used the Nationals (Livan pitching) against the Red Sox. EVERY pitch I threw was aimed at the low inside or low outside of the plate. I ran Livan down to fumes in the 8th before finally relieving him. He did give up 3 HRs, but 2 of them were after his energy was in the red and began losing control. The CPU never seemed to catch on, and I gave up about 9-10 hits, which is normal for me in 2k5. I'm not bashing 2k5, but I just wanted to put this into perspective. I don't want MVP sinlged out for something that works the same way in 2k5.

I haven't been to OS the past few days, so I'll have to go back there and see what the talk is about this low and outside problem.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:51 pm

Missing the meter is by far the most important factor in whether or not you are going to get knocked around. If you miss the meter low and away you'll still get knocked...just not as much as if you miss it in other areas. So why move to other areas?

Hint? I think I came out and said it!

I just wish that the game punished you more for staying in that zone. But I agree with snate, it's not *fun* to pitch that way. I had to force myself to do it all game once, and I'll never do it again. It is effective, though.

And PK, IMO the lefty glitch was far worse.

HouOilers · Post by **HouOilers** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:53 pm

pk500 wrote:Boys:

I'm ready to pull the trigger on buying MVP 2005, but the growing chorus of posts here and elsewhere about the low-and-away pitch being a "money" pitch are troubling me.

If the AI doesn't adjust to low-and-away pitches and they truly are money pitches, then I'm not sure I want MVP. I can't stand money sh*t like that.

So, are low-and-away pitches pure money from your experience with MVP 2005?

Thanks,
PK

No problems with low and away. I've been able to hit them and so has the cpu. I haven't looked at the posts about this but it sounds like maybe low and away pitching works too well with the pitching aides on? The best test would be to try them with everything off.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:57 pm

Brando70 wrote:I'm not seeing it. I've given up dingers low and away, I'm sure of it.

I hate this kind of "testing." It's like people who call the same play over and over again in football, then complain the CPU doesn't adjust. Yes, it would be nice if the CPU adjusts. But if you call the same play over and over again, you're not playing football.

Keep in mind, what I'm talking about is different than a money play that works all the time. That's a problem.

If the CPU in MVP could never hit low and away pitches, then it would be a bug. That was indeed what the lefty problem was last year -- it almost never happened.

However, I have seen the CPU nail me there. If I hit a pitch perfectly or close to perfect, is that zone effective? Yes. But low and away is pretty effective in real life. If I pitch like pitcher instead of like someone trying to break a game, does the CPU hit? Yes.

I was even looking for this last night after web posted it and I didn't see it.

Just my two cents.

Ditto. The CPU has hit me in every zone. I would never dream of throwing the same pitch every time so it is a non-issue for me. Will I go to low and away in a critical situation? Probably, but I would have anyway and I'm not good enough on the meter to not give up hits down there.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:11 pm

I'm 20 games into my dynasty and I can say low and away is definitely not the spot you want to pitch to David Ortiz.

I'm not the kind of player who would test something like this but I can honestly say that I don't think down and away is a money pitch. "Down and away" and "up and in" are supposed to be the 2 most effective spots to pitch hitters. Glavine and Jimmy Key come to mind as two pitchers who make/made a living throwing almost exlusively to the outer half of the plate at the knees.

marino · Post by **marino** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:13 pm

I was playing with the cursor on so maybe I was too accurate with my pitches.

You know what I will play a game tonight with cursor off and I will just pitch like I normally would and see what happens.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:15 pm

Low and Away is not last year's lefty bug.

1. You can controll where YOU pitch
2. The computer does not pitch to you low and away all game long
3. IF you live by the rule "only play people online you know" then you have nothing to worry about.

Last year I couldn't control the fact that Walker, Helton and Burnitz were all lefties. I was fooked from the get go. Nothing I could do.

There is no way this so-called "low and away glitch" should even be considered in the same catagory as the lefty bug.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:22 pm

Man, I hate it when people look for a reason to find fault with a game (not you PK, but whomever started this whole crying wolf issue). I just searched through the first 5 pages of MVP posts at OS a found nada about this. As immature as some of the population can be over there, there are enough posters that if it was an issue a number of people over there would be posting about it.

PK, I wouldn't worry about it. I wasn't even looking to buy MVP this year, but it has converted me. I am already a month into my dynasty. It has overtaken 2k5 (even post-passed ball bug) in my Xbox for playtime.

Here's a deal for you: You loosen up your a$$ cheeks enough to let $25 out for MVP and I'll do the same for WE8

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:29 pm

matthewk wrote:Man, I hate it when people look for a reason to find fault with a game (not you PK, but whomever started this whole crying wolf issue).

I disagree. I think those people are bringing up a good point about a legit flaw in the game. Can anyone really dispute that if you pitch the entire game low and away that you will have less success than moving around? That shouldn't happen. However, I don't think it will ruin the game for many as you can get hit when you pitch out there.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:32 pm

I'm not trying to start sh*t or point out a flaw in a game that I'll never buy here, as I'm probably going to get MVP.

But if the low-and-away pitch was money all the time, then hell yeah, I think that's information that all baseball gamers should know.

Sorry if I stirred the pot, but the question was asked with complete sincerity.

MattK: You might have a deal with your offer, so get your wallet ready to buy WE!

Take care,
PK

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:13 pm

I was just messing around last night on All-Star and I was getting drilled just throwing low and away. I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:14 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
matthewk wrote:Man, I hate it when people look for a reason to find fault with a game (not you PK, but whomever started this whole crying wolf issue).
I disagree. I think those people are bringing up a good point about a legit flaw in the game. Can anyone really dispute that if you pitch the entire game low and away that you will have less success than moving around? That shouldn't happen. However, I don't think it will ruin the game for many as you can get hit when you pitch out there.

I agree, no harm in bringing it up. I sounded a little harsh in the post above, didn't mean to be (I'm cranky because it was 70 degrees on Sunday and it f***in snowed today).

But my rule of thumb for a game is, if I play it realistically, do I get realistic results. With MVP, I'd say you do most of the time.

Also, in terms of online play, you can definitely hit low and away, especially if you're sitting on it. I am certain I would adjust

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:22 pm

matthewk wrote:Man, I hate it when people look for a reason to find fault with a game (not you PK, but whomever started this whole crying wolf issue). I just searched through the first 5 pages of MVP posts at OS a found nada about this.

Okay, look. I'll get a little defensive about this, since I'm sure i have posted the most observations about this subject. I'm not on an anti-ea crusade, and I'm not looking to find fault with the game. I never went along with the ‘EA boycott.’ Last year I believe I was the first to post the lefty glitch on this forum. Bill Abner posted a couple of times in response that he didn't see it, and Scoop Brady was calling me a rabid anti-EA conspirator/insurgent. I thought then that generalized, baseless accusations don’t do anyone good, and I still think that now.

I never said that this problem approached the level of the lefty bug. That escalation has taken on a life of its own. All I'm saying about the issue is what I've said above...if you miss low and away, you will get punished less there than in other zones. Add to that the fact that there is really no reason to switch zones, because the CPU doesn't adapt, and I just feel the reward for pitching down and away is too great. I'd rather pitch down and away into a hot zone than up and in to a cold zone, and I think that makes the pitching system less than ideal.

I'm not calling it a gamekiller, and again, I still enjoy playing the game. Its effect will matter more to some than others, no doubt.

Granatofan · Post by **Granatofan** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:26 pm

I'm a low and away pitcher. You are supposed to do that. That is generally the most effective zone for pitching in real life. A pitcher only comes inside if he has to or if it is in his interest.

That being said. I never get away with it after the second inning in MVP. Hit the meter or not I start getting knocked around pretty good.

I have seen the AI adjust. I've seen them move to crowd the plate and then I try to brush them back and have seen them move off the plate again. I have seen this, but not as much as I'd like. I don't think the AI needs to move because it can make good contact in any zone.

If anything I have been disappointed that low and away isn't as effective as it should be. I think maybe the developers compensated for the ease of hitting the meter by allowing the AI to make good contact anywhere.

Now if you want to see effective low and away pitching go back to ESPN 2k4. Low and away was gold in that game.

That is my experience,

Ted

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:49 pm

I suppose I'll just have to chalk up the computer doing far worse offensively in the ten games or so since I started becoming aware of the effectiveness of that pitch zone, then, as coincidence.

Could happen.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:58 pm

webdanzer wrote:All I'm saying about the issue is what I've said above...if you miss low and away, you will get punished less there than in other zones.

And you know what...that is probably true in real life as well. Like others have said, pitchers make a living on the outside half of the plate, low in the zone. How many years did I watch Tommy Glavine do that in Atlanta?

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:02 pm

I posted before that messing with the pitch control and meter difficulty sliders seemed to effect the game results in strange ways for both the CPU and human. I honestly feel that there is something goofy going on. I have started two Phillies dynasties and they have both started very similarly. High scoring games vs. The Nationals and then 6 straight low scoring games vs. The Cardinals and Marlins.

Web, do you find this is still an issue on default All-Star? Is it possible that the -50 pitch control is backwards or is somehow screwing up the CPU batter?

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:04 pm

Well, I just had to test this. All-Star default. Hell, I even left the strike zone and cursor on to make sure I was hitting the spot.

I was a little worried at first. Using Brad Penny at St. Louis I held them scoreless for 3 innings. They did have about 5 hits though, including a double. With the default pitch meter I was hitting the sweet spot about 80% of the time.

The second and third time through the lineup they friggin' unloaded on me. I quit when it was 10-0 in the 5th. I gave up 4 homeruns. Two were on "perfect" pitches.

Sure, it's only one game. But I'm glad I tried it out just for peace of mind.

Digital Sportspage

MVP: Is low-and-away pitch this year's lefty bug?

MVP: Is low-and-away pitch this year's lefty bug?

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