'Official' Madden 2005 Impressions Thread...

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:24 pm

question. with ESPN you can jump over the pile at the goal line. can you do that in madden?

i bought the game today...at work though. ESPN is great, but i really have not been challenged by it.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:27 pm

My brief comments from limited gameplay.

I love ESPN football. Let me begin by saying that because I didn't want to like Madden.

It's good...very good. Is it better than ESPN? Not sure yet, I'll know by the weekend. The passing game in Madden feels exceptionally solid to me, and I already prefer it to ESPN. This is surprising because I always found MAXIMUM PASSING in NFL2k/ESPN to be the most realistic and rewarding system, and I hated the "lob it up and pray for the best" feeling that I got when playing Madden ('03). The control in Madden for leading/over/underthrowing a reciever is perfect, and the ability to have a reciever 'break' off a route by putting the ball elsewhere is exceptional.

The running game, for me, is not as good as ESPN. In ESPN, I see the holes and I'm able to hit them. RB's respond with instant movement to my button-pushes. In Madden, the holes are not as visible and things just look 'crowded' on runs up the middle. Also, the response to jukes etc. seems to lag behind my input. Oddly, playing Madden's mini-camp reveals a running game that feels AWESOME, but I don't get the same feeling in-game. Maybe it's just that I need to get better...

Madden has NOTHING on ESPN in terms of presentation. There's virtually no auto-replay, and even when there is it's usually displayed behind the play-call screens so you don't see anything! The overall look of the game, like most EA titles, is CONSISTENT. Unrealistic, but consistent. The stadiums, grass, fans, and players all look equally 'cartoonish'. Pop in ESPN and you'll suddenly become a huge fan of Triple-Pass Rendering. Player proportions are better than in the past, but can't hold a candle to ESPN.

I didn't dive into Franchise Mode, but from a brief perusal of the lay-out etc. it seems quite thorough and compelling, though I am a fan (rare, apparently) of ESPN's weekly training system...

The odd thing that struck me while switching back and forth, is that Madden offers better crowd noises, and the authenticty of Michaels and Madden's voices. Add in the exciting gameplay, and I felt that the 'branding' of the games tells you A LOT about their content. ESPN is like a good Sunday afternoon/evening game. Madden is like Monday Night Football.

ESPN is the girlfriend you've had for years. REAL pretty, and good in the sack, but you've got that been there/done that feeling. Madden is the girl at the bar...Not nearly as pretty, but exciting and different. It feels like cheating, and it is...I feel like I should apologize to Visual Concepts because they've been there for me for years, and I'm screwing around with another partner...

I'll let you know over the next week whether it's just a fling, or a serious threat to my relationship with ESPN.

PS> This does not mean I cheat on my wife...(in case you're ever reading this honey...)

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:39 pm

Sport73 wrote:The running game, for me, is not as good as ESPN. In ESPN, I see the holes and I'm able to hit them. RB's respond with instant movement to my button-pushes. In Madden, the holes are not as visible and things just look 'crowded' on runs up the middle. Also, the response to jukes etc. seems to lag behind my input. Oddly, playing Madden's mini-camp reveals a running game that feels AWESOME, but I don't get the same feeling in-game. Maybe it's just that I need to get better...

My take is a little different. When was the last time you watched a football game from behind? Likely the XFL (RIP)...with their crazy ass camera angles. The line doesn't spread out in real life like it does in ESPN. That 'crowded' look that you describe is how it really is in real life. ESPN exaggerates a little bit in the running game so as to make it more fun and like you're following blockers. I think Madden is a little more realistic in the 'true' amount of space that the RB's have.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:43 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Sport73 wrote:The running game, for me, is not as good as ESPN. In ESPN, I see the holes and I'm able to hit them. RB's respond with instant movement to my button-pushes. In Madden, the holes are not as visible and things just look 'crowded' on runs up the middle. Also, the response to jukes etc. seems to lag behind my input. Oddly, playing Madden's mini-camp reveals a running game that feels AWESOME, but I don't get the same feeling in-game. Maybe it's just that I need to get better...
My take is a little different. When was the last time you watched a football game from behind? Likely the XFL (RIP)...with their crazy ass camera angles. The line doesn't spread out in real life like it does in ESPN. That 'crowded' look that you describe is how it really is in real life. ESPN exaggerates a little bit in the running game so as to make it more fun and like you're following blockers. I think Madden is a little more realistic in the 'true' amount of space that the RB's have.

That is a good point DB. It is a freakin' mess up there in those lines of scrimmage! Most of the time they are plowwing through the smallest of gaps or hurdling over some fallen bodies.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:48 pm

Does EA and Madden have any online league setup or web based stat tracking this year more along the lines of ESPN? I know there was some online stuff last year with Madden and NCAA, but i don't remember it being very extensive.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:50 pm

I'm all for realism, and I don't dispute that Madden's depiction is probably more accurate. But, it needs to translate into gameplay. A RB on the ground has all of his senses to use as he hunts out even the smallest of holes. With my TV, Xbox and controller, it's little more difficult to 'see' those nooks and crannies (mmmmm. English Muffin). That translates into shorter than 'realistic' runs, as compared to ESPN which amends the separation of players in order to achieve holes that can be more easily targeted with a controller.

Again, Madden feels superb in Mini-camp mode, so I might just need to improve my play.

Initial impression, will post more tonight.

Toper · Post by **Toper** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:54 pm

Spooky wrote:Just thought of a good analogy to compare the control between ESPN and Madden 2005: (although I might be the only one who really understands this... )

Did anyone every play/compare the Madden games for BOTH the SNES and the Genesis? There was a HUGE difference in the feel of the gameplay/control between the consoles versions. The SNES, while having a bit better graphics, did not have comfortable 'feel' to it. It seemed a bit 'stiff'. Then playing the same years version on the Genesis felt more 'fluid' and 'three dimentional'. I remember hearing how Sega's console was better for sports games but never understood why until I tried Madden for both systems.

Did anyone else ever experience this?

Anyway, this is kind of how I compare ESPN to Madden (feel wise). Even on the same console (X-Box). I guess you could say ESPN feels more 'stiff' compared to Madden's 'fluidness'.

I absolutely experienced this...the genesis versions of easports games absolutely killed the snes versions in the gameplay/control department...they just felt "better".

I do feel that this is repeating itself on this generation of consoles, as well (where easports programs their games to run better on the ps2 than the xbox, for some stupid reason).

Toper

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:34 pm

>>>The fact that you can juke, spin and dodge players in the open field. Those controls in ESPN are basically worthless and you are relegated to running over people.<<<

DB:

I haven't played Madden yet, as I think I'm going to wait for a rental, but I disagree with your assessment of the running controls in ESPN. In fact, using jukes, dodges and shoulder charges always seem to help me pick up a few extra yards, and I find those controls pretty intuitive.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:38 pm

I know I'm in a miniscule minority, but one of the reasons I'm leaning toward keeping ESPN as my football game is a feature that was hyped last year but unloved by most except me: First Person Football.

Call me stupid, nuts, etc., but I really like playing FPF for a change of pace.

Still, I'm eager to rent Madden.

Take care,
PK

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:57 pm

PK,
I'm with you on the FPF front. I love that feature and didn't find it to be a gimmick at all. It adds a whole new element to the game and is the perfect change of pace every once and a while. The ability to jump in and out of it this year is really nice. We'll have to hook up soon and play some ESPN.

And I'd love to ball with one of you fellas in Madden soon.

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:00 pm

Even as a diehard Madden fan for years I wonder what Madden will give me to offset the VIP profile system in ESPN, which I really, really love.

Also, in ESPN, I love the "frequently used plays" screen and the fact that when you click in the thumbstick at the playcalling screen you can see how many times you've called the play and how well it's worked.

Randy

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:12 pm

RandyM wrote:Even as a diehard Madden fan for years I wonder what Madden will give me to offset the VIP profile system in ESPN, which I really, really love.

Also, in ESPN, I love the "frequently used plays" screen and the fact that when you click in the thumbstick at the playcalling screen you can see how many times you've called the play and how well it's worked.

Randy

Damn good points, Randy. I haven't even used VIP yet, but I'm really eager to do it. And the Frequently Used Plays feature is ace, too.

Everyone is lucky that there are two really good NFL games this year.

Take care,
PK

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:20 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Sport73 wrote:The running game, for me, is not as good as ESPN. In ESPN, I see the holes and I'm able to hit them. RB's respond with instant movement to my button-pushes. In Madden, the holes are not as visible and things just look 'crowded' on runs up the middle. Also, the response to jukes etc. seems to lag behind my input. Oddly, playing Madden's mini-camp reveals a running game that feels AWESOME, but I don't get the same feeling in-game. Maybe it's just that I need to get better...
My take is a little different. When was the last time you watched a football game from behind? Likely the XFL (RIP)...with their crazy ass camera angles.

"He hate Me" says hi.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:22 pm

You should remember people play these games different ways.

For example I think VIP is cool, I have used it a total of two times however. Why you ask?

If I want to play someone I go online. If I don't want to play someone I am playing franchise. If I find myself using a VIP to scout an opponent, I check my priorities in life

Franchise is the most important thing to me and Madden takes ESPN, b*tch slaps it and throws it in a gutter.

Seriously, Randy & PK if you guys have not read enough by TCrouch or others to convince you to try Madden, you probably shouldn't. Because the area where Madden shines is gameplay and VIP's, FPF, Cribs, Favorites and other iteams while all cool are not Madden's selling points.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:38 pm

Didn't Pk say he was eager to rent Madden? I do believe he did. I feel the same way as him as well as others. It all comes down to personal preference in terms of gameplay and features. Having not played Madden yet, I'm still quite comfortable in ESPN's corner.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:48 pm

>>>Seriously, Randy & PK if you guys have not read enough by TCrouch or others to convince you to try Madden, you probably shouldn't.<<<

Dan:

Terry is a gamer and a guy for whom I have a lot of respect in here, but he's not Jim Jones.

I'm not going to drink any flavor of Kool-Aid, especially when it costs $50, simply on the word of one guy. I know others have praised Madden, too, but it's not like I hate ESPN. I don't, and it's really growing on me as I learn to make pre-snap adjustments on both sides of the ball.

I'm eager to rent Madden and decide for myself.

Take care,
PK

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:51 pm

Danimal wrote: Franchise is the most important thing to me and Madden takes ESPN, b*tch slaps it and throws it in a gutter.

That is the main reason I'm hyped for Madden. VC really screwed up the franchise this year. It's actually hampering my enjoyment of the game in single-player mode.

What I like about these impressions is that it sounds like Madden offers a very different experience than ESPN. That makes it easier for me to justify getting two pro titles this year and believe that I will play both.

So thanks for the impressions. I am sold and will be grabbing this after I get back from vacation.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:02 pm

In reading over my posts, I don't mean to come across as jumping ship on ESPN (although I did trade it in for Madden

) and sounding like Madden is far superior. I really LOVED some of the features in ESPN and the overall package, especially for $20, is amazing. I guess I was just eager for that madden feel and as soon as started playing it, I realized that is felt better to me control wise. I missed that feeling.

Again, while ESPN is great and does have some features that I will truly miss (although I am not sure how much I would actually use them to their fullest), I tend to feel as if I am ever so slightly fighting the controls and feel as if I am moving the players and inputting the commands with no actual three dimensional feel ('ever so slightly' being the key words there) - hence my comparison to the SNES vs. Genesis days.

I am not as picky or deep as many posters here so there are probably issues on both titles that will never truly bother me. That said, the feeling of the control and smoothness in Madden had me immediately, hook, line & sinker last night. I am glad I decided to buy it and am REALLY looking forward to getting it online!

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:20 pm

Nothing that has been posted here has really convinced me that Madden has done anything better than the previous years.

running - sounds like every madden get away from your blocks and juke, spin you way for games of 6 or more 20 yard runs.

passing - I'm tired of seeing LBs knock down passes on plays they really shouldn't get too. Doesn't seem that is has been fixed.

Defense - I'm waiting to here that the defense is tough because it cheats like NCAA. I'm tired of seeing 10-30 games of 300 yards in Madden. The AI doesn't use dump off passes like it should.

Differen't team styles. After playing ESPN, you can tell the difference between Champ Bailey and Chumb Boobley. Some of the reviews say this is fixed but most of the time reviewers see things that aren't really there.

I'm waiting just like PK, although I will probably trade NCAA in for a $20 Madden. But so far other than those that have shown dislike for ESPN and are disguised fanboys of Madden, there's really nothing coming out that proves Madden has made the improvments that will make me want to play more than a season. Usually, I can play 16 games but after that they all feel the same and play the same.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:22 pm

pk500 wrote:>>>Seriously, Randy & PK if you guys have not read enough by TCrouch or others to convince you to try Madden, you probably shouldn't.<<<

Dan:

Terry is a gamer and a guy for whom I have a lot of respect in here, but he's not Jim Jones.

I'm not going to drink any flavor of Kool-Aid, especially when it costs $50, simply on the word of one guy. I know others have praised Madden, too, but it's not like I hate ESPN. I don't, and it's really growing on me as I learn to make pre-snap adjustments on both sides of the ball.

I'm eager to rent Madden and decide for myself.

Take care,
PK

No, you are misunderstanding me. By all means rent it and decide for yourself. All I meant was if you have a football game you enjoy, and all the comments about the gameplay aren't making you say "self, I need to go buy this" then perhaps your money would be well spent on RS:BA so we could play that

I meant no offense, I am keeping all 3 football games at this point. I was just trying to help, sorry for the confusion.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:26 pm

Double post sorry, slow boards today.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:36 pm

JRod wrote:Nothing that has been posted here has really convinced me that Madden has done anything better than the previous years.

running - sounds like every madden get away from your blocks and juke, spin you way for games of 6 or more 20 yard runs.

Wrong, doesn't work like that this year.

passing - I'm tired of seeing LBs knock down passes on plays they really shouldn't get too. Doesn't seem that is has been fixed.

Not sure yet. Doesn't happen as much it seems.

Defense - I'm waiting to here that the defense is tough because it cheats like NCAA. I'm tired of seeing 10-30 games of 300 yards in Madden. The AI doesn't use dump off passes like it should.

So wrong it is not even funny, the defense doesn't cheat like NCAA if you read any of the impression threads you would see that but whatever.

Differen't team styles. After playing ESPN, you can tell the difference between Champ Bailey and Chumb Boobley. Some of the reviews say this is fixed but most of the time reviewers see things that aren't really there.

Really, I can't all the Db's look like idiots to me in ESPN.

But so far other than those that have shown dislike for ESPN and are disguised fanboys of Madden, there's really nothing coming out that proves Madden has made the improvments that will make me want to play more than a season.

Now if I made a statement like that Bdoughty would be all over me. Hey BD!

I'm sorry but that statement makes you look like the pot calling the kettle.

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:41 pm

"Chumb Boobley" didn't the chargers draft him in 93?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:52 pm

So far I will say Madden is the game I was expecting NCAA to be........

As Far as ESPN vs Madden.......they are different.......until I get more time with Madden I wont be able to say which one I like better.......I have had alot of time with ESPN and have seen it without its make up.......I need to catch EA in the morning.........

NCAA is a 2AMer..........Not that thats so bad.........Some of the greatest nights Ive had had been with 2 AMers.........

rubba19 · Post by **rubba19** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:30 pm

I finally got to play a game KC(me) vs. NO...

Was playing really well at the beginning and hit Dante Hall with an 83-yard bomb....that was easy......because the game was on rookie (oops). Changed to All-Pro and the CPU play improved.

Won the game 14-7.

+ Plays very smooth
+ Like the playbook with plays designed for player (Gonzalez option)
+ Al and John were not horribly irritating
+ AI very good offensively, defensively, and 2-minute
+ Challenge sequence done very well

- Couldn't get used to controls (Flubbed up number of plays due to this)
- (xbox) graphics are friggin horrible! Inexcusable!

If you have the time and money, get it.

All in all, it's a very good game, but with NHL, NBA, and assorted other games in the near future, I'm going to keep ESPN for this year and save the $30 toward another game. I may pick up Madden for the PC on the cheap and give it a shot.