'Official' Madden 2005 Impressions Thread...

[Danimal]

PK,

Just curious what level are you playing Madden on?

Good impressions, I agree both games are really good this year.

For me franchise is the most important thing, and ESPN can't even come close to Madden unfortunately. Even if they were to fix the quirks in their franchise system it is still behind Madden.

I think Zep said it, the more games of Madden you play the more little things you will see.

Of course I find myself setteling into a pattern, 5 games of madden...5 of ESPN...rinse..repeat

[MizzouRah]

PK,

Just curious what level are you playing Madden on?

Good impressions, I agree both games are really good this year.

For me franchise is the most important thing, and ESPN can't even come close to Madden unfortunately. Even if they were to fix the quirks in their franchise system it is still behind Madden.

I think Zep said it, the more games of Madden you play the more little things you will see.

Of course I find myself setteling into a pattern, 5 games of madden...5 of ESPN...rinse..repeat

We're seeing eye to eye Danimal. If ESPN's franchise was anywhere close to Madden's, the case would be closed for me... unfortunetly, it's not even close, so Madden's going to be my franchise game and ESPN will be for online play when I get LIVE.


Todd

[MizzouRah]

I'm playing much better on AM level using the Madden LONG camera angle. I can read the defense much better and actually see my open recievers. Hit Faulk in the open for an 87 yard TD in a game today. By far my best play with Madden 2k5. I also don't see any speed cheats on the AM setting. Faulk pulled away from the defense easily on my 87 yard scamper... nice!

Now, if I could only get my defense to stop the pass, I wouldn't be losing all the time. Practice.....


Todd

[Leebo33]

I am still really enjoying Madden. I'm glad I don't have to choose. I was more than willing to spend $60 (bought Madden at Circuit City) for two great football games.

ESPN last year and both games this year have turned me into an avid football gamer. I used to play the games before, but I rarely finished a season and mainly just played them until the basketball and hockey games came out. Now, I'm glad there are two great games because I will be playing them until next spring on and off.

[pk500]

Dan:

I'm playing All-Pro in ESPN and whatever the level beneath All-Madden is called in Madden. I think they're comparable skill levels.

ESPN still makes me "think football" more than Madden. I just seem to be able to read the defense and offense's intentions at the line in Madden a lot better than ESPN. Plus the speed at which the defense moves in ESPN -- especially the pass rush -- forces me to be more sharp than in Madden.

But both are fine games, as Madden handles "the little things" and finer details of football slightly better than ESPN.

Franchise means absolutely nothing to me, so I would put both games in a dead heat right now. The tiebreaker is price -- ESPN gets the nod by a sliver due to price.

But I'm enjoying the hell out of both and will continue to play the piss out of Madden until my rental expires.

Still, as good as Madden and ESPN NFL are this year, neither is my favorite team sports game of the year so far. That nod goes to ESPN NHL 2K4 with the Improved Scoring patch and Original 6's sliders.

Take care,
PK

[bkrich83]

Franchise means absolutely nothing to me, so I would put both games in a dead heat right now. The tiebreaker is price -- ESPN gets the nod by a sliver due to price.

God bless you, PK ya cheap bastard.

[pk500]

Indeed, BK. It's easier to get copies of Hustler from an Iraqi cleric than it is to pry discretionary income from my wallet.

This is the first time EVER I'm seriously contemplating buying two NFL games in one year. Hell, I've never even owned a college and an NFL game in one year.

Both games are that good, that fun and that different.

There's a very good chance that I'll spend the first half of the real football season with ESPN NFL, playing through an eight-game online league I'm in now, and then pick up Madden on eBay sometime in October or so to finish the rest of the real season with that.

Good times for all.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Guys:

You've got to admit that the civility and rationality that we've all shown in the impressions threads for ESPN and Madden indicate that both of these games are excellent, and that neither has a significant edge over the other.

This has been the best, most informative series of impressions threads that I've seen since I started coming to DSP about five years ago or so.

Round of applause for everyone. Props, boys.

Take care,
PK

[bkrich83]

Indeed, BK. It's easier to get copies of Hustler from an Iraqi cleric than it is to pry discretionary income from my wallet.

Quote of the Day!!!

[pk500]

>>>ESPN last year and both games this year have turned me into an avid football gamer. I used to play the games before, but I rarely finished a season and mainly just played them until the basketball and hockey games came out. Now, I'm glad there are two great games because I will be playing them until next spring on and off.<<<

My experience, exactly. I played ESPN NFL well into the spring last year, but that was only online games with my brother-in-law.

I could see myself playing ESPN and Madden, online and offline, for quite a while this year. Much longer than ever before.

Take care,
PK

[Leebo33]

Guys:

You've got to admit that the civility and rationality that we've all shown in the impressions threads for ESPN and Madden indicate that both of these games are excellent, and that neither has a significant edge over the other.

This has been the best, most informative series of impressions threads that I've seen since I started coming to DSP about five years ago or so.

Round of applause for everyone. Props, boys.

Take care,
PK

I agree. I think it just proves that most of us here are pretty reasonable. We call it like it is regardless of who makes the games, and we give our honest impressions. I don't know how many times I've read "I don't like this or that but ESPN is a great game" or "I prefer Madden, but ESPN is great too."

[Leebo33]

"I use the hit stick when I can but does it matter what direction I point the stick in? Is there a strip button or should I stick with the hit stick?"

I think I just answered my own question with a perfectly-timed press of the L button and a forced fumble on a punt return.

I also noticed today that liberal use of the stiff arm has really helped me when running. There is still some Mario Running(tm), but if you get it a lot you need to lay off the speed burst and juke when you come up on the pile or hit the shoulder charge.

[Badgun]

One thing worth mentioning here is the fact that there was a very accurate roster update for Madden the day it hit the stores. I had no problem starting my franchise with the Cowboys knowing that very few changes will be made down the road.

ESPN's rosters were weak to begin with, omitting several Cowboys who were on the team last year so even though I started a franchise, I have quit playing it and won't start it over until Sega puts out a roster update. By then I could feasibly be into my 3rd or 4th season on Madden. For us franchise buffs, this is huge.

I've always pulled for the underdog and I've been pulling for Sega to knock Madden off for the last 3 or 4 years. Despite the fact that they have put out a beautiful, well playing game, Sega has dropped the ball bigtime on these supposed updates. They promised an update to fix the online problems on July 26th and another update on August 6th. As of August 14th, neither update has surfaced. The reason most developers don't give dates is because the uncertainty of one fix causing another larger problem. This makes it all the more puzzling why Sega would give dates and then not stick to them.

As for Sega's roster updates, they are usually few and far between and very inaccurate. I remember waiting for their ESPN Baseball update and when it finally came out months after the game was released, it was a joke.

So while I really like ESPN Football, the rosters and shoddy programming in franchise mode have made me put it aside for now. Madden's franchise is brilliant and the rosters are very accurate which has me playing at least a couple games a day now.

Hopefully, Sega can issue a patch like they did for the hockey game that fixes some of these problems. If not, I can't see playing ESPN for anything more than a online game.

[Zeppo]

I think there is a specific strip button, but I can't remember which it is. Probably the white or black button. But in their little 'new this year' video, they mention the strip specifically, although the example is a DE stripping the QB.

I've only caused a couple fumbles on punt returns with the hit stick when the opponent forgets to call fair catch. Otherwise, i haven't seen any, but I'm not complaining. I know they're in there, and will happen eventually.

As to receivers dropping balls, I've had a few drops in Madden. But drops are one thing I find nearly impossible for a video game to model really well. If they never drop a ball, that's unrealistic. But every time a receiver flat out drops one, the player will complain 'wtf?' since he did nothing wrong (or right, for that matter) to cause the drop. But that's just it, IRL guys drop balls, and you say 'wtf?' but you don't complain that it's unrealistic that he dropped it, you can see his hands miss the ball. And not to mention IRL some of the insane catches we see these guys make. If those catches happen in a video game, it's like 'that's ridiculous,' but when it happens IRL, the more ridiculous it is the better! I dunno, but it seems to me a video game can never win with things like dropped passes, or say in a hoops game, a long shot with a hand in the face. Sometimes guys hit those IRL, but if it happens in a video game, I'm all 'wtf?'

I'm not sure I agree about not having to think football in Madden as much as in ESPN. In ESPN, I basically call a play, and then if it doesn't look good a the line, I can audible to something else, and that's pretty much what I do. In Madden, I can shift the formation to try to see the D react, use motion, I almost feel like I have to provoke the D into letting me know what they are up to. Audibles aren't quite as cool, in that they will be in different formations, but they aren't by any means useless, and then you can shift THAT formation as well (if you have time). Add in the playmaker ability to switch the run direction, or do the hot routes or the playmaker quick-hot route, adn I feel like on any play in Madden I can find the thing the D is giving me, and take advantage. But, now on D with the simple and easy to use adjustments, the other player can make changes as I make changes, and I find it can be a game of cat and mouse. Nothing is as satisfying to me as getting the D to move around to cover the strong side and then runnning to the weak side; setting them up and then taking advantage. I guess I'm saying I am thinking a lot of football, but more of it is at the line of scrimmage than in ESPN.

One thing that really gets on my nerves in Madden is how you only get 25sec to call a play after a change of posession, or a time out. It's ridiculous!!!! This is an NFL game after all, in the NFL after a change of posession, they have these things they call COMMERCIALS (the 'official time out'), and you have upwards of 2 minutes to call that first play. And this after NCAA gives you 90sec after a time out. Unbelievable. In ESPN, the clock just doesn't start for a while after a change in posession. It's really driving me nuts in Madden.

On the other hand, I don't know if I can live without the option routes from now on. These are handled superbly in Madden. The receiver doesn't make the right choice every time, but when it's clear which choice is best, they make the right one. And having that option in there really opens up the offense. Very cool, very much NFL-style, I like it.

[Toper]

Guys:

You've got to admit that the civility and rationality that we've all shown in the impressions threads for ESPN and Madden indicate that both of these games are excellent, and that neither has a significant edge over the other.

This has been the best, most informative series of impressions threads that I've seen since I started coming to DSP about five years ago or so.

Round of applause for everyone. Props, boys.

Take care,
PK

I agree. I think it just proves that most of us here are pretty reasonable. We call it like it is regardless of who makes the games, and we give our honest impressions. I don't know how many times I've read "I don't like this or that but ESPN is a great game" or "I prefer Madden, but ESPN is great too."

Looks like people here have "grown up" alot since the Baseball releases!

Toper

[Toper]

I'm playing much better on AM level using the Madden LONG camera angle. I can read the defense much better and actually see my open recievers. Hit Faulk in the open for an 87 yard TD in a game today. By far my best play with Madden 2k5. I also don't see any speed cheats on the AM setting. Faulk pulled away from the defense easily on my 87 yard scamper... nice!

Now, if I could only get my defense to stop the pass, I wouldn't be losing all the time. Practice.....


Todd

I've been using the classic cam in widescreen/16:9 mode (even tho my TV is 4:3). You gotta go to the ps2/xbox startup menus to enable this.

The players look a little skinnier (which I like) and you get to see a wider view of the field, as well as get to admire the stadium/sideline dressing. Also, the kick meter shows up more "circular" instead of the confusing oblong oval it currently is, which makes the kicking game a bit easier.

I've done this for both madden and ncaa this year and it's really enhanced the game for me.

Toper

[XXXIV]

Looks like people here have "grown up" alot since the Baseball releases!

Toper

I never actually saw the lefty bug ...........

[Blublub]

Me like. Me like a lot. Last year's did nothing at all for me. But this year it doesn't even feel like Madden, save for the Super Mario running.

Unless there's some hideous problems lurking, looks like it's Madden over ESPN this year for me. Makes life a lot easier with one set of buttons for NCAA and Madden.

[Toper]

Me like. Me like a lot. Last year's did nothing at all for me. But this year it doesn't even feel like Madden, save for the Super Mario running.

Unless there's some hideous problems lurking, looks like it's Madden over ESPN this year for me. Makes life a lot easier with one set of buttons for NCAA and Madden.

Blub,

I'm in the same boat as you.

BTW, how you liking WE8?

Toper

[bdoughty]

Makes life a lot easier with one set of buttons for NCAA and Madden.

That is the reason Madden was sold to a friend today. I have to keep one college and one pro game. Since you can customize the NCAA control to simulate the ESPN defense I am sticking with these. I am enjoying ESPN over Madden and a small, yet importaint part of it has to do with I have the (B) for change players - (A) for sprint embedded in my brain. I am not a big franchise guy and simply prefer the gameplay of ESPN to Madden. I tollerate NCAA because I have no other choice this year.

Hopefully out of the three games everyone will find one or two games that will keep them busy until next year.

[Spooky]

I think there is a specific strip button, but I can't remember which it is. Probably the white or black button. But in their little 'new this year' video, they mention the strip specifically, although the example is a DE stripping the QB.

I've only caused a couple fumbles on punt returns with the hit stick when the opponent forgets to call fair catch. Otherwise, i haven't seen any, but I'm not complaining. I know they're in there, and will happen eventually.

As to receivers dropping balls, I've had a few drops in Madden. But drops are one thing I find nearly impossible for a video game to model really well. If they never drop a ball, that's unrealistic. But every time a receiver flat out drops one, the player will complain 'wtf?' since he did nothing wrong (or right, for that matter) to cause the drop. But that's just it, IRL guys drop balls, and you say 'wtf?' but you don't complain that it's unrealistic that he dropped it, you can see his hands miss the ball. And not to mention IRL some of the insane catches we see these guys make. If those catches happen in a video game, it's like 'that's ridiculous,' but when it happens IRL, the more ridiculous it is the better! I dunno, but it seems to me a video game can never win with things like dropped passes, or say in a hoops game, a long shot with a hand in the face. Sometimes guys hit those IRL, but if it happens in a video game, I'm all 'wtf?'

I'm not sure I agree about not having to think football in Madden as much as in ESPN. In ESPN, I basically call a play, and then if it doesn't look good a the line, I can audible to something else, and that's pretty much what I do. In Madden, I can shift the formation to try to see the D react, use motion, I almost feel like I have to provoke the D into letting me know what they are up to. Audibles aren't quite as cool, in that they will be in different formations, but they aren't by any means useless, and then you can shift THAT formation as well (if you have time). Add in the playmaker ability to switch the run direction, or do the hot routes or the playmaker quick-hot route, adn I feel like on any play in Madden I can find the thing the D is giving me, and take advantage. But, now on D with the simple and easy to use adjustments, the other player can make changes as I make changes, and I find it can be a game of cat and mouse. Nothing is as satisfying to me as getting the D to move around to cover the strong side and then runnning to the weak side; setting them up and then taking advantage. I guess I'm saying I am thinking a lot of football, but more of it is at the line of scrimmage than in ESPN.

One thing that really gets on my nerves in Madden is how you only get 25sec to call a play after a change of posession, or a time out. It's ridiculous!!!! This is an NFL game after all, in the NFL after a change of posession, they have these things they call COMMERCIALS (the 'official time out'), and you have upwards of 2 minutes to call that first play. And this after NCAA gives you 90sec after a time out. Unbelievable. In ESPN, the clock just doesn't start for a while after a change in posession. It's really driving me nuts in Madden.

On the other hand, I don't know if I can live without the option routes from now on. These are handled superbly in Madden. The receiver doesn't make the right choice every time, but when it's clear which choice is best, they make the right one. And having that option in there really opens up the offense. Very cool, very much NFL-style, I like it.

Great impressions Zepp! I know I experienced these same thing while playing against you.

The 25 seconds after side exchanges is really annoying but I will just have to adapt.

Regarding the dropped passes, I have seen quite a few. But, I totally agree with Zeppo here, you have to be rally careful about how to develop the way A.I. handles dropped passes. Too many will cause user frustration, too little is unrealistic. Personally, I think I'd rather have too little and just have the DB's play tougher and then have to work harder at making good passes, than too many drops that the CPU determines.

[Toper]

Personally, I think I'd rather have too little and just have the DB's play tougher and then have to work harder at making good passes, than too many drops that the CPU determines.

I share the same belief you do here...I ended up maxing the wr catch slider in Ncaa so that I get the satisfaction of the wr catching the ball if it hits their hands, but in turn maxing the the ai pass deflect slider and raising ai defense to actually make it harder to HIT their hands (hope that makes sense).

Toper

[matthewk]

Stripping the ball - Hold down the black button to try and strip the ball

I've seen a few people mention "shifting formations". Waht is that and how do I do it? I checked out the offense in Madden 101 and didn't see it mentioned. This isn;t just sending a guy in motion, is it?

[Alan_Bernardo]

Stripping the ball - Hold down the black button to try and strip the ball

I've seen a few people mention "shifting formations". Waht is that and how do I do it? I checked out the offense in Madden 101 and didn't see it mentioned. This isn;t just sending a guy in motion, is it?

If you look on page 7 of the manual you'll see the key for shifting formations.

It's RT (right trigger) and D-Pad (each direction gives you a different formation).


Alanb

[Alan_Bernardo]

I'm playing much better on AM level using the Madden LONG camera angle. I can read the defense much better and actually see my open recievers. Hit Faulk in the open for an 87 yard TD in a game today. By far my best play with Madden 2k5. I also don't see any speed cheats on the AM setting. Faulk pulled away from the defense easily on my 87 yard scamper... nice!

Now, if I could only get my defense to stop the pass, I wouldn't be losing all the time. Practice.....


Todd

In the end, I think the Zoom camera is the best, especially when it comes to finding holes to run through.

My rushing game has improved since going to this camera.

It would be nice to have a hot key of some sort to change the camera on the fly. Zoom is good for rushing but not as good for passing.


Alanb