XBox One AND PS4 Discussion

[wco81]

If sales trail the PS4 because of the price difference, why wouldn't they consider a new hardware revision without the Kinect, which would make it easy to get to price parity?

Games will have to really make the Kinect more useful. I don't see people paying even $100 extra to change channels by speaking out commands.

[LAking]

I think if they stuck to their guns, they'd have gotten the first few millions of loyal 360 gamers to migrate to the new console, especially after the next Halo came out. They might also have an exclusive or two become a big hit, selling the consoles.

But in the long run, unless lower prices materialized the re-selling restrictions would have taken its toll.

I think it may have been the opposite. PS4 would have sold more in the initial rush where it's primarily the hard core gamers. You know, the vocal minority who were making the stink about the DRM to begin with. After that I think you would see the casual gamers and families buy into what MS was selling. I think their TV features and such would have drawn in a wider demographic. Also, I think the prices of digital downloads could have lured in the hardcore gamers as well.

[Macca00]

I see this is as possibly hurting digital distribution and potential Steam-like sales.

I disagree. I don't think DRM is the reason why Steam has great sales.

Look at GOG - they always have great deals and are DRM free - this week Torchlight is free (FREE) and other games are up to 85% off.

If DRM was the key to having great sales then Origin would have 75% off sales and....so would X-Box Live NOW - there is nothing stopping Microsoft giving great deals on on-demand games currently.* It's not like I can download The Witcher 2 off Xbox Live Games-on-Demand and then take it to my friend's house on USB stick - it has DRM built in. Yet, The Witcher 2 is $40 on Xbox Live and $5.99 (FIVE f***in NINETY NINE) on DRM-free Good Old Games.com

I don't think you can assume that XBOX ONE suddenly moving to an online requirement is suddenly going to make Microsoft change their business practices.

EDIT: * They do have weekly deals but it's nothing like Steam despite the fact that those games you download from Live are linked to your profile.

[Zeppo]

It sounds like if this is true, one would not be able to install a disc based game onto the Xbone and then be able to play that game directly from the HDD, but will rather have to insert / swap in the BluRay disc when you wanted to play as you do now on the 360.

This will surely heavily reduce the convenience factor of playing games on the machine, such as the ability to instantly swap from one game to another if for example you are waiting for matchmaking to find you an appropriate match and so on. Meaning that the huge convenience of being able to play a little Forza while you wait in the lobby of, say, Battlefield for a game with enough room for the whole party to become available will only be possible if at least one of those games was bought online. As they had previously claimed the system would work, this kind of feature would have functioned perfectly well for any games including disc based games because you could install the game and never have to insert the disc into the machine again in order to play it.

Thus convenice and ease of use are reduced, perhaps significantly. Or maybe you will be able to play installed disc based games if you have your machine online. I'm not entirely clear on what they are now promoting.

[LAking]

If sales trail the PS4 because of the price difference, why wouldn't they consider a new hardware revision without the Kinect, which would make it easy to get to price parity?

Games will have to really make the Kinect more useful. I don't see people paying even $100 extra to change channels by speaking out commands.

They will be paying $100 extra for the voice commands, the games that will be much more likely to take advantage of an ALWAYS INCLUDED KINECT, the Skype calls. It's clearly not just changing channels. Didn't you see that fantasy basketball demonstration? PS4 is targeting a much more narrow consumer base. MS wants there device to be in every household, even ones without hard core gamers. Kinect is a huge part of that strategy. Making it optional would be confusing to the consumers they are trying to attract and eliminate the incentive for developers to use it just like every other add-on peripheral ever made for consoles.

It's not happening. I will bet my life on it.

[Brando70]

Tell me about it. Having to ask for Magnum-sized rubbers can be awkward!

I always hated buying personal items (like tampons) for my significant other. Clearly you agree.

I just have to tip my cap as I watch that ball sail out of the park and hit the bull. Enjoy your free steak

[Teal]

I think it's a stupid thing to do, to bend to what amounts to irrational emotion-based reactions. I was very much looking forward to being able to completely install games and not have to worry about spinning a disc at all. I didn't see it mentioned...so, does this eliminate one of the coolest aspects, of being able to play your games on your profile on any system? If it does, it's a monumentally stupid thing to do. That was going to be a game changer, once all the hyperventilating and bloviating stopped.

If they're going to strip the X1 of all of that, then they need to drop the price, too, by at least 50 bucks.

[Zeppo]

so, does this eliminate one of the coolest aspects, of being able to play your games on your profile on any system?

Right. That's another consumer-friendly convenience factor besides the one I thought of that would have been unique to the Xbone that seems to have now been taken away from Xbone purchasers in exchange for what, I'm not sure.

[Naples39]

I think it's a stupid thing to do, to bend to what amounts to irrational emotion-based reactions. I was very much looking forward to being able to completely install games and not have to worry about spinning a disc at all. I didn't see it mentioned...so, does this eliminate one of the coolest aspects, of being able to play your games on your profile on any system? If it does, it's a monumentally stupid thing to do. That was going to be a game changer, once all the hyperventilating and bloviating stopped.

If they're going to strip the X1 of all of that, then they need to drop the price, too, by at least 50 bucks.

I kind of agree here. Before Xbone had limitations, but it also had other possibilities. It was offering a unique product and service. Now it's just a more expensive PS4, which is just a souped up PS3.

MS has no duty to risk a fortune to try and usher a new business model and service to gamers, but catering to the great internet freakout is not a victory. Gamers that clung to the old model and didn't want change had a product, and a choice at a slightly different alternative that offered different pros and cons. Now they have 2 largely indistinguishable products.

My plan was to probably get a PS4 at launch due to price, and see how MS developed their digital distribution and what advantages it may have provided. If this change of policy alters their long term digital distribution plans and unique console benefits (I'm presuming here), I have no reason to get a Xbone, ever.

Gamers lose by MS switching today.

[Danimal]

http://kotaku.com/surprise-xbox-one-drm ... Socialflow

Yep lost the 2 coolest features of the system due to nerd rage.

[Danimal]

Now to me, personally, PS4 is merely the better choice rather than the only choice.

Why is it the better choice? What sets it apart?

[dbdynsty25]

Now to me, personally, PS4 is merely the better choice rather than the only choice.

Why is it the better choice? What sets it apart?

For me, three reasons:

Mostly a gaming system. Not looking to be the center of your home theater universe.

Higher specs

MLB The Show

[Brando70]

I think it's a stupid thing to do, to bend to what amounts to irrational emotion-based reactions. I was very much looking forward to being able to completely install games and not have to worry about spinning a disc at all. I didn't see it mentioned...so, does this eliminate one of the coolest aspects, of being able to play your games on your profile on any system? If it does, it's a monumentally stupid thing to do. That was going to be a game changer, once all the hyperventilating and bloviating stopped.

If they're going to strip the X1 of all of that, then they need to drop the price, too, by at least 50 bucks.

I'm going to get much more benefit out of still being able to sell my games than play my games on another system. No hyperventilating, just enjoy getting 2-3 games a year based on trade-in credit.

Also, they wouldn't do such an about-face unless they really thought they were screwed. What they should do is make it that the sharing stuff works for digital download and the disc stuff has some restrictions. That way we could have choice and everyone could have their very own slice of satisfaction.

[Macca00]

Man...all those XBOX ONE games that used THE POWER OF THE CLOUD are probably going to be cancelled now since they were so dependent upon it for processing power....





I am still in shock from all of this. Whether it's the internet nerds or Jimmy Fallon (ha, Dan!) I am stunned by this about-face by Microsoft. They must have been really shaken.

[Teal]

I know that once I get an XB1, my days of going to Gamestop or Wal Mart or Best Buy will be severely diminished. I'll be buying my games digitally, for the most part. Sure, there might be the occasional disc-based SP game that I purchase via disc, but most will be digital. Also, my game buying would be limited to only those games that have a medium-to-high replay value, such as BF4 or Forza.

The digital purchases should still be allowed in the Cloud so that I can play them wherever via my profile. It burns me that teh interwebs nerds and their "have my cake and eat it too" mentality have been so quick to bring down what was really a forward thinking model. People resist change all the time, but if Sony had done that last generation...we'd have HD-DVD as a standard instead of Blu-Ray.

In short, while I'm not too concerned about the disc-based changes, I think that those who adopt the digital model should be the ones who have Cloud access as they were going to originally. "Just more of the same, but purdier" wasn't what I was looking forward to.

[LAking]

I think it's a stupid thing to do, to bend to what amounts to irrational emotion-based reactions. I was very much looking forward to being able to completely install games and not have to worry about spinning a disc at all. I didn't see it mentioned...so, does this eliminate one of the coolest aspects, of being able to play your games on your profile on any system? If it does, it's a monumentally stupid thing to do. That was going to be a game changer, once all the hyperventilating and bloviating stopped.

If they're going to strip the X1 of all of that, then they need to drop the price, too, by at least 50 bucks.

I'm going to get much more benefit out of still being able to sell my games than play my games on another system. No hyperventilating, just enjoy getting 2-3 games a year based on trade-in credit.

Also, they wouldn't do such an about-face unless they really thought they were screwed. What they should do is make it that the sharing stuff works for digital download and the disc stuff has some restrictions. That way we could have choice and everyone could have their very own slice of satisfaction.

Except that you were still going to be able to sell used games under the old rules. Did people not see that part?

The idea was that you could trade in a game at gamestop or amazon who would then enter the serial # into Microsoft's system. This would basically remove the license that was tied to your account now allowing it tobe associated with a different users account once resold. Also, the developers and publishers would at least see some kind of profit from these second hand sales instead of it all going to Gamestop.

I'm with Teal, Zeppo, Naples and Danimal on this. Xbox One is now too much like PS4, just more of the same but with "purdier" graphics. I still like the possibilities of the Kinect and some of those TV features so it's more enticing than the PS4 but it's lost some of it's luster with me.

[Teal]

http://kotaku.com/surprise-xbox-one-drm ... Socialflow

Yep lost the 2 coolest features of the system due to nerd rage.

"There’s a few things we won’t be able to deliver as a result of this change," Marc Whitten, v.p. of Xbox Live told Kotaku, "One of the things we were very exicted about was 'wherever we go my games are always with me.' Now, of course, your physical games won’t show up that way. The content you bought digitally will. But you’ll have to bring your discs with you to have your games with you. Similarly, the sharing library [is something] we won’t be able to deliver at launch."

So am I reading that right? If you buy a game digitally, it will still work in the Cloud, and you will still be able to play your game on any system? If so, that seals the deal on my digital-only buying practices once I get an XB1.

[Zeppo]

It seems to me you are reading that right, teal. Downloaded games will still have all the features they promised.

Tthese changes mean for me, I am probably going to want to buy all my games online rather than buying games from retail stores. If other Xbone users start to feel the same way, as they realize disc based games provide fewer convenince factors such as "my games anywhere" or sharing any game with up to 10 profles on the same XBL account, this could really hurt the couple of mom and pop stores near me not to mention the brick and mortar retail behemoths or even amazon. Maybe it won't make a dent for the big stores in the end, I don't know.

But for me, the convenice of never having to lug my game discs and my HDD anymore when I visit my Dad in DC was an intriguing new feature of the new machine. I believe it will be a factor in me deciding whether or not to download a game vs buying a disc. It's too bad. I just don't see myself ever wanting to buy a disc and thus give up so much convenice and ease of use.

[LAking]

It seems to me you are reading that right, teal. Downloaded games will still have all the features they promised.

Tthese changes mean for me, I am probably going to want to buy all my games online rather than buying games from retail stores. If other Xbone users start to feel the same way, as they realize disc based games provide fewer convenince factors such as "my games anywhere" or sharing any game with up to 10 profles on the same XBL account, this could really hurt the couple of mom and pop stores near me not to mention the brick and mortar retail behemoths or even amazon. Maybe it won't make a dent for the big stores in the end, I don't know.

But for me, the convenice of never having to lug my game discs and my HDD anymore when I visit my Dad in DC was an intriguing new feature of the new machine. I believe it will be a factor in me deciding whether or not to download a game vs buying a disc. It's too bad. I just don't see myself ever wanting to buy a disc and thus give up so much convenice and ease of use.

This feature is now gone from what I understand.

[Pete1210]

This was the right move for now. A business decision. Most folks are not ready for and did not understand what the heck this new digital hybrid model was. Now it takes the major selling point away from Sony.

Early adapters can still go digital only. You could even start now on the 360; there around 1000 Games on Demand. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xb ... _on_Demand)

And during this next gen MS can introduce a revised disc free Xbox One for those ready to go digital only.

[Teal]

I pulled that quote from an interview about Microsoft's reversal. So if it is no longer available, then the response was poorly worded. Further, if I buy the games digitally, there's no reason to remove that aspect from purely digital downloads.

Sigh...the whole thing is just a bigger mess than it (perceiveably) was before. In my mind, the waffling just makes them look weaker, not "consumer-friendly". I personally believe all the "anti-consumerist" nonsense to be just that. Just a bunch of bellowing, that has been picked up and carried further with little critical thought to the actual facts and realities. If you disagree with me, fine. You have that right. But really, I think MS had an opportunity that they are letting slip by, potentially allowing another company to come in and be the trailblazer, taking their thunder...all in the name of video-game politics, and high pitched wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Caving to the screaching masses kills their most attractive and promising ideas, IMO.

[LAking]

I pulled that quote from an interview about Microsoft's reversal. So if it is no longer available, then the response was poorly worded. Further, if I buy the games digitally, there's no reason to remove that aspect from purely digital downloads.

Sigh...the whole thing is just a bigger mess than it (perceiveably) was before. In my mind, the waffling just makes them look weaker, not "consumer-friendly". I personally believe all the "anti-consumerist" nonsense to be just that. Just a bunch of bellowing, that has been picked up and carried further with little critical thought to the actual facts and realities. If you disagree with me, fine. You have that right. But really, I think MS had an opportunity that they are letting slip by, potentially allowing another company to come in and be the trailblazer, taking their thunder...all in the name of video-game politics, and high pitched wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Caving to the screaching masses kills their most attractive and promising ideas, IMO.

Agree 100%.

[10spro]

The biggest losers from MS giving in to gamers’ demands are the game publishers such as EA and Activision. The reason is that the gaming publishers do not get any portion of the revenue from the used games. Electronic Arts is set for a quick trade from the short side on this news. Wouldn't be surprised if the shares at Gamestop went back up. This decision makes my ownership of both new consoles much quicker, although I wished that the KINECT was still an option.

Two thumbs up for the 180 Xbox.

[10spro]

Another big plus for me is that all games are going to be region free for the Xbone.

[Teal]

The biggest losers from MS giving in to gamers’ demands are the game publishers such as EA and Activision. The reason is that the gaming publishers do not get any portion of the revenue from the used games. Electronic Arts is set for a quick trade from the short side on this news. Wouldn't be surprised if the shares at Gamestop went back up. This decision makes my ownership of both new consoles much quicker, although I wished that the KINECT was still an option.

Two thumbs up for the 180 Xbox.

The "don't fix it even if it IS broken" crowd is going to kill the industry. People who work in the industry have been sounding the alarm for a while now, and, with this announcement, we'll just continue to see the supply side diminish...even as the demand side gets louder.