XXXIV wrote:
I was pissed at him too but rewatched today and figured he didnt want his baby catapulted into the castle. Jamie douches again. Then waves goodbye to his secret lover.
The Hound is awesome by definition. Would be cool to see him gut Ramsey or Jamie.
Yes it is the fastest show on TV. Seasons almost over.
I've never watched any show that was an hour long that seemed it was over in 15 minutes.....mission accomplished HBO.....
What's really going to suck is they are saying they are only going to be two more seasons after this one with next year possibly only doing 7 episodes and 6 episodes in the final season.
vader29 wrote:What's really going to suck is they are saying they are only going to be two more seasons after this one with next year possibly only doing 7 episodes and 6 episodes in the final season.
They need to put 5 years between seasons so show viewers get the same experience as book readers...
dougb wrote:
That might be the dictionary definition of a Pyrrhic victory. Not sure why Sansa didn't tell John Snow that Littlefinger might arrive.
This was dreadful, dreadful writing. There's nothing worse than making characters behave stupidly purely to set up a dramatic outcome. Did I mention how bad it was? It was really terrible.
The battle scenes lived up to the hype, but there was no reason they couldn't tighten up the story and keep the characters motivations and behavior rational at the same time. It was the kind of garbage I forgive in Walking Dead because it's pulpy nonsense, but I expect better from this series.
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
dougb wrote:
That might be the dictionary definition of a Pyrrhic victory. Not sure why Sansa didn't tell John Snow that Littlefinger might arrive.
This was dreadful, dreadful writing. There's nothing worse than making characters behave stupidly purely to set up a dramatic outcome. Did I mention how bad it was? It was really terrible.
The battle scenes lived up to the hype, but there was no reason they couldn't tighten up the story and keep the characters motivations and behavior rational at the same time. It was the kind of garbage I forgive in Walking Dead because it's pulpy nonsense, but I expect better from this series.
Well put!
One reviewer I read indicated that Ramsey was too perfect a villain because he always was so tactically adept and such a brilliant schemer. Well if you're faced by complete morons on the other side...
And next time Ryckon, try not running in quite so straight a line!
Doug
"Every major sport has come under the influence of organized crime. FIFA actually is organized crime" - Charles Pierce
I don't know if the Vale Calvary would have made the impact it did if it was available to Snow from the beginning.
Ramsey would have waited to kill all the horses before unleashing the shields.
Instead the Vale waited until all the other Calvary units were gone and they could demolish the shielded infantry.
In the Inside the Episode, one of the creators said this ep. showed Sansa was displaying a strategic side which might be a sign that she's a bigger player than people might give her credit for being.
wco81 wrote:I don't know if the Vale Calvary would have made the impact it did if it was available to Snow from the beginning.
Ramsey would have waited to kill all the horses before unleashing the shields.
Instead the Vale waited until all the other Calvary units were gone and they could demolish the shielded infantry.
In the Inside the Episode, one of the creators said this ep. showed Sansa was displaying a strategic side which might be a sign that she's a bigger player than people might give her credit for being.
Sorry but that's just pretty rubbish on the part of the creators. There's absolutely no reason why you can't have Sansa telling the others about the Vale and hiding them from Ramsey's forces until the critical point. And they would have ended up wasting far fewer of their own precious forces doing so. I'm starting to wonder if the reason they northerner's didn't flock to John and Sansa had more to do with them concluding that the Starks are idiots who end up getting their supporters killed. There'd be something to that.
Doug
"Every major sport has come under the influence of organized crime. FIFA actually is organized crime" - Charles Pierce
wco81 wrote:I don't know if the Vale Calvary would have made the impact it did if it was available to Snow from the beginning.
Ramsey would have waited to kill all the horses before unleashing the shields.
Instead the Vale waited until all the other Calvary units were gone and they could demolish the shielded infantry.
In the Inside the Episode, one of the creators said this ep. showed Sansa was displaying a strategic side which might be a sign that she's a bigger player than people might give her credit for being.
That might be correct, although the fact that Jon was clearly at such a disadvantage numerically means that having the knights would've at least given him an option better than the one he came up with (and admittedly discarded in his moment of stupidity).
I also thought maybe Sansa wanted to play the Littlefinger card late, to prove she was the one who really engineered the capture of Winterfell. That seems more risky than sly, though. If the Boltons held the castle, the Knights themselves wouldn't have been any use and she would've been stuck with Littlefinger without Jon, the Free Folk or their other allies.
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
It just seems that forces which arrive late into a battle, after two forces have slaughtered each other, would have an advantage.
It'll be interesting to see if they planned it that way. Sansa said she didn't know about military strategy but told Jon not to do what Ramsey wants him to do. It could be that LF or one of the Vale generals devised the strategy to hold back and told Sansa not to tell Jon.
wco81 wrote:It just seems that forces which arrive late into a battle, after two forces have slaughtered each other, would have an advantage.
It'll be interesting to see if they planned it that way. Sansa said she didn't know about military strategy but told Jon not to do what Ramsey wants him to do. It could be that LF or one of the Vale generals devised the strategy to hold back and told Sansa not to tell Jon.
Except the force that has the advantage in the current situation is Littlefinger - whose just had the opportunity to allow two potential rivals to weaken or wipe out one another before he intervenes and saves the day. I think dramatically and logically it would have made more sense if they had shots of Sansa looking away frantically for signs of the approaching ally.
Doug
"Every major sport has come under the influence of organized crime. FIFA actually is organized crime" - Charles Pierce
wco81 wrote:There's even one theory that Sansa didn't think highly of Jon's abilities as commander so she held forces back.
Maybe a source of friction in the future.
Considering Jon immediately abandoned his plans to stay back and be more patient, maybe Sansa was right to hide it from him.
The battle rubbed me the wrong way because Jon was incredibly stupid, and won by pure luck and others acting to support him. Also, this is the 3rd time in this show that a battle is virtually lost when the cavalry arrives unbeknownst to the "about-to-be losers." (Tyrion at Blackwater, Jon at the Wall, Jon at Winterfell).
wco81 wrote:There's even one theory that Sansa didn't think highly of Jon's abilities as commander so she held forces back.
Maybe a source of friction in the future.
There is clearly going to be a Sansa/Jon schism to some extent, particularly since Littlefinger is going to want serious recompense for committing the Knights of the Vail.
If the writers think it was sound to imply Sansa withheld troops willfully because of her concerns about Jon, then that's pretty batshit crazy. It's not like she knew the Knights would be decisive. Jon could have been killed before they showed up. Ramsay could have retreated to Winterfell or the disposition of his forces could've mitigated their effectiveness. She couldn't have presumed Jon would freak and ended up encircled by a phalanx which was essentially defenseless with its back turned to a cavalry charge.
Naples is right, from a purely dramatic standpoint, the repeated deus ex machina in these battles has become played out. Even more so in this case, when it was clear weeks ago that the Knights would be the literal cavalry riding to the rescue. It's just lazy.
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
Naples39 wrote:
Considering Jon immediately abandoned his plans to stay back and be more patient, maybe Sansa was right to hide it from him.
I like realistic Sansa. She has come a long way.
As for Jon and Starks doing dumb things? Has not that been a theme from season one with Ned and then later with Rob and his momma? Maybe Ill be upset about the writing when I watch it the second time without the weekend haze and the football fan Starks vs Lannisters f*** you assholes view point.
I did enjoy that beat down at the end and Ramsay's end was too sweet...Stark banners flying! Why I bought my ticket.
P.S> Beautifully filmed. Love an epic battle scene on My TV.
wco81 wrote:I don't know if the Vale Calvary would have made the impact it did if it was available to Snow from the beginning.
Ramsey would have waited to kill all the horses before unleashing the shields.
Instead the Vale waited until all the other Calvary units were gone and they could demolish the shielded infantry.
In the Inside the Episode, one of the creators said this ep. showed Sansa was displaying a strategic side which might be a sign that she's a bigger player than people might give her credit for being.
Sorry but that's just pretty rubbish on the part of the creators. There's absolutely no reason why you can't have Sansa telling the others about the Vale and hiding them from Ramsey's forces until the critical point. And they would have ended up wasting far fewer of their own precious forces doing so. I'm starting to wonder if the reason they northerner's didn't flock to John and Sansa had more to do with them concluding that the Starks are idiots who end up getting their supporters killed. There'd be something to that.
Doug
She seemed rather annoyed that she wasn't part of the war councils, could have been a big F you to the men in charge. Seemed like an ongoing theme for the episode..
