XBox One AND PS4 Discussion

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue May 13, 2014 1:31 pm

The XB1 still will be trailing Sony because the price is the same. If Sony decides to drop the price by $50 then MS screwed up big time. They removed all their advantages from their console. If they had thought this through like tjung said and just gave you a choice MS might not be in the hole they are in right now. I bought a PS4 first and held off on the X1 until MS had announced they removed the DRM.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Tue May 13, 2014 1:35 pm

This pretty much kills any chance of getting Kinect 2 games with any kind of full functionality on a market-wide basis. Kinect will likely be treated as a bolt-on feature like the first Kinect. Pretty happy I bailed on the One last month and got the PS4 for $5 in trade. Here's hoping Sony and Devs build a new Move peripheral to take advantage of the new PS4 camera I just purchased and that Devs have the tools to implement fully functional motion gaming (especially TGC....hint, hint....). Microsoft just put the final nail in the coffin for Kinect 2 and I believe they will PO a ton of customers who had no choice but to get Kinect with the One.....

Also, agree that $399 doesn't go far enough. It may work with those so don't care about hardware specs, but many gamers will look up or hear about the performance gap and choose PS4. And it will now be all about the games with a Kinect-less One as there is little to nothing that MS can bring to the table that Sony can't. For the first time since the original Xbox released in 2001, I am firmly in Sonys camp after seeing what the PS4 is capable of with FIFA14 and soon I will add MLB The Show as well. Way to f*** up your entire Xbox One generation so far MS....and this coming from a former MS diehard loyal customer....

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Tue May 13, 2014 1:52 pm

DivotMaker wrote:This pretty much kills any chance of getting Kinect 2 games with any kind of full functionality on a market-wide basis. Kinect will likely be treated as a bolt-on feature like the first Kinect. Pretty happy I bailed on the One last month and got the PS4 for $5 in trade. Here's hoping Sony and Devs build a new Move peripheral to take advantage of the new PS4 camera I just purchased and that Devs have the tools to implement fully functional motion gaming (especially TGC....hint, hint....). Microsoft just put the final nail in the coffin for Kinect 2 and I believe they will PO a ton of customers who had no choice but to get Kinect with the One.....

Isn't the PS4 camera just a 'bolt-on' as well?

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Tue May 13, 2014 1:59 pm

Yep. However, I am primarily interested in Golf games and was hoping Kinect 2 would give Devs a reason to bring forth much more compelling functionality in EA's next Golf game and eventually The Golf Club. The Move on PS3 in Tiger was a far better implementation of the Golf swing than Kinect was. Now, I believe that Sony will provide better tools for Devs in that they seem to be listening to consumer feedback and appear to be more focused on games more so than MS at this time....

Aristo · Post by **Aristo** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm

greggsand wrote:
DivotMaker wrote:This pretty much kills any chance of getting Kinect 2 games with any kind of full functionality on a market-wide basis. Kinect will likely be treated as a bolt-on feature like the first Kinect. Pretty happy I bailed on the One last month and got the PS4 for $5 in trade. Here's hoping Sony and Devs build a new Move peripheral to take advantage of the new PS4 camera I just purchased and that Devs have the tools to implement fully functional motion gaming (especially TGC....hint, hint....). Microsoft just put the final nail in the coffin for Kinect 2 and I believe they will PO a ton of customers who had no choice but to get Kinect with the One.....
Isn't the PS4 camera just a 'bolt-on' as well?

Forget it, he's rolling.

The thing is, looking at what has been developed and what is coming, Kinect 2 games were already dead. They were just as dead as Move games and the Wii U. If anyone bought an Xbox One for Kinect games, they weren't paying attention. Was there a single game that looked interesting? Kinect Sports nearly never launched, and it was a giant dud.

This move has nothing to do with early adopters are gamers that decided the PS4 has the games they want. This is all about converting their 360 base into Xbox One gamers. Most of them have not bought any of the next gen systems. In fact, the 360 is still going strong. Those gamers aren't playing Kinect games now, and there is nothing in the pipeline that will make them play Kinect games later. And if Microsoft wants to narrow the gap, or at least keep it where it is, they need their base of 360 gamers that want Halo, Gears, Forza, and other exclusive content. They need to make it nice and simple for them to move onto the One with their other friends.

Dropping the price and taking out an unwanted peripheral does that. Making Games With Gold more like PS+ means they can jump in and have Xbox One games from day one. They can keep adding to their gamerscore. They can keep their friends list. The gamers that have not bought early are the smart ones.

Right now, the One has less power, but that is negligible. The PS4 had more power, too.

But the UI, assortment of apps, Twitch and Youtube integration, TV integration along with Snap, exclusive games, essentially the same controller as the 360, and a better online service (or at least one that 360 gamers trust) will all help make the console, at the same price point, an attractive option.

We'll see.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Tue May 13, 2014 2:43 pm

I agree they want to move current 360 users into xb1. For example, my kids and all their friends are on xbl. They like PS4 but the 360 is still their primary system because of XBL features. I don't know why they don't advertise the hell out if XBL with XB1.

skinsfan · Post by **skinsfan** » Tue May 13, 2014 5:10 pm

Macca00 wrote:Now that the Kinect is going to be another add-on/peripheral and not something developers can guarantee is with every console I guess we can say goodbye to any notion that we'll see innovative or even mildly interesting uses of the Kinect in the future.

First the 180 on DRM and now dropping Kinect, how bloody reactionary are Microsoft? I know it's getting outsold by the PS4 but I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, because I very well could be) it's outselling the 360 at the equivalent point in its life cycle). It's also still THE SAME price as the PS4 despite having less powerful hardware and now no Kinect to differentiate it from being 'just another console'.

And yet nobody thinks they are flopping and twitching and that everything is A-OK in MSland.

skinsfan · Post by **skinsfan** » Tue May 13, 2014 5:11 pm

Inuyasha wrote:Damn MS! They may have just won me back. In happy with PS4 but I sure do miss the quality of XBL.

The extra 100 bucks was the only thing holding you back from the XBone?

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Tue May 13, 2014 5:13 pm

skinsfan wrote:
Macca00 wrote:Now that the Kinect is going to be another add-on/peripheral and not something developers can guarantee is with every console I guess we can say goodbye to any notion that we'll see innovative or even mildly interesting uses of the Kinect in the future.

First the 180 on DRM and now dropping Kinect, how bloody reactionary are Microsoft? I know it's getting outsold by the PS4 but I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, because I very well could be) it's outselling the 360 at the equivalent point in its life cycle). It's also still THE SAME price as the PS4 despite having less powerful hardware and now no Kinect to differentiate it from being 'just another console'.
And yet nobody thinks they are flopping and twitching and that everything is A-OK in MSland.

Who here is saying that?

skinsfan · Post by **skinsfan** » Tue May 13, 2014 5:35 pm

DivotMaker wrote:
skinsfan wrote:
Macca00 wrote:Now that the Kinect is going to be another add-on/peripheral and not something developers can guarantee is with every console I guess we can say goodbye to any notion that we'll see innovative or even mildly interesting uses of the Kinect in the future.

First the 180 on DRM and now dropping Kinect, how bloody reactionary are Microsoft? I know it's getting outsold by the PS4 but I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, because I very well could be) it's outselling the 360 at the equivalent point in its life cycle). It's also still THE SAME price as the PS4 despite having less powerful hardware and now no Kinect to differentiate it from being 'just another console'.
And yet nobody thinks they are flopping and twitching and that everything is A-OK in MSland.
Who here is saying that?

Nobody here

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue May 13, 2014 5:41 pm

greggsand wrote:Isn't the PS4 camera just a 'bolt-on' as well?

It is and I would love for someone to post a figure how many have been sold compared to XB1 with Kinect. I bet it's not as wide of a gap as some would think. Based on the number of Live on PSN shows thanks to the Playroom I can see redneck drink beer, smoke weed, bang thier skanky girlfriend doggy style and sometime dress up as batman.

My gripe is I never wanted the Kinect included, somewhere in this massive archive of postings I said that. MS claimed it was vital to the system and couldn't be sold without it, so I bought and now it's gone. All the features like sharing that were remotely interesting...gone.

They have lost my trust and anyone thinking of buying should just wait it out because when this hail mary doesn't boost sales they will either drop the price again or just scrap this generation and move to the next as quickly as possible.

EDIT: Found an article from March 20th

The camera has a 15% attach rate to the PS4, which translates to about 900,000 units sold.

skinsfan · Post by **skinsfan** » Tue May 13, 2014 6:02 pm

Danimal wrote:
greggsand wrote:Isn't the PS4 camera just a 'bolt-on' as well?
It is and I would love for someone to post a figure how many have been sold compared to XB1 with Kinect. I bet it's not as wide of a gap as some would think. Based on the number of Live on PSN shows thanks to the Playroom I can see redneck drink beer, smoke weed, bang thier skanky girlfriend doggy style and sometime dress up as batman.

My gripe is I never wanted the Kinect included, somewhere in this massive archive of postings I said that. MS claimed it was vital to the system and couldn't be sold without it, so I bought and now it's gone. All the features like sharing that were remotely interesting...gone.

They have lost my trust and anyone thinking of buying should just wait it out because when this hail mary doesn't boost sales they will either drop the price again or just scrap this generation and move to the next as quickly as possible.

EDIT: Found an article from March 20th

The camera has a 15% attach rate to the PS4, which translates to about 900,000 units sold.

Yeah a $100 price cut 7 months into a consoles' life cycle doesn't bode well. At this rate,it may be $199 next year.
Also, Polygon has collected the choicest cuts from MS vis-a-vis Kinect;
http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/13/571412 ... t-xbox-one

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Tue May 13, 2014 9:04 pm

For all intents and purposes, the Xbox One is now a souped up Xbox 360 with an updated user interface which some still don't like and some nifty sharing features. The PS4 is slightly more powerful in the graphics department along a solid controller. Same price, hmm.

Never cared about the Kinect, MS doesn't even have a contract with any TV carriers here.

Developers won’t be compelled to forge any relationship with Kinect on the gameplay side of things anymore and App programmers will not be convinced to develop voice controls (another biggie for MS) for their upcoming Xbox One software.

Yeah, and agree that the new price drop is not enough to anchor a sinking ship.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue May 13, 2014 9:14 pm

I think I read an article on Polygon which said that MS might use the extra processing power that was being used for the Kinect and allow the developers to use it in their games instead.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue May 13, 2014 9:22 pm

10spro wrote:For all intents and purposes, the Xbox One is now a souped up Xbox 360 with an updated user interface which some still don't like and some nifty sharing features.

Which is essentially what the PS4 has been since day 1. As I said previously the main participants in this hobby are easily impressed with minimal upgrades. If the XB1 launched as it stand now along side the PS4 it would be doing fine. They tried and failed and took PR hit after PR hit and now they just look foolish.

It's amazing how the PS4 is smelling like a rose when there is entirely nothing special about it. This "next generation" is the equivalent of me upgrading my PC.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue May 13, 2014 9:38 pm

Macca00 wrote:Now that the Kinect is going to be another add-on/peripheral and not something developers can guarantee is with every console I guess we can say goodbye to any notion that we'll see innovative or even mildly interesting uses of the Kinect in the future.

First the 180 on DRM and now dropping Kinect, how bloody reactionary are Microsoft? I know it's getting outsold by the PS4 but I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, because I very well could be) it's outselling the 360 at the equivalent point in its life cycle). It's also still THE SAME price as the PS4 despite having less powerful hardware and now no Kinect to differentiate it from being 'just another console'.

100% correct! Sorry to say. Nothing new for us.

Danimal wrote:
10spro wrote:For all intents and purposes, the Xbox One is now a souped up Xbox 360 with an updated user interface which some still don't like and some nifty sharing features.
Which is essentially what the PS4 has been since day 1.

Thats how I see it as well. Except now the XB1 is a less souped up 360 than the PS4 is a souped up PS3??? Correct? or no?

XB1 had a chance to be something different. Whether it was poor marketing, poor execution, or just not the right time...It doesnt matter. The people have spoken and MS have caved.

Next gen maybe...

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Tue May 13, 2014 11:58 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Macca00 wrote:Now that the Kinect is going to be another add-on/peripheral and not something developers can guarantee is with every console I guess we can say goodbye to any notion that we'll see innovative or even mildly interesting uses of the Kinect in the future.

First the 180 on DRM and now dropping Kinect, how bloody reactionary are Microsoft? I know it's getting outsold by the PS4 but I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, because I very well could be) it's outselling the 360 at the equivalent point in its life cycle). It's also still THE SAME price as the PS4 despite having less powerful hardware and now no Kinect to differentiate it from being 'just another console'.
100% correct! Sorry to say. Nothing new for us.

Danimal wrote:
10spro wrote:For all intents and purposes, the Xbox One is now a souped up Xbox 360 with an updated user interface which some still don't like and some nifty sharing features.
Which is essentially what the PS4 has been since day 1.

Thats how I see it as well. Except now the XB1 is a less souped up 360 than the PS4 is a souped up PS3??? Correct? or no?

XB1 had a chance to be something different. Whether it was poor marketing, poor execution, or just not the right time...It doesnt matter. The people have spoken and MS have caved.

Next gen maybe...

Wasn't too hard to improve on the PS3.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Wed May 14, 2014 12:56 am

Diablo25 wrote: Wasn't too hard to improve on the PS3.

Good point.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed May 14, 2014 1:23 am

XXXIV wrote: Thats how I see it as well. Except now the XB1 is a less souped up 360 than the PS4 is a souped up PS3??? Correct? or no?

The PS4 is much better than the PS3 but IMO my comparison is spot on. There is nothing revolutionary about it, it's just better hardware.

skinsfan · Post by **skinsfan** » Wed May 14, 2014 6:07 am

Danimal wrote:
XXXIV wrote: Thats how I see it as well. Except now the XB1 is a less souped up 360 than the PS4 is a souped up PS3??? Correct? or no?
The PS4 is much better than the PS3 but IMO my comparison is spot on. There is nothing revolutionary about it, it's just better hardware.

Although the PS3 is a better media device than the PS4 at the moment.

vader29 · Post by **vader29** » Wed May 14, 2014 6:25 am

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed May 14, 2014 9:11 am

Rodster wrote:I think I read an article on Polygon which said that MS might use the extra processing power that was being used for the Kinect and allow the developers to use it in their games instead.

Yep. Read that, too. Plus the reporter of that piece, Brian Crescente, made a good point yesterday on the "Friends List" podcast at Polygon: What about the developers that designed games around the Kinect, such as developers of music games? Their potential audience was just slashed, possibly during the late phases of development.

A lovely F U from Microsoft.

The more I think about this move, the more I think it makes sense to sit back and watch everything unfold before I get a next-gen console. There probably will be a reactionary price cut from Sony if MS makes sales gains with this Kinect-less unit. I'm also curious to see if developers can harness extra power previous devoted to the Kinect to enhance XB1 games.

And I'm gone two or three weekends per month during the summer with my new job, so I don't have time to play, anyways!

Final thought: I wonder what Don Mattrick thinks about all this?

LAking · Post by **LAking** » Wed May 14, 2014 1:05 pm

I'm a little late to the conversation but I'm pretty disappointed with this announcement. Like others have said, the Kinect is what made the XB1 truly "next gen". I don't own a next gen console yet but I was planning on going with XB1 first because of its Kinect features. I'm was excited about the prospect of using it to control media functions on the console and maybe being able to bark out line changes in future EA NHL games. Now I'm worried that support and future improvement of those features may go by the wayside.

I think this Forbes article sums it up for me: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevange ... ible-news/

I've got a nice gaming PC connected directly to my TV. It has so far satisfied all my gaming desires. The only reason why I would need a next gen console at this point is for sports games like NHL 15. The XB1 was at least offering me something beyond a gaming console that would be used for 2 or 3 games a year. Now I'm not so sure. I've got around $200 in Gamestop credit just waiting to be spent on a next gen console. Maybe I should just sell it instead.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Wed May 14, 2014 1:08 pm

Good read on the history of Nintendo :

http://grantland.com/features/the-rise- ... s-history/

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu May 15, 2014 1:21 pm

If you look at the history of different controllers, none of them had staying power to displace the control pad.

We've had power gloves, the Wii wand, the WiiU tablet and so on. The Wii had some limited success but the fad wore off.

By the time the X1 and Kinect2 were introduced, the Wii and the Kinect1 had been around 5 years, so this notion that there would be some radical new gameplay mechanics to come because Kinect2 was an evolutionary improvement over the Kinect1 was dubious to begin with.

All MS could show were tech demos and dance games. The developers weren't inspired nor interested. The big games were selling millions of copies without having to support motion controls. The smaller developers would have to spend more money and limit their potential market in order to support the Kinect2.

Meanwhile, the Kinect2 like all other motion control schemes couldn't even match the performance of control pads because of the latency.

No matter how much they tried to claim that the K2 was about game innovation, the truth was that they hoped it would revolutionize non-gaming UI, the TV control and such, the way multitouch revolutionized phones and mobile devices. That was the home run they were swinging for, not redefining gaming but reaching the non-gaming audience and redefining how they consume media.

Now all they can do is try to salvage the brand and probably watch others try to bring new UI to the living room.

Digital Sportspage

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