Hall of Fame 2005

[davet010]

Much as I detest the earnest squeaky-clean bullshit of Steve Young, I wish I could be in the studio when he walks up to Michael Irvin and screams down his ear..

"spin on that, you f**king over-rated loudmouthed gobshite..rot in hell".

That's would I'd be saying..and I hope Irvin never gets in, there are a raft of better players who will never get there becaue they didn't spend so much time spouting off about themselves.

[Kazuya]

Much as I detest the earnest squeaky-clean bulls*** of Steve Young, I wish I could be in the studio when he walks up to Michael Irvin and screams down his ear..

"spin on that, you f**king over-rated loudmouthed gobs***e..rot in hell".

That's would I'd be saying..and I hope Irvin never gets in, there are a raft of better players who will never get there becaue they didn't spend so much time spouting off about themselves.

Irvin is almost certainly going to be in the HOF. He's one of the most prolific receivers ever, on the field it's a no-brainer. It's disappointing that he didn't get in on the first ballot, but frankly I'm willing to accept him not getting in right away for his off the field antics. There should be some division for the guys who are great on and off the field.

[Sully]

Much as I detest the earnest squeaky-clean bulls*** of Steve Young, I wish I could be in the studio when he walks up to Michael Irvin and screams down his ear..

"spin on that, you f**king over-rated loudmouthed gobs***e..rot in hell".

That's would I'd be saying..and I hope Irvin never gets in, there are a raft of better players who will never get there becaue they didn't spend so much time spouting off about themselves.

Irvin is almost certainly going to be in the HOF. He's one of the most prolific receivers ever, on the field it's a no-brainer. It's disappointing that he didn't get in on the first ballot, but frankly I'm willing to accept him not getting in right away for his off the field antics. There should be some division for the guys who are great on and off the field.

Irvin will make it in, he was one the best WR's in his era and a main component of 3 Cowboys Super Bowl teams. However, his career stats aren't overwhelming, and I thought all along that he was a borderline first ballot HOFer. IMO, Art Monk should enter the Hall before Michael Irvin does.

[skinsfan]

Amen to Monk getting in.He won 3 SB's like Irvin and it's assumed Irvin gets in, as well he should. Joe Jacoby and Russ Grimm need to make it,as well.

[Kazuya]

Irvin will make it in, he was one the best WR's in his era and a main component of 3 Cowboys Super Bowl teams. However, his career stats aren't overwhelming, and I thought all along that he was a borderline first ballot HOFer. IMO, Art Monk should enter the Hall before Michael Irvin does.

Actually, his numbers *were* overwhelming. He only played 159 games due to injuries and the premature ending of his career. Charlie Joiner, who is tied on the all-time list with Irvin with 750 catches, needed *80* more games to get the same number. Irvin also had a 15.9 yard per catch, which was surpassed only by a few in the history of the game over a career. He was one of the most prolific receivers ever, and he would be even higher on the list if not for missing nearly 2 full seasons sue to injury in addition to retiring early. Having said that, he still should be what he is: borderline first ballot. Automatic first ballot receivers should be guys like Rice and (if he keeps it up and can ever win anything) Marvin Harrison.
Monk should also easily be a HOF, on catches alone (not to mention just being a high quality receiver for forever) but his case will be hurt untill Irvin gets in. Monk's case is not nearly as strong as Irvin's.

[pk500]

As much as I hate the Crackwagon (Cowboys), I agree with Kaz 100 percent on Irvin. The guy was the most feared receiver in the NFL who wasn't named Rice during his heyday.

I do object to the premise with Harrison that he has to win something to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. There are some superb wide receivers -- Charlie Joiner and Steve Largent come to mind -- who never won the big one.

Or take my boy Jim Kelly. Lost four straight Super Bowls. Does that make him less of a quarterback than Jim Plunkett, who won two Super Bowls but threw for 10,000 fewer yards and 73 fewer touchdowns than Kelly in only three fewer games?

Nyet.

As far as I'm concerned, there are two kinds of first-ballot Hall of Famers. Those with big numbers who were massive in the big games and won them. Someone like Montana. And then there are those who never won the big game but put up such massive numbers that they're impossible to ignore. Someone like Marino.

Take Peyton Manning. I don't care if he never wins a Super Bowl -- he'll be a first-ballot Hall of Famer if he keeps hanging up the numbers of the past two seasons for a few more years.

And for a talking point, let's say Tom Brady pulled a Jim Brown and retired and went Hollywood after a New England victory with him as MVP on Sunday. Would he be a first-ballot Hall of Famer? Three Super Bowl victories, three Super Bowl MVPs, unbeaten during the postseason in his career but nowhere near the numbers of guys like Elway, Montana or Marino.

What do you cats think?

Take care,
PK

[ScoopBrady]

That's an interesting point PK. I think if he left on his own it would take a while for him to get into the HOF if he ever did. If his career ended from an injury I think he would have a much easier time getting in.

[JRod]

Let's say Brady would do that. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in Hawaii but...

Wouldn't then that open the door for guys like Terrel Davis. Its all speculation of course.

[pk500]

Let's say Brady would do that. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in Hawaii but...

Wouldn't then that open the door for guys like Terrel Davis. Its all speculation of course.

Another very good point, especially since Davis' career ended early due to injury.

It's all good hot stove discussion, for sure!

Take care,
PK

[JRod]

One thing though about the NFL HoF and others is that the controversy surrounding HoF and say Cooperstown doesn't appear to exist to fans. I don't know how the NFL nominates its inductees but year after year goes by and its just seems effortless. Yet every time around baseball HOF nominations we get a who's who of what players should be in the hall excluding Rose. I'm thinking Goose Gossage for example.

Take Terrell Davis his case isn't easy by any measure yet there's no big contreversy. He might get in but definately not as a first time nomination. But if TD was trying to get into Cooperstown, you would have to say that there's no chance in hell that he's getting in.

My point of all this is that the NFL's HOF for whatever reason just seems to capure the spirit and history of the NFL but leaves the major controversies at the door. Is that testament to the league itself, or maybe all the controversies are just outside the Colorado region? We have Elway and sure I'd like to see TD but I know that the NFL likes to have a bigger resume before they let guys in.

Anyway just to add something else to the fire.

[azmark]

So should Aikman be in HOF? I know...Huge arguements against, but he was a winner in playoffs. Very quite qb who came through when needed..hmm..kind of like Brady? Not one of the best...but knew how to win

[Kazuya]

So should Aikman be in HOF? I know...Huge arguements against, but he was a winner in playoffs. Very quite qb who came through when needed..hmm..kind of like Brady? Not one of the best...but knew how to win

Oh, he's going to go in with a bullet. His numbers were actually probably better than you think, and I think QB's get more mileage out of Super Bowls than any other position. But yeah, he wasn't statistically overwhelming at all, and once the Cowboys started to fall off, Aikman wasn't able to carry them. But if Joe Namath is in, Troy Aikman is going to be in also. Book it.

[bkrich83]

Of the Dallas triplets I think Irvin has the weakest case. His numbers are solid, but he's not in the Top 10 in any category, he never really shined and had a huge game in any of their SB's, although he came up big in several playoff games. If you look at the career numbers of other WR's who played in his era, he's about #8 in receptions and #9 in receiving yards, and he really didn't score a lot o TD's.

However, his numbers are still pretty good, factor in that he was a key player and made some big plays for a 3 time SB champ team, and I think he gets it. I really wasn't expecting him to go in on the first ballot. Only 2 WR's have ever gone in on the first ballot. I have no doubt he'll get in in the next year or two.

Personally I just looking at the numbers I see him as a borderline HOF'er. I wouldn't be upset if he got in and I wouldn't be outraged if he didn't. I sure would like to see Art Monk get in, if Irvin does however.

Aikman, is a no brainer. His numbers really aren't that special. He only threw for 20 td's in a season once in his career, and his career high in passing yards in a season is 3,445 yards. His TD to INT ratio isn't great, 165 TD's to 141 INT's. Again, however, he was the triggerman for a team that won 3 SB's. He won a ton of big games. And while I think Steve Young was a better QB (first ballot inductee) Aikman seemed to beat Young more than Young beat Aikman. If you look at his post-season performances he had some outstanding games, including a 4 td SB game. Like Kazuya said, SB wins go a long way for the QB position. For me, Aikman should be a lock for a first ballot entry in the HOF.

[Sully]

Irvin will make it in, he was one the best WR's in his era and a main component of 3 Cowboys Super Bowl teams. However, his career stats aren't overwhelming, and I thought all along that he was a borderline first ballot HOFer. IMO, Art Monk should enter the Hall before Michael Irvin does.

Actually, his numbers *were* overwhelming. He only played 159 games due to injuries and the premature ending of his career. Charlie Joiner, who is tied on the all-time list with Irvin with 750 catches, needed *80* more games to get the same number. Irvin also had a 15.9 yard per catch, which was surpassed only by a few in the history of the game over a career. He was one of the most prolific receivers ever, and he would be even higher on the list if not for missing nearly 2 full seasons sue to injury in addition to retiring early. Having said that, he still should be what he is: borderline first ballot. Automatic first ballot receivers should be guys like Rice and (if he keeps it up and can ever win anything) Marvin Harrison.
Monk should also easily be a HOF, on catches alone (not to mention just being a high quality receiver for forever) but his case will be hurt untill Irvin gets in. Monk's case is not nearly as strong as Irvin's.

Joiner played in a different era, so when comparing their numbers, I would say Joiner's numbers were more impressive. Aside from the stats BK listed, Irvin only eclipsed 100 receptions once during his career, and his highest TD total in a season was 10. Again, his numbers were solid and consistent, but hardly overwhelming. I don't think it's his regular season numbers that carry all the weight. Looking at his playoff numbers, they're outstanding. The big game stats, and the fact that he was a main contributor for 3 SB teams carry more weight than his solid regular season stats, IMO. He'll get in. I don't think it'll be next year though. It's highly unlikely that the voters will send two Cowboys into the Hall, in the same year. Aikman is a likely first ballot HOFer, due to the QB's SB win factor. I see Irvin entering 2 or 3 years from now.

[kevinpars]

Much as I hated Irvin, I think he was the leader on those Dallas teams.

I just think the process stinks. The whole idea of making players wait a year or 2 is just stupid. Unless Irvin comes out of retirement, he is not going to have better career numbers next year when the review takes place.

I can certainly understand why Harry Carson told them to take a hike.

[XXXIV]

Im not a fan of the Skins,Cowboys or the Giants but I am not blind.

Monk should have been in a 1000 years ago...Its disgraceful...He has the numbers and the rings...No excuse for him not to be there.

Irvin should get in in the next 2-3 years ...A major player on a team tha won 3 in 4 years....with numbers to boot....If he isnt someone needs to take a serious look at the assholes doing the voting.

Carson should be pissed...My dislike of the Giants doesnt make Carson any less of a HoFer ...I know one when when I see one....Too bad the morons that do the voting have no clue.

[Sully]

Im not a fan of the Skins,Cowboys or the Giants but I am not blind.

Monk should have been in a 1000 years ago...Its disgraceful...He has the numbers and the rings...No excuse for him not to be there.

Irvin should get in in the next 2-3 years ...A major player on a team tha won 3 in 4 years....with numbers to boot....If he isnt someone needs to take a serious look at the assholes doing the voting.

Carson should be pissed...My dislike of the Giants doesnt make Carson any less of a HoFer ...I know one when when I see one....Too bad the morons that do the voting have no clue.

I couldn't agree more.

[bkrich83]

Irvin will make it in, he was one the best WR's in his era and a main component of 3 Cowboys Super Bowl teams. However, his career stats aren't overwhelming, and I thought all along that he was a borderline first ballot HOFer. IMO, Art Monk should enter the Hall before Michael Irvin does.

Actually, his numbers *were* overwhelming. He only played 159 games due to injuries and the premature ending of his career. Charlie Joiner, who is tied on the all-time list with Irvin with 750 catches, needed *80* more games to get the same number. Irvin also had a 15.9 yard per catch, which was surpassed only by a few in the history of the game over a career. He was one of the most prolific receivers ever, and he would be even higher on the list if not for missing nearly 2 full seasons sue to injury in addition to retiring early. Having said that, he still should be what he is: borderline first ballot. Automatic first ballot receivers should be guys like Rice and (if he keeps it up and can ever win anything) Marvin Harrison.
Monk should also easily be a HOF, on catches alone (not to mention just being a high quality receiver for forever) but his case will be hurt untill Irvin gets in. Monk's case is not nearly as strong as Irvin's.

Joiner played in a different era, so when comparing their numbers, I would say Joiner's numbers were more impressive. Aside from the stats BK listed, Irvin only eclipsed 100 receptions once during his career, and his highest TD total in a season was 10. Again, his numbers were solid and consistent, but hardly overwhelming. I don't think it's his regular season numbers that carry all the weight. Looking at his playoff numbers, they're outstanding. The big game stats, and the fact that he was a main contributor for 3 SB teams carry more weight than his solid regular season stats, IMO. He'll get in. I don't think it'll be next year though. It's highly unlikely that the voters will send two Cowboys into the Hall, in the same year. Aikman is a likely first ballot HOFer, due to the QB's SB win factor. I see Irvin entering 2 or 3 years from now.

One thing about Joiner, other than the fact when he first hit the league, it was a a run first league. He was also drafted as a DB, and didn't become a full time WR until a couple of years in to his career.