ESPN 2K5 Impressions

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:10 pm

Danimal wrote:On default All-Pro I am averaging 112 yards a game with the Bears new RB (sorry forgot the name and I am at work..Jones I think)

First of all, yes it is Thomas Jones...former Arizona Cardinal. Second, I'd venture to guess that teams last year averaged around 100 yards per game rushing. I don't know the exact number but I'd imagine it's around 100.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:10 pm

Danimal wrote:I totally disagree with that, I am running to the outside at will. I don't think I have called an outside run that has gotten less then 5 yards.On default All-Pro I am averaging 112 yards a game with the Bears new RB (sorry forgot the name and I am at work..Jones I think)

Sorry, I should have elaborated. I meant against human competition. I don't play ESPN (or any sports game) against the CPU so I don't know what doesn't or doesn't work against them. Against humans, I can tell you for sure that running outside isn't overly effective if you play remotely decent defense. Last year if a guy was running outside, you had to specifically call a handful of plays and then manually move yourself to that side to shut it down. That is not the case this year fortunately. I've played a number of games against humans and nobody has gotten any cheap stuff to the outside like they did last year. Any gains they got, they actually deserved. The pursuit is better and they don't break as many tackles in comparison to last year.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:40 pm

Danimal wrote:
wco81 wrote:Actually, big plays were a pretty common way to score in 2K4, whether long runs or short/medium passes with a big RAC.

Even simple swing passes to RBs had big play potential, not just moving the chains potential.
Do you think that is a good thing?

I'm just concerned because every game I have played the scores were big plays. I have yet to have a team have to go at it from the red zone because we all score from 30+ yards out. Maybe it was this way last year but I don't remember it.

Also the QB completition percentage seems a bit high for myself and the AI.

Again before I get bashed, this is a small sampeling of games. I'm sure this all can be adjusted with sliders and it is my preference in play style so YMMV.

No I thought it was too easy. A lot of these plays, I was just dumping the ball because the OLB on that side was blitzing. Well a back like Rickey would catch the short pass, go down 10 years, break one or more tackles, and then keep running. Even when there wasn't a blitz, he could break an LB tackle and take it way longer than he should have.

But if the tackle breaking is fixed, this shouldn't be an issue.

I thought 2K3 was hard to score by either short or long plays. even on a breakaway, ballcarriers got chased down, even by linemen and LBs who shouldn't have caught fast backs or WRs. So in 2K4, you got a lot of RAC and big plays.

But the strategy of moving the chains didn't always work. A lot of the games were statistically a ton of yards and scoring but few first downs, meaning a lot of big plays with a lot of 3 and outs tossed in between those big plays. Kind of like how NCAA is this year as the bombs are still there but not the short passing game.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:25 pm

Ive put the weekly planning feature the same place I put the hotdog selling in Madden.........

As for the game......On All Pro.....Ive played 2 preseason games and I suck....34-17 and 31 -13.....I have had a couple of 10-20 yd runs outside but nothing like last year where Id rack up 200+ on a consistent basis..........Again...... I must really suck cause I get nailed alot in the backfield.......Maybe marshall sould retire??????

Im getting sacked alot......Im slow..or Bulger is...what can I say.....I need to get used to the drops and the qb evade....I hope

My favorite plays from last year.....well.....

someone stole them.....I will have to find new ones....

The crib thing is screwed up.........They were giving me crib points for the sacks I was giving up..........what up with that?????????

Why havent they just given up on there stupid button to receiver corrolation and do it EA style???? Im dumb and easily confused ..I dont wanna use the L for the left WR and the B for the right WR.......and then have it changed on another play........

the graphics have made it hard for me too lokk at NCAA......CMON EA make a little effort to move your visuals into the 21st Century on the XBOX.........

Finished year one of my Michigan dynasty with a loss to Ohio state(I blame ESPN screwed my feel for NCAA)........Bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.shattered my Rose Bowl dreams....

and my shot at the Natl title all in one shot..........Ill be back....but not for a while.....

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:13 pm

Well after a few games, I'm fairly sure that ESPN is about what I expected. I'm not overly impressed, just because it's basically last years version with a few more animations and tweaks. I'd be disappointed if it was a 50 dollar game because it really hasn't improved that much. That's not a bad thing, because I loved last years, it's just a little different.

I like that I can't run over everyone with Ricky and I love the new throwing system (better animations, ball physics, etc.). Those were my gripes last year and they seem to have been addressed.

20 dollars well spent.

I had two runs called back because of penalty, and the yardage didn't come off my running backs total, so I haven't seen the bug yet.

The game feels really really fast right now since I've been playing NCAA for the past week. This game really puts NCAA to shame in terms of fluidness and framerate. It looks 20x better and it runs smoother (how the f*ck does that happen?). I can pretty much count on the fact that ESPN will be in my machine more than NCAA and I never have been able to say that about any football game in the past 8 or so years since NCAA has been released. It always got a majority of my playtime.

BTW, the dude at Gamestop said they got in 75 Xbox copies because 60 of them were preorders. I have never heard of an ESPN/VC game getting that many preorders. They only had 3 Xbox copies left when I got there. Whew.

gabeschw · Post by **gabeschw** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:55 pm

Does anyone have custom camera setting that they like? The only real annoyance I have with the game so far (and I had the same problem with 2k4) is that the default camera doesn't let you see the outside areas of the field close to the line of scrimmage (unless you turn Pass Play Zoom Out on, in which case the camera is a little too far away for my liking during pass plays). This is a problem for short out routes. I ended up switching back and forth between various settings a lot last year, but I'm curious if anyone has something that works well.

The good news is that this is the only real problem I have with the game so far, although I've only played two full games.

vader29 · Post by **vader29** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:59 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote: BTW, the dude at Gamestop said they got in 75 Xbox copies because 60 of them were preorders. I have never heard of an ESPN/VC game getting that many preorders. They only had 3 Xbox copies left when I got there. Whew.

They probably got so many preorders for it when it was first listed at being only 19.99 and everyone thinking it was a price mistake and preordered to get in on the deal before it was fixed, I never preorder games in store anymore but did for ESPN thinking it was an error.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:13 pm

vader29 wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote: BTW, the dude at Gamestop said they got in 75 Xbox copies because 60 of them were preorders. I have never heard of an ESPN/VC game getting that many preorders. They only had 3 Xbox copies left when I got there. Whew.
They probably got so many preorders for it when it was first listed at being only 19.99 and everyone thinking it was a price mistake and preordered to get in on the deal before it was fixed, I never preorder games in store anymore but did for ESPN thinking it was an error.

Yeah there was some confusion based on disbelief

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:20 pm

One game with everything on default, my Skins 10, Cleveland 3 in preseason:

- Best presentation and cutscenes of any sports game ever. But, I'm noticing a lot of slowdown in some of the cutscenes, particularly when the transparent type starts flying - this on my Xbox with the good drive.
- Gameplay sure feels like last year, and to a large extent a lot like the old 2K on DC.
- What's with those exaggerated cuts the backs take? Looks like they're flailing all over the place when all I want them to do is hit the damn hole.
- Runs to the outside are very easy.
- FGs seem too easy - what happened to the moving arrow?
- I still hate the inverted triangle polygonish look of the players from a distance. This has always been my biggest beef with the series.
- Fog effects, well, suck. My first game was in the rain and fog and it was artificial looking as all hell.
- What the hell is up with the on-field chatter? Sounds like it's being spoken into a can from close range.
- Hmmm...a LOT of drops so far.
- I know this is just me, but it was the same last year and I hate it - I end up with a ton of roughing the passer penalties since I think I am controlling a DB when I dive to break up the pass, but actually I am controlling a lineman who then dives into the QB out of view.
- Doesn't seem to be enough offensive plays. Unless I'm missing something, the Skins don't have a single FB run. Hard to believe that a Gibbs-coached team doesn't have one FB run up the gut in the playbook.

It's probably just because it's TOO DAMNED EARLY FOR AN NFL GAME, but I really don't have much interest in playing again for a while. No doubt this will get more time when the season starts, but for now it's pretty ho-hum. I have a strange urge to pop NCAA back in, but it's probably just that the pro game is boring as hell.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:23 pm

The gameplay issues that you mention are gone when you actually bump the difficulty up to the 3rd grade level. When you play on the kindergarden level, things are a little easy usually.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:30 pm

Who you talkin' to DB, me? I only mentioned two strictly gameplay issues and that was the ease of running to the outside and the drops. I'm sure the former will be cured at the higher difficulty levels but I doubt the latter. Something about those silly uncalled dekes by the backs really bugs me - I hope these can be made to go away somehow.

Oops, yes, and the field goals and anything else I mentioned as "too easy." No doubt these will go away on higher levels - actually I didn't even bother to look what the default level was.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:35 pm

Blublub wrote:Who you talkin' to DB, me? I only mentioned two strictly gameplay issues and that was the ease of running to the outside and the drops. I'm sure the former will be cured at the higher difficulty levels but I doubt the latter. Something about those silly uncalled dekes by the backs really bugs me - I hope these can be made to go away somehow.

Its definately harder to get outside on all pro.....D just reacts alot faster...... and if youve done it beforesuccesfully........seems the D catches on......

I think the dekes are a BS artificial way to stop the backs from making that on the dime cut.........One day they will just fix the f***in problem not put makeup on it.

The drops I havent noticed much but that could be because I just finished a season of NCAA ....where the drops were a mile a minute

EDIT: Just won crib award for no drops in game with 15 attempt min....

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:26 pm

Blublub, I just played a game with the Skins and there is a FB run up the middle. I forgot where it is, but it's there somewhere.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:16 pm

Well after about 12 games I have finally gotten past the "wow" factor of the presentation and have come to the conclusion that it is either too early for football, or none of these games are much fun for me anymore.

As DB said this is the same game as last year with some minor tweaks to gameplay. VC was smart and new that the presentation is what got people excited last year and they amped that up.

But I am just not having fun, I wasn't having a load of fun with NCAA and now I'm not having much fun with ESPN after a dozen games.

Don't get me wrong it is a good game, I liked last years version. But I don't think I have the energy to learn all these controls over again. I also am not real crazy about how the players react to my controls, I know it is more realistic but I am having a hell of a time playing defense. In fact I do better if I just call the play and drop the controller.

I guess I will try playing online with you guys and see if that brings up my spirits, but I lost my interest in about 24 hours.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:19 pm

I have a feeling that was a major reason for the huge price drop. They probably got 10 users in a room and had them play both games. People would be pissed if this was a 50 dollar game if they played last years. I know I woulda been. A focus group might have swayed the price point more than Madden beating the crap outta VC each year.

But for 20 dollars, it's a great upgrade.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:45 pm

Danimal wrote: Don't get me wrong it is a good game, I liked last years version. But I don't think I have the energy to learn all these controls over again. I also am not real crazy about how the players react to my controls, I know it is more realistic but I am having a hell of a time playing defense. In fact I do better if I just call the play and drop the controller.

I think defense is one thing the 2k series has done better than madden the last few years. I, like you, have a hard time switching every year from EA's defense to Sega's. I think you just have to be more patient with Sega since playing defense is more of a challenge.

Overall I am enjoying the game. Does not blow me out of the water, but one thing I am really enjoying is running the ball. They toned down the broken tackles but it’s refreshing not having the Mario running in a football game. I always buy madden yearly and it’s always my primary football game but ESPN thus far from my experience has done a nice job with this one.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:50 pm

Any way to select the uniform for the CPU short of starting the game with a second controller and then switching to CPU control?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:54 pm

Umm...move the controller to the other side, set it and then move it back.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:11 am

I am pretty happy, although I agree that it's more of a refinement than a big change. Impressions after two games.

STUFF I LIKE:

--Hey look, the CPU throws downfield. Have seen a few deep balls of 30-40 yards.

--CPU attempts and misses long field goals.

--Amazing animations.

--Immersive stadium sounds. Can't wait to add my own music.

--They fixed the sticky fumbles from last year, where players would just suck up loose balls.

--Running is much harder on default All-Pro. They have Thomas Jones modeled just right: he averaged 3.9 ypc in both of my games

--CPU running is much more realistic. A few broken tackles, but mostly big runs are the result of good blocking or poor tackling/pursuit on my part, not 5 defenders getting shoved back by forearms.

--I played two games, against the Pack and against the Ravens. Both teams played very differently, with the Ravens D and rushing game giving me all sorts of problems.

--Despite the crap lip-synching, I love the Berman highlights.

--AI actually subbed out guys near the end of the game.

--The game seems faster on normal, but that could just be post-NCAA-traumatic stress syndrome.

--VIP is an exceptional scouting tool. Will come in very handy both against others and in analyzing my own tendencies.

WHAT I DON"T LIKE

--The commentary is almost exactly the same, down to the damn War and Peace comment that comes up after every other punt.

--There's a bit of tip-itis in the passing game. Sometimes it looks cool, but there's been a couple NCAA-esque moments of tiparoo.

--Passing feels a bit easy at the moment. I will have stretches where I can't pass for crap but then I'll get into a groove even with bad QBs and WRs.

So far, best gaming value of the year. I feel like they did to this what they did to ESPN Baseball, but with better presentation. Honestly, for $20, you cannot go wrong with this game.

FloridaGators · Post by **FloridaGators** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:28 am

Picked it up at the mall with my friend and played some multiplayer.

Some things I like are the graphics and the presentation.

Some things that immediately need to be fixed next year,

Chris Berman...get rid of his image...he's fine talking, it's just so cluttered. Same with Suzy Kolber, or at least get their lips in sync.

The crowd. Needs to be amped up and worked on considerably.

The depth chart and menus in game. Don't like this system where you see the 3 guys and you "move over" your player...make it like EA's system.

Overall though, I am very, very impressed. I really have enjoyed my multiplayer games.

Some of the cut scenes are great, especially the injury ones.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:33 am

Brando70 wrote:There's a bit of tip-itis in the passing game. Sometimes it looks cool, but there's been a couple NCAA-esque moments of tiparoo.

At least they are volleyball-esque...NCAA's tips defied gravity more times than not.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:18 am

I had two runs called back because of penalty, and the yardage didn't come off my running backs total, so I haven't seen the bug yet.

I believe this only happens during a clipping call.

Todd

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:33 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:Umm...move the controller to the other side, set it and then move it back.

Obviously, but it doesn't work. At least in franchise mode you can't select the other team. I tried this in quick play and while you can move it over, select the uniform, the uniform setting doesn't "stick" once the game starts - the CPU goes back to the default setting.

I certainly hope there is a way around this, as it sucks having all those great throwback unis but not being able to have both sides wear them whenever you play the CPU.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:09 am

Well I was really, really anticipating this game so I guess if I say I am underwhelmed then I had it coming.

I like the running game, even though I can't run for sh*t online. It feels like you are earning every yard.

Game looks awesome on a HDTV and sounds even better.

Presentation is again simply top notch. I love all the new animations of the fans as well as the players between plays. I've put in a few custom clips to play at certain times in the game and it is so cool.

The one thing that I don't like and really have never liked about Sega's series is the passing game. Last year I managed to find a few plays that worked more times than not and that allowed me to be fairly successful through the air. This year, however, it is a different story as it seems that almost like NCAA 2005, there are 4 and 5 guys everywhere I throw the ball. If my guys aren't blanketed, then my qb might throw the ball 20 yards over their head. I mean I had some God awful throws last night. I played against my son and he had 4 INTs against me and all of them were just really badly thrown balls. I've never seen this many passes go this far off target in a video football game.

Of course, I haven't read the manual nor have I done the tutorials. I am sure doing both will clear up a lot of stuff for me.

What's up with the online mode? Everytime I go online, I get the message "Blah, blah, the game cannot load your profile, so the current one will be used instead". Then when I finally do connect, I get another message that my rosters don't match the online rosters and before I can play, I'll have to download the roster, but nothing ever downloads. I did get in one game online before the server went down, but I don't remember Sega having trouble in the past.

Anyway, it's a solid game and well worth the $20 and I'm sure once I learn all the many, many button combos I will enjoy it more, but somehow I find myself looking forward to Madden now more than ever.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:13 am

Threw 4 picks in my first game. Hey look at me, I'm in mid-season form already!

I'm happy with my first few games. All last year's game really needed was a bit of tweaking (esp the RB's) and it looks like that's what they've done.