Colin M 2005 Impressions

AcemanPR · Post by **AcemanPR** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:24 pm

Hey fellows, long time lurker here, and some recognize me, but figured it was time to join up as well.

I'm a big fan of this series too, and look forward to discussing this game, as well as many other racing games with many of you.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:39 pm

lnin0, Ace:
Welcome to the nut house. Glad you could stop by.

lnin0:
Hope you're right about the ghosts. I guess we'll see when someone finally decides to look for it and tell me. I love rally, and have always like the CMR series, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed...

Again, welcome...

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:44 pm

Guess CMR brings em outta the woodworks. Welcome guys.

Just picked up my copy at lunch.

- Ø

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:42 pm

and he assured me that the ghost in CMR5 will be switchable on or off

Well, I sure do hope so.

Just wish somebody that has the game and has PLAYED ONLINE would sack up and tell us for sure whether or not you can turn them off.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:20 pm

Hi all,

Question from a racing nut - I've been playing Richard Burns Rally pretty solidly for a couple of months now (finally won a rally against the world class drivers yesterday, and nearly punched the roof celebrating) and I'm more than happy to continue with it, but I've got room for more than one rally game in my collection. I played CMR04 for Calvert Games and enjoyed it a lot, but it was really an evolution from CMR3 rather than a big step. Beyond the career mode, what differences in features and gameplay are there in CMR5 that might justify me laying out 30 quid for it?

Cheers,
Adam

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:23 pm

Ok so I tried some online, sack is up

As far as i can tell, you CANNOT turn the ghosts off for online play

however, while I thought it would drive me insane (judging by my brief attempts with ghost on in TT mode in 04), but really they didn't bother me at all. Mostly that may be due to the fact that i would take a left where there was a right, and then i was pretty much alone! Seriously though, even when there were a couple ghosts with me, I felt like they were only minorly distracting, and I think as I get more used to it, it will bother me less and less.

What will likely bother me more and more is that there don't seem to be any setup adjustments for online

And also, while you can at least nominally do 'rallys' as opposed to just 'stages' online, there is no carry over damage from stage to stage, no service area, none of that. So, online feels much more like a cheap arcade version of the game than a robust online version of the offline game. Bummer.

The good news is that since it's just ghosts, anyone (even my crappy DSL u/l conn) can host the full complement of 8 drivers, and there is no lag, no online artifacts whatever, excepting some of the codies' classic 'skate on your front left bumper' style weirdness with the other cars. But of course they're just ghosts, so it is less noticable and far less disturbing than in the other 2 online games.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:36 pm

Adam, at this point I would say 05 is an upgrade, or a refinement of 04, more than anything else. The graphics for example, while they may be improved (I've yet to do a side-by-side type comparison), they seem to be pretty much the same with some tweaks and new details. Same thing with the driving model, and the stable of vehicles: there are more cars, but not so many totally new ones (OK maybe there is a whole new class or something, but my memory of 04 ain't so great), and the driving model feels better to me (but what do I know, really?) but not entirely different. [Well, now that I am thinking about it at the end of my post, I think the stages may be better overall, that is they seem a little tougher, a little narrower, not really longer though. On Normal diff, the competition is not difficult, I mean I fell off a cliff and rolled my car completely on one stage and still finished 9sec. ahead!!]

As to new modes, the new career mode seems very long, but it starts out pretty weird, with 'rallies' made up of single stages from different rallies, if you follow me. Browsing around a bit, it's clear that as I go, it will get more involved; some of these career challenges coming up soon for me are, say 16 stages in 4 rallies, or something. So, I'm sure as I get towards the middle, it should be more rationally designed. As it is, though, the career mode seems like it was designed by those proverbial monkeys banging away typing up some Shakespeare; I just can't see the logic in it, and find it disorienting.

However, to me this is a polishing up and fleshing out (albeit not Orson Welles level fleshing out) of what I really enjoyed in 04. More rallies, more total stages, more cars, more varietous modes (OK, so it's only career that's all that new), and online play (not useful for you, I know).

Whether it's worth your 30 quid, I can't really say. If you liked the last one, I would think a solid 'maybe' is what I would say. For my part, I am very happy with the purchase (of course it was only $30, feels a bit cheaper than £30 would seem).

I'd stay posted for more knowledgeable rally fans to chime in, those with more rally game experience and who may have played 04 to death (which I did not).

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:52 pm

Enjoy the game, boys. Who knows when I'll get my copy. My Codies' contact who is getting me a freebie is on jury duty, and there's no way I'm paying $30 for a game that eventually will come to me for free.

Eager for more impressions. Hell, I'll know the game inside-out before I even play it!

Take care,
PK

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:58 pm

Ghosts stay? Eh.

Lemme know how it goes. After the ghosts is RSC2, I just don't care to get that distracted by having a phantom rallycross going on when that's not what it's supposed to be. I'll keep watching and listening, but that's as far as it goes for now...

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:01 pm

PK...go buy it...play it and then return the copy you get from the Codies next week.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:02 pm

Yeah, PK, can't you buy a copy, and then return the sealed one you get from the codies with the receipt from the one you bought?

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:55 pm

ghost cars = huge f***in distraction~!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:57 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:PK...go buy it...play it and then return the copy you get from the Codies next week.

Waste of a trip to the store, fellas. There aren't EB's on every corner like in SoCal. I live in the semi-sticks.

I'm going away tomorrow afternoon for the weekend, anyways, so I'll resort to desperate measures next week if needed. Want to watch some shows and the Presidential Debate on TV tonight.

So what's the fact: Can ghost cars be turned off online?

Take care,
PK

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:29 pm

This game is freakin' HARD. Damn I suck.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:46 pm

Yeah it is db. I sucked at 04 and now I suck more. You really pay a price for venturing off the trail. You really get slowed down and it really messes with your pace.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:04 pm

I can't find a way to turn ghost cars off online and they distract me something fierce.

Voice chat is only in the lobby which is a good thing. There may be an option to make it on at all times, but I don't think so. Doesn't bother me if there isn't. In the lobby is just fine by me.

No car setups in "stage" mode online. Not sure about "Rally" mode because I've yet to try it, but Lord I do hope so. I think Codies left it out to keep the flow of the game going online. i can understand how it would suck to sit there for 15 minutes waiting for random guy to dink w/ his setups. However, I think the crowd that I'd mostly play this with would be pretty quick about getting the setups done and getting on the course.

Game is much tougher than ever before... and by a large margin. This is a good thing.

AcemanPR · Post by **AcemanPR** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:46 pm

Yeah Boom, this game is much tougher than previous versions. Started a career on Normal. Came in 2nd place my first Shield event. Any other Colin game, I'd have blown away the competition.

As far as online play, I'm just happy the Leaderboards work much more fluently. As far as actual online rally racing, I'll try and check it out tomorrow. But to be honest, there is probably a good 100+ hours of playtime in Career mode alone.

Awesome game!!!!

lnin0 · Post by **lnin0** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:32 am

Got the game and it is fantastic offline. Online it is good but really doesn't manage to do much better than RSC2.

You CAN turn ghosts off or on but you have to do it from the game option menu BEFORE going online. You can't change the game options once online. It is on the same option screen as the direction arrows - called 'ghost' something and it really makes it sound like it is just talking about seeing your own best ghost during time trials.

You CAN turn on chat or you CAN turn on your co-driver but you CANNOT have your co-driver on and chat during the race. If your co-driver is on you can only talk in the lobby and for the first 3 seconds of a race before you get the green light.

You CANNOT do anykind of car setups online and, while you can set damage to normal or heavy, it does not carry over from stage to stage and there is no service areas - even in the "rally" mode.

Rally mode lets you run any of the full country rallies or make custom ones of your own but the problem is you NEVER see the overall leaderboard or times until after the last stage. The only score the lobby shows is your world ranking points - which is totally independent of the event your in. SO basically there is no drama to running a rally because
- you never know how is leading or by how much until it is over when you see the final time totals and winners
- there are no car setups
- damage does not carry over and there are no service areas

"stage" mode online operates like RSC2 with the host picking car/stage and weather options prior to each race. However there is no overall score or ranking like rally keeps for the room - instead you get the world game ranking points ELO system similar to ToCAs.

There are some nice PRG2 scoreboards and after you run time trial events in single player it pulls up the Live leaderboard for that stage. It shows what time, player, car and weather everyone had. Unfortunatly you can't sort from this screen. If you want to sort by your ranking or your friends you have to go to the Leaderboards menu.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:04 am

Great info In, thanks a lot.

I'll look into turning the ghost cars off because that will help me out a lot I think.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:59 am

OK tested online with Ghost Cars and Progress turned off. Stock in this game just went up tremendously. The game is already friggin awesome as it is, but with ghost cars turned off I'm loving it.

Actually, I turned off not only ghost cars and progress bar, but Co-Driver Arrows as well.

For me having these three things turned off makes for a much more fun experience. I may be putting my self at a disadvantage against people who do not choose to do this, but so be it.

A large part of the excitement for me is the uncertainty of knowing how I did against the other racers out there. Racing against ghost cars takes the anticipation of the scoreboards away after finishing the stage. I like waiting for that bad boy to pop up and show me how well (or how terrible in my case) I've done.

AcemanPR · Post by **AcemanPR** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:16 am

Totally agree with you Boom.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:28 am

This is a great game offline (haven't had a chance to take it online), but as mentioned, very hard. But nothing beats that one random stage where you just nail the corners and keep momentum going. Of course, nothing is worse than a stage where you find no rhythm whatsoever and make a few wrong turns here and there. I can't even imagine how fast the 4wd cars are, I've only used the VW and MG so far.

I'm definitely looking forward to going online with it for some DSP Rallies.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:30 am

I'm not having too tough of a time offline. Through 6 stages I'm easily in the lead against the rest of the pack. I don't think I cannot win this thing if there's only 8 stages. I'm sure it'll get tougher, but right now I'm holding my own offline.

Online is a different story lol

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:54 am

Thanks for the continued impressions lnin0 and boom. I got the game last night and I guess it's all just in the eye of the beholder, because I am so underwhelmed by it.

I have owned and played every version of the Colin McRae series, both PC and console and outside of CMR3, have enjoyed every version.

However, I just don't see how Codemasters can release 3 Colin McRae games in the course of 18 months and not add things that were available in the PC multiplayer mode of Colin McRae 2. This is why I have such a love/hate relationship with Codemasters. They make some very fun racing games that usually do a pretty decent job of riding the fence between sim/arcade, but there is always some glaring problem or omission that brings it down. For example the horrible online and yellow flag bugs in Indycar series.

I understand that they are trying to appeal to a wide variety of gamers, and that "hard core" rally enthusiasts are probably not it, but there have been several PC rally games, including their own CMR2, that have much better multiplayer/online features. To me the following are unacceptabe for a rally sim:

- No car setups online. In rallying, picking the correct setup for the upcoming stages is a huge part of the strategy involved. For example, picking the right tire in a stage of mixed surfaces and making the compromises necessary in your driving style.

- No damage carry over from stage to stage. What is the point then of even having a damn damage model. Rallying is about endurance and doing your best to drive fast while preserving the car to make it to the end of the rally.

- No service areas of any kind. Same as above. Doing your best to make it through the stages to get to the service area, then making the determinations of what you can fix and what you can let go in the limited time frame to work on the car is a big part of the whole Rally genre.

- You never see the overall leaderboard or times until after the last stage. Again, what is the point. We might as well all just run a rally whenever we want and just post our times here. It's good that you can turn off the ghosts and chat if you want to better simulate rallying, but if you don't know where you are at during or between the stages then I agree with lnin0, there is no absolutely no drama to running a rally.

I paid $19.99 for CMR4, and after the debacle of CMR3, I was actually happy with the upgrade. However, even for $30 CMR 2005 is just not worth it in my opinion. At least now I know for a fact there is no reason for me to buy the PC version of CMR 2005, since I already have PC CMR4 with the same multiplayer limitations as above.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:23 pm

Played last night with Fshguy and mix online, and Boom came and joined us for a while as did a friend of his. The 'gummy bear' ghosts were on, and occasionally were very distracting. I think I am going to adopt Boom's recently stated settings for online, basically no computer graphics info: no ghosts, no progress bar, no co-driver icons. (Although i can see running with the icons and voice chat, instead of audible pace-notes, could be fun as hell. I amuse myself sometimes with the comments I make, and it could be funny as heck to hear the outbursts from everyone.)

I absolutely had one hell of a great time last night. Every single stage was unbelievably and intensly fun, truly great stuff. As usual in my experience with the codies' games, the core is solid as a rock, and the driving is fun as hell. Yes, the graphics may not wow you like a lot of driving games, yes the XBL functionality may not be entirely logical or as easy to use as say PGR2 or something, but the core of the experience, the racing, the driving, is solid as a rock, and like i said, fun as hell.

I am bummed that the online rallies are not set up with carry-over damage and setups. I just don't get that if codies can have practice in IndyCar online, they can't have the service area (and with it the carry-over damage, repairs, etc., and heck why not the shakedown stage at the beginning, set up like the practice in IndyCar??).

But, I would rather have online racing (with GHOSTS THAT CAN BE TURNED OFF, Teal, as so efficiently pointed out by In) than not. Certainly the lack of setups is an illogic that eats at my brain (I love the CMR-style simplified setup system, just love it). But, racing online with each other is just plain great fun, there's no other way to say it. It's a total blast. We each go off into our own little world and run our stage, and then at the end, we all come together saying "holy crap," and 'Wow," and "Oh boy," and stuff like that. It was sooo much fun.

One thing is I'm pretty sure some of the rallies/stages are the same as from the last game. Not 100% sure, but i'm pretty sure the US stages, for example, are the same. They look a little different, and maybe are tweaked up, but I really recognized a lot of the bits. It may well be true for all the rallies that were in the last game, Greece, Japan, UK etc. I don't really know, and frankly I don't really care, because I think they all were good in the last game, and they are still fun and challenging and can be frustrating or exhilirating.

Great stuff, I can't wait to get in some more online rallying, visual aids off, relying solely on Nicky Grist's pace notes (thankfully I don't have to hear him say 'mistiBUSHI' all the time!!).