Help with perceived ESPN NFL 2K5 flaws

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:16 am

Boys:

I've been playing ESPN NFL 2K5 quite a bit the last few days, experimenting with slider settings and the various pass defense tips people have given me. And I still have two major AI flaw beefs that are driving me insane:

1. The CPU-controlled defensive back AI for the human team is deaf, dumb and blind. I can't tell you how many times the CPU has thrown into double- and triple-coverage and made the completion, even when I've used the Y button to attempt a tip. I'm using conservative defenses, not blitzing a ton of guys, and my DB AI just sucks.

2. The CPU seems to have acres of space on kickoffs and punts for returns while I'm smothered quickly by the CPU on returns.

Any suggestions for either of these woes? I really like ESPN NFL 2K5 except for these two problems, which are really frustrating.

Thanks in advance.

Take care,
PK

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:29 am

PK,
Have not really had a problem with your first problem but have had problems with the kick coverage. Have tried different things and nothing seems to work. Have to admit my team is Cardinals so that might be part of the problem, but separation on CPU seems to be different than seperation for human players. BTW PK...played with the hockey sliders you posted the other day..and am loving it.

Granatofan · Post by **Granatofan** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:40 am

I have never been able to successfully execute the left and right kick and punt return plays. I only have success in the middle and actually ran one back for a TD once.

As far as DB AI I have the same problem, but I use GB and their DB's suck. I don't have too much of a problem with it because.... 1. The total pass yards and completion percentages come out about right. 2. I can execute and exploit the same woeful AI and my pass completion and yards are coming out right as well.

Ted

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:57 am

Ted:

You're right on the second point. I can throw into tight coverage and get completions almost as much as the CPU team.

Maybe I'll try to drop the passing slider a bit for both sides and see how that works. I don't want to touch my catching slider, as I think I get a very, very realistic amount of drops now.

Thanks,
PK

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:16 am

The DBs in some coverages will run away from receivers, they just turn and run after the ball is snapped often away from the receiver! The linebackers do not drop to their zones either for some defenses.I have not played Madden 2005, but every Madden since at least Madden 97 has better AI overall. You must turn the coverage and pursuit slider up all the way at the very least.
The only football game DB AI that might compare to NFL 2K5 is Gameday 2001 for the PS2. I like SEGA's ESPN NHL 2K5, but NFL 2K5 is well......a letdown IMHO. In fact I would say the DB AI in Gameday 2001 is slighty better than NFL 2K5, but not much. Obviously, ESPN NFL 2K5 is a much much better product than most Madden and certainly Gameday 2001 football games, but the DB AI is not a strong point at all.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:18 am

TRI wrote:The DBs in some coverages will run away from receivers, they just turn and run after the ball is snapped often away from the receiver! The linebackers do not drop to their zones either for some defenses.I have not played Madden 2005, but every Madden since at least Madden 97 has better AI overall. You must turn the coverage and pursuit slider up all the way at the very least.
The only football game DB AI that might compare to NFL 2K5 is Gameday 2001 for the PS2. I like SEGA's ESPN NHL 2K5, but NFL 2K5 is well......a letdown IMHO. In fact I would say the DB AI in Gameday 2001 is slighty better than NFL 2K5, but not much. Obviously, ESPN NFL 2K5 is a much much better product than most Madden and certainly Gameday 2001 football games, but the DB AI is not a strong point at all.

So I take it your circuitous answer to my question is "buy another game?" I'm not going to do that.

Out,
PK

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:28 am

TRI wrote: Obviously, ESPN NFL 2K5 is a much much better product than most Madden and certainly Gameday 2001 football games.

Are you sure???
You seemed to really struggle with that.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:06 am

As far as the punt returns...I try and take control of the wing guy on the side I plan on returning...before the snap. I block the hell out of the man I'm matched up with. This gives you a bit more time to get some yardage on that side. In my online league I'm having success returning kicks and punts but its still tough offline.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:18 pm

On punt returns, I can usually get by the first man down the field by "charging up" my returner just as the punt is coming down to him (you don't have to wait for him to actually catch it before beginning to charge), and then using the right thumbstick to do a couple of juke moves. I usually average 8-12 yards a return if it's not a "fair-catchable" punt that way.

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:14 pm

In pass defense Y is your friend. Even if you're not controlling a DB, hit Y when the ball is arriving and your DB's will react to the ball.

On kick returns the right stick is your best bet.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:41 pm

Thanks, fellas.

Lskye, what does the right stick do on returns? I guess I should read my manual more often.

Thanks again,
PK

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:42 pm

I haven't tried this a lot yet, but I seem to have more success running back kicks if I change direction a couple of times. Just spooting a hole and trying to hit it never seems to get me much, but I have had some longer runs where I cut back a couple of times.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:15 pm

Does turning the performance EQ on help with defensive back AI at all?

I thought I read that somewhere on the Net, but I'm reluctant to use EQ at all because I don't want to turn Randy Moss into Josh Reed, if you know what I mean. I want the monsters of the NFL to play like monsters.

Take care,
PK

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:02 pm

pk500 wrote:Does turning the performance EQ on help with defensive back AI at all?

I thought I read that somewhere on the Net, but I'm reluctant to use EQ at all because I don't want to turn Randy Moss into Josh Reed, if you know what I mean. I want the monsters of the NFL to play like monsters.

Take care,
PK

Did Josh Reed once play for LSU a few years ago? The name sounds familiar.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:22 pm

Yes. He now plays for my beloved Buffalo Bills and has been a bit of a disappointment. Hence I used him as a comparison to a stud, Moss.

Take care,
PK

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:32 pm

pk500 wrote:Yes. He now plays for my beloved Buffalo Bills and has been a bit of a disappointment. Hence I used him as a comparison to a stud, Moss.

Take care,
PK

Plus he is in Gamebreaker 2001 and NCAA 2001 which have far superior DB AI then ESPN NFL 2K5. Thus allowing you the ability to stop Josh Reed. Sure this has nothing to do with what PK was asking but I was trying to stay on track with TRI's line of logic in answering the original question.

Oh and PK have you checked out espnvideogames.com forum TIPS section on 2K5? I am like the others, Y is your friend on defense. Or I play as linebacker and never switch to the DB and get burned by that little annoying delay that rears it's ugly head. As for the punt or kickoff returns I have just come to the reality that either...

A: I suck at the game
B: They just made it too hard to return kicks. I fare a little better on punt returns and yes you should look into using the R analog for some nice jukes.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:29 pm

Brent:

Good tip on espnvideogames.com. I visited that site when I first got NFL 2K5 but haven't been there in a while.

I also never play defensive back, either, except for possibly a late switch when I know the ball is in the air coming toward one of my DB's. I almost always control a linebacker from the start of the play, occasionally controlling a lineman when I want to try a stunt move or just for a short change of pace.

Thanks,
PK

skinsfan · Post by **skinsfan** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:11 pm

Do you use sliders with the coverage lowered?Much lower than default and the db's are awful.Of course you may get more picks...hard to find the right balance.I think the closer to default sliders,the better ESPN plays.Madden/NCAA need a bit more severe tweaking.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:18 pm

Skins:

Thanks for the reply. Coverage is 40 (maxed) for human and CPU. Got that as a baseline from Bill Harris' sliders at OS.

And my DB's still blow. Some of it is my incompetence. Some of it is bad defensive playcalling or adjustments by me.

But I'm getting really tired of seeing a CPU WR triple-covered and making the catch while two of my CPU-controlled DB's in that triple coverage are looking away from the ball despite being a step away from the receiver.

Take care,
PK

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm

pk500 wrote:Skins:

Thanks for the reply. Coverage is 40 (maxed) for human and CPU. Got that as a baseline from Bill Harris' sliders at OS.

And my DB's still blow. Some of it is my incompetence. Some of it is bad defensive playcalling or adjustments by me.

But I'm getting really tired of seeing a CPU WR triple-covered and making the catch while two of my CPU-controlled DB's in that triple coverage are looking away from the ball despite being a step away from the receiver.

Take care,
PK

I am hoping that VC can correct these awful game play flaws. If they do, ESPN NFL 2K6 could potentially be a great game. PK....I am happy to see you are finally noticing just how subpar the defensive AI is in the game. This is something the developers have not yet taken time to address. At least ESPN NFL 2K5 does not cheat like past Madden football games.

GridIronGhost · Post by **GridIronGhost** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:45 am

That ESPN is one funny kid. Last year punt\kick returns was so easy, I averaged 3 per game for TD's. Many bitched about the problem, this year it looks like VC said fukem..we'll show them and made it hard. I still have not had 1 return for a TD.

Once it was impossible to get sacks, now our Oline is so dumb down that sacks sometime equals game scores. Last year many bitched about receivers not catching, VC said fukem we'll make the defence run away instead of hitting the receiver and knocking the ball loose. So now we can catch balls in double or triple coverage and we can air it out to our slot receiver running a slant to the outside for a 95% completion every time.

Last year we had running backs that ran 400+ yards per GAME. This year I must really suck cause I'm having to cheat the sliders to get Wheatly some decent yards.

The list goes on and on...I have enjoyed playing the VC football games over the last few years, but this year I'm done with the game and it was before the half way point of the season. I know my post sounds like a bashing and I'm still bitter, but I just wanted to point out that VC exaggerates the fixes every year and to answer your question PK...there is no fix that I have found. If you find one let me know and as for 2K6 next year, they will prolly over exaggerate the fixes again too. If VC would have merged the good stuff from 2K3 and 2K4 we would have a very good game today....that ESPN is one funny kid.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:02 pm

Grid:

Agreed. And it's not just VC. It seems that many developers use the knee-jerk, overreactive approach to fixes.

Take EA Canada with its NHL series, for example. Last year's NHL 2004 was the closest the franchise has been to a sim for a long time, if not ever. I'm sure a decent amount of the typical EA customer b*tched up a storm, clamoring for the return of speed and big hits, so that's what EA Canada did with NHL 2005, but in an overdose.

And ESPN NHL 2K5 is beating NHL 2005 at the cash registers, at least on the Xbox, based on the latest NPD reports I've read.

Take care,
PK

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:13 pm

PK, try the EQ setting on. I do think it helps. The defensive lapses seem more believable IMHO. Your star players won't suddenly suck, it's more like your average players won't play like idiots as much.

The kick returns are really screwy. It was too easy to return kickoffs last year, but now no one blocks. Madden did a nice job with kick returns this year but punt returns suck in both games.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:57 pm

Brando:

I tried EQ on and didn't like it. Yes, it helped with the DB play, but it neutered the skills of top players too much for my liking, watering down the talent pool.

Thanks,
PK