SPOILER WARNING: Man U-Arsenal discussion

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:19 am

First things first: This is the thread for those who already have seen the Man U-Arsenal game from Tuesday or know the score and want to discuss it.

Man, that was some of the best sports entertainment I've enjoyed in the last 12 months. That game was filled with some class goals, nice play and tons of intensity.

I found it pretty puzzling that Arsenal couldn't mount much of an attack after Silvestre was sent off. Stupid move by Silvestre, by the way. Head-butting right in front of Poll!

Arsenal moved the ball on the floor beautifully in the first half when sides were even, but it couldn't muster anything close to that when it was a man-up in the second half.

Like Chelsea, Man U knows the way to titles is defense. I thought Man U's back four looked very solid, especially Heinze in recovering from a ragged first 10 minutes.

Is it just me, or did Sol Campbell look a bit lost at times before he was hurt? I'm not used to seeing Campbell being abused like that.

On offense, Rooney is a menace -- both with his feet and mouth. The kid has superb vision for someone who is supposedly just a scorer. His flick to Giggs in the box for the goal was sublime.

I know Van Nistelrooy is the scorer supreme for Man U, but I'd take Rooney over Ruud any day. Rooney is much more of a physical presence and a much better passer. Plus Van Nistelrooy is useless outside of the box -- he's a sniper, plain and simple. Trivia question: How many Premiership goals has Ruud Van Nistelrooy scored outside of the 18-yard box in his career? Answer: Zero.

One other observation: Something tells me that Sir ExLax is finally getting through to Ronaldo regarding his on-the-ball tricks. He seems to be a lot more direct with his passing and decision-making than earlier this season and last year, when he would dick around doing step-over after step-over before making a pass or a run.

Very, very entertaining game. The Premiership is one of the most exciting sports leagues of any type in the entire world.

P.S.: Did anyone see Ledesma's goal for Boca against River Sunday night? It was the goal of the year for me -- a 30-35-yard strike from open-field play, not off a free kick, in the upper-right corner. Absolutely glorious!

Take care,
PK

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:14 am

I would have sent Rooney off, but then again, I don't ref anymore! Great game though. 2 quick strikes in 5 minutes turned the whole match on its head.

jimd · Post by **jimd** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:31 am

Great, great match. Intensity, atmosphere, it had it all, x10. I agree Heinze was awesome, especially after that rather auspicious beginning. I was surprised how invisible Henry, Viera, and Pires were. They didn't step up at all. In fact, so was Paul Scholes...rather surprising. Roy Keane never disappoints, he was a real anchor in the midfield; and did anyone catch him barking at Viera in the tunnel before the teams came onto the pitch? Awesome stuff.

Sol Campbell? I like him, but I think John Terry and Rio Ferdinand have passed him in England's center-back pecking order.

One more observation, how do two of the top teams in the EPL, if not the world, have such mediocre goalkeepers? (Especially Arsenal.)

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:44 am

fsquid wrote:I would have sent Rooney off, but then again, I don't ref anymore! Great game though. 2 quick strikes in 5 minutes turned the whole match on its head.

Agreed. But I thought Poll kept the game under control very well and showed good decision-making as to when to show cards and when to lecture.

O'Shea's goal was one of the cheekier chips I've seen this season. Very clever goal, and very onsides. His reaction afterward was priceless: I don't know if he was more stunned that he scored or if he wondered if he was offsides.

Take care,
PK

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:50 am

not bad for a fullback!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:50 am

jimd wrote:Great, great match. Intensity, atmosphere, it had it all, x10. I agree Heinze was awesome, especially after that rather auspicious beginning. I was surprised how invisible Henry, Viera, and Pires were. They didn't step up at all. In fact, so was Paul Scholes...rather surprising. Roy Keane never disappoints, he was a real anchor in the midfield; and did anyone catch him barking at Viera in the tunnel before the teams came onto the pitch? Awesome stuff.

Sol Campbell? I like him, but I think John Terry and Rio Ferdinand have passed him in England's center-back pecking order.

One more observation, how do two of the top teams in the EPL, if not the world, have such mediocre goalkeepers? (Especially Arsenal.)

Very good point about Henry, Vieira and Pires. Vieira just disappeared after the first 10 minutes, and this game will do little to dispel the notion that Henry doesn't show up for big games.

Say what you will about Rooney, but that kid DOES show up for the big ones. Hat trick in debut against Fenerbache, big goals in the FA Cup last weekend, a very strong game despite his childish temper last night.

Agree 100 percent on Rio and Terry passing Campbell in the pecking order. Also agree on the keepers. I find it hard to believe that Tim Howard is worse than Carroll, and Wenger must have pictures of Lehmann with farm animals. Alumnia looked confused at times, especially when he charged from his line to get balls in the air and was left in no man's land.

I guess I disagree with you a bit on Keane. I thought he was shown up as old and slow a few times last night, as he lost possession fairly easily. But I guess I'm comparing the 2005 Keane to the 1999 or 2000 Keane, and that's not fair. Keane was more of an offensive force then, I think, but now he's a classic defending, holding midfielder. Still, he looked a step slow at times to me.

Finally, is there a more maligned, underrated winger in England now than Ryan Giggs? I hate Man U, but I admire Giggs. The guy is a great player, and I'm stunned to hear the now-annual rumors that Man U is going to let him go or that he may retire. The guy showed Robert Pires how a left wing should play last night.

Take care,
PK

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:01 pm

Yes awsome match.
Player of the game was Poll for sure, what a task he had. Besides the lectures he realy let the game flow as much as possible, the players did him no favors.

Cambell was out of sorts, maybe Cygan returning, maybe he thinks he should play up front now after his goal,hope Sven has his eye on him.

Rooney over Ruud?Not yet, his teenage thug persona needs work.
Rooney should play in front of scholes and just behind the front 2.

On too The Knob errr Ronaldo, im sure the Fans and press have a lot to do with his step overs and fancy stuff being on the decline, that stuff just doesnt sit well with us Brits. But man he is fun to watch when he just plays.

And how about that European influence on Ashley cole in the first minutes?(the dive)
Poll was awsome.

Now all we need is a Chelsea loss soon. Whos missing Hockey ? not me.

jimd · Post by **jimd** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:24 pm

pk500 wrote:I guess I disagree with you a bit on Keane. I thought he was shown up as old and slow a few times last night, as he lost possession fairly easily. But I guess I'm comparing the 2005 Keane to the 1999 or 2000 Keane, and that's not fair. Keane was more of an offensive force then, I think, but now he's a classic defending, holding midfielder. Still, he looked a step slow at times to me.

He has definitely lost a step and his offenseive game has declined considerably, but I guess I am still amazed by Keano. A guy his age playing in the super-fast paced EPL and still performing at a high level. It would be one thing if he was doing it in the slower, more cerebral Series A or La Liga, but the fact he does it in the chaotic EPL is impressive.

True, he gave up the ball once or twice in bad areas, and two years ago he would never do that, but for the most part he still is a calming/steady influence in United's center. (Note: I have noticed that Ferdinand is starting to assume more of that role, and is quite effective.) He's passing and holding of the ball in busy areas, while subtle, is vital to their success, IMO.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:25 pm

That was a great match. I wouldn't necessarily agree that Henry didn't show up though. Sure he didn't score but he did put a lot of pressure on net in the second half and would have netted one if he had struck that bicycle kick better.

Bergkamp had a great game and really made his presence known. Both keepers looked average at best and at least 2 of the last 3 Man U goals should not have gone in. Rooney is a beast and is quickly becoming a player I want to see more of. Poll set the tone early and definitely kept things under control while letting the players play. Ronaldo's 2 goals really seemed to take all of the steam out of Arsenal's sails. Did Greg Lougainus father every player in the EPL?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:29 pm

Scoop:

I know you're a hockey fan, so does Wayne Rooney remind you of a young Mark Messier on a soccer pitch as much as he does to me?

The power, the speed, the strength, the scoring touch, the vision, the bad attitude: Rooney is Messier in soccer boots.

Take care,
PK

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:29 pm

You can say the same about Scholes, how many times did you here his name? it was just tough to find room in the middle both teams new what they were doing and im sure Henry and Scholes were first on both lists.

RiverRat · Post by **RiverRat** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:33 pm

pk500 wrote:O'Shea's goal was one of the cheekier chips I've seen this season. Very clever goal, and very onsides.

I agree. That was beautiful. I also thought the cross from Giggs on ManU's thrid goal was one of the best crosses I have seen in a long, long time. It wasn't the longest great cross I've seen, but it was made pretty much at full speed and under defensive pressure and it was PERFECTLY placed, and I do mean inch-perfect. Very nice.

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:33 pm

pk500 wrote: Finally, is there a more maligned, underrated winger in England now than Ryan Giggs? I hate Man U, but I admire Giggs. The guy is a great player, and I'm stunned to hear the now-annual rumors that Man U is going to let him go or that he may retire. The guy showed Robert Pires how a left wing should play last night.

Take care,
PK

It is a contract year funny enough.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:44 pm

I only caught some of the second half of the match last night...pretty impressive sutff from Man U. After the tying goal (2-2) Arsenal seemed out of it.

The cross from Giggs for goal #4 was very nice. He also made a great pass on Ronaldo's first goal.

However, is it me, or did the goalkeeper play the 3 and 4th goals poorly. I'm no soccer expert, but he seemed to either have bad positioning or took himself out of the play on both goals. I could be totally wrong.

Speaking of Henry, I don't think I heard his name called at all in the second half. I was doing some stuff while the game was playing in the background and I swear I never heard his name after the 50th minute or so. Was he playing much the second half or was he just that invisible?

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:55 pm

pk500 wrote:Scoop:

I know you're a hockey fan, so does Wayne Rooney remind you of a young Mark Messier on a soccer pitch as much as he does to me?

The power, the speed, the strength, the scoring touch, the vision, the bad attitude: Rooney is Messier in soccer boots.

Take care,
PK

Yeah, I can definitely see that and I was always a fan of Messier (even on the Rangers...bleh) so that is likely why I'm digging Rooney. And tsunami, to me it seemed like Henry and Bergkamp were the only players on Arsenal that actually did anything offensively in the latter part of the second half.

TheMightyPuck · Post by **TheMightyPuck** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:27 pm

pk500 wrote: Finally, is there a more maligned, underrated winger in England now than Ryan Giggs? I hate Man U, but I admire Giggs. The guy is a great player, and I'm stunned to hear the now-annual rumors that Man U is going to let him go or that he may retire. The guy showed Robert Pires how a left wing should play last night.

Take care,
PK

Pires was always a diving cheat (a good one but still), Giggs always seemed to have a lot more class. Right now Giggs is on fire. Did you see his chip on Cech in the CC? Giggs was MOM in both games IMHO.

TheMightyPuck · Post by **TheMightyPuck** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:31 pm

Jimmydeicide wrote:You can say the same about Scholes, how many times did you here his name? it was just tough to find room in the middle both teams new what they were doing and im sure Henry and Scholes were first on both lists.

Scholes took one for the team. Basically played a def mid role as far as I could tell. Really got stuck in.

pigpen81 · Post by **pigpen81** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:20 pm

I caught the seconfd half of the replay last night at Grandpa's and wow, I was jumping up and down. Even Grandpa(85) had a big smile on his face and he has never watched what he calls "kickball".

I'm sorry, but to me the MOM was Heinze. In the second half he was a defensive force, plus he pratcticlly made the 4th goal with his great run.

He is the biggest reason ManU are back on form.

I love watching Arsenal lose, Wengers face contorts a 1,000 different ways when they struggle.

I wish I saw the first half, but that second half is an instant classic.....wow.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:48 am

I am confused. Tues on my Fox Sports Net was Arsenol vs Newcastle???
Why did I have a different game?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:02 am

JackB1 wrote:I am confused. Tues on my Fox Sports Net was Arsenol vs Newcastle???
Why did I have a different game?

Arsenal-Man U was live on Fox Sports World, not Fox Sports Net. They're different networks.

FSW is devoted solely to world sports, especially soccer. FSN is a collection of regional American Fox Sports networks that usually shows one Premiership game per week as its only soccer offering, outside of MLS games in some FSN markets.

The confusion will be reduced this Sunday when Fox Sports World becomes Fox Soccer Channel.

Take care,
PK

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:56 am

pigpen81 wrote:
I'm sorry, but to me the MOM was Heinze. In the second half he was a defensive force, plus he pratcticlly made the 4th goal with his great run.

He is the biggest reason ManU are back on form.

.

Yeh ok Yanky boy, 1 player is the reason ,especialy a left back lol, that proves winning eleven isnt a sim, that comment.

Getting all their injured players back didnt help at all, Gigsy playing like hes 20. Heinze is from like Uraguay not Mexico so stop being a homo errr homer.

And get your arse back online.
Spurs are Top then Man U ,then Portsmouth with a game in hand.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:25 pm

PK....is Fox Sports World a "pay extra for" channel and if so, is it worth it?
I have Direct TV, but currently only get Fox Sports Net.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:38 pm

Jack,
I pay extra on my cable bill for the package that includes FSW and to me it's well worth it if you like watching quality soccer. It seems as if it will even be more worth it when they become a soccer exclusive station this weekend. I have Comcast though so I don't know what it would cost or if it is available for DirectTV though I imagine it is. Even if you watch just a match a week and some highlight shows it's well worth it in this country where we don't get sh!t when it comes to soccer coverage.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:39 pm

JackB1 wrote:PK....is Fox Sports World a "pay extra for" channel and if so, is it worth it?
I have Direct TV, but currently only get Fox Sports Net.

Jack:

I don't have satellite TV, but I assume that FSW is one of the top-tier channels. You only can get it with Digital Cable with TimeWarner in my area.

As for it being worth it, is the Pope Catholic? Hell, yeah, it's worth it to me. I watch it more than any other channel. It's my desert island channel.

Take care,
PK