XBox One AND PS4 Discussion

[RobVarak]

Interesting details on the need for the One to phone in every 24hrs. It can be done over your mobile phone.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/ ... ur-games-b

[Leebo33]

Very good article, and very valid points made by the guy...
http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-eng ... id-points/

"Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4."

I'm pretty much in the latter group so I feel a little better about my pre-order of a PS4 after reading this. I'm really just looking for a gaming system that I can play (mostly sports) games on with my two boys and The Show is a big exclusive to us. My family has pretty much eliminated TV from our lives. I have considered dumping Fios but we still like to watch sports too much to do so. I'm sure I'll end up with both but so far I'm surprised how easy Microsoft made the decision for me on which to get first as I thought it would be a lot tougher.

[dbdynsty25]

"Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4."

I'm pretty much in the latter group so I feel a little better about my pre-order of a PS4 after reading this. I'm really just looking for a gaming system that I can play (mostly sports) games on with my two boys and The Show is a big exclusive to us. My family has pretty much eliminated TV from our lives. I have considered dumping Fios but we still like to watch sports too much to do so. I'm sure I'll end up with both but so far I'm surprised how easy Microsoft made the decision for me on which to get first as I thought it would be a lot tougher.

QFT. Exactly my situation, like exactly exactly.

[wco81]

If they had just eliminated retail disc and moved forward to e-purchases the XONE ordeal probably would have gone over better with the press and gamers. They did it with XBL when they first rolled it out and said DSL/High Speed internet only.

They were truthful and people said OK if those are the rules fine. Sony sucked with the PS2 and online. So I still say it would have been better if MS just said XONE requires all purchases to be made using real currency via XBL. They would have been the gate keeper and paid the devs accordingly just like Steam does.

Then who would have sold their consoles? Stores make no money on the hardware so they have to sell games to make up some margins.

Plus a lot of people can't get reliable broadband. If you notice, they're not rolling out the X1 in many developed countries, including Japan. I know they didn't sell well over there but it's still the 3rd or 4th largest economy in the world, bigger than any country in Europe except possibly Germany. But they want to sell hundreds of millions of these things over the next generation, making it a iPhone or Galaxy type of a blockbuster product. They can't do that if they don't sell well in all the big economies.

Anyways, given how much selling people do of games on eBay and Craigslist, I'm surprised people are blasé about not being able to re-sell games. If you go downloads and pay $60 (even though downloads cost them a lot less than having to print discs and boxes and ship them around), you won't be able to re-sell games like many people have been able to do, to buy more games.

[Rodster]

If they had just eliminated retail disc and moved forward to e-purchases the XONE ordeal probably would have gone over better with the press and gamers. They did it with XBL when they first rolled it out and said DSL/High Speed internet only.

They were truthful and people said OK if those are the rules fine. Sony sucked with the PS2 and online. So I still say it would have been better if MS just said XONE requires all purchases to be made using real currency via XBL. They would have been the gate keeper and paid the devs accordingly just like Steam does.

Then who would have sold their consoles? Stores make no money on the hardware so they have to sell games to make up some margins.

Plus a lot of people can't get reliable broadband. If you notice, they're not rolling out the X1 in many developed countries, including Japan. I know they didn't sell well over there but it's still the 3rd or 4th largest economy in the world, bigger than any country in Europe except possibly Germany. But they want to sell hundreds of millions of these things over the next generation, making it a iPhone or Galaxy type of a blockbuster product. They can't do that if they don't sell well in all the big economies.

Anyways, given how much selling people do of games on eBay and Craigslist, I'm surprised people are blasé about not being able to re-sell games. If you go downloads and pay $60 (even though downloads cost them a lot less than having to print discs and boxes and ship them around), you won't be able to re-sell games like many people have been able to do, to buy more games.

Easy answer: Sell downloadable game codes like they do for the PC.

[wco81]

If you're going to buy a download game, why wouldn't you just do it online rather than go to the stores to buy a code, come back home and punch that code in so you can download the game?


Now I would buy PSN cards at stores so that I don't have to store my credit card number with PSN, if I want to pay for game downloads or PSN+

But losing the convenience of paying for that transaction online may be worth the tradeoff of keeping your credit card number from MS or Sony.

I still wouldn't trade the ability to re-sell games though for convenience alone.

[Rodster]

If you're going to buy a download game, why wouldn't you just do it online rather than go to the stores to buy a code, come back home and punch that code in so you can download the game?


Now I would buy PSN cards at stores so that I don't have to store my credit card number with PSN, if I want to pay for game downloads or PSN+

But losing the convenience of paying for that transaction online may be worth the tradeoff of keeping your credit card number from MS or Sony.

I still wouldn't trade the ability to re-sell games though for convenience alone.

For the same reason Gamestop sells PSN+ and XBL cards along with PSN and XBL money cards. They make money from selling them. When I was really into console gaming, I rarely bought anything from MS directly and that was because I knew the guys who worked at Gamestop and we used to BS about games and such.

[Macca00]

Interesting details on the need for the One to phone in every 24hrs. It can be done over your mobile phone.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/ ... ur-games-b

That makes a massive difference - even if your internet goes out you usually have 3G/4G through your phone.

[rhymes450]

As a punter who plays non-exclusive (soccer) games offline, I'll probably go for a ps4. Apparently, the graphics will be better too, though developers will probably use a lowest-common-denominator policy when creating games for both systems. I also prefer to pay for something, own it and then do what I want with it. I see it as a retrograde step having to connect to internet to play a videogame offline.

[Teal]

As a punter who plays non-exclusive (soccer) games offline, I'll probably go for a ps4. Apparently, the graphics will be better too, though developers will probably use a lowest-common-denominator policy when creating games for both systems. I also prefer to pay for something, own it and then do what I want with it. I see it as a retrograde step having to connect to internet to play a videogame offline.

That's fine, if you don't count on ever playing online, and never having access to improvements, expansions, updates, patches. If you can imagine getting an EA sports game that never gets any better than the one you bring home, then you should be fine...

[rhymes450]

As a punter who plays non-exclusive (soccer) games offline, I'll probably go for a ps4. Apparently, the graphics will be better too, though developers will probably use a lowest-common-denominator policy when creating games for both systems. I also prefer to pay for something, own it and then do what I want with it. I see it as a retrograde step having to connect to internet to play a videogame offline.

That's fine, if you don't count on ever playing online, and never having access to improvements, expansions, updates, patches. If you can imagine getting an EA sports game that never gets any better than the one you bring home, then you should be fine...

Fair point. But I still think I should have access to those "improvements" as and when they become available and not have to check in every 24 hours for...nothing. It's possible in 2013 so I'm not sure why it can't be an option in 2014. In any case, I accept the fact that I'm a bit of a dinosaur (apart from being extremely genre-specific) in gaming terms and I also should have mentioned that the price point will probably be the most important consideration, in the same way that it was when I opted for the 360 over the ps3.

[Teal]

I liked this op-ed. This explains why I and a few others just aren't all that concerned about XB1's direction, nor any of the features that have been exacerbated into full blown Defcon 1 status:

http://www.wpcentral.com/lets-talk-xbox-drm

[Rodster]

That entire article and explanation is fine and dandy but it still goes against the grain of what gamers still want. There is SO much backlash over this you are already seeing major publishers like EA already backing away from the idea saying gamers come first and that the XONE DRM was not their idea and they were not pushing MS to do it.

And i'm sure as games are introduced on the PS4 gamers will be watching for intrusive DRM and will voice their anger over that with their reviews which in turn will hurt sales. This whole idea put out by MS is so polarizing that game publishers want NO part of pissing off gamers. So as it stands right now, MS is on it's own island.

[Teal]

Well, I'M a gamer, as is the writer or the article, so I'm pretty sure you can't make that generalization. Further, what "gamers want" is going to tank the industry that gamers claim to love before long. It's been heading that way for some time. Make zero mistake about it, PS4's big "announcement" was a smoke filled PR stunt and little else. They will do the same thing without being up front about it, and use some technocrat language to try and make people believe they aren't seeing what they're seeing. EA is also blowing smoke. About the only ones telling the truth about what they are doing is MS and Blezinski, and they're being called arrogant for doing so! Lol. This is cassettes to CD'S stuff, its where the industry is going, no matter how much they lie and say they aren't, or hoe much people believe them and crow.

[GameSeven]

http://www.wpcentral.com/lets-talk-xbox-drm

I'm a MS advocate and I think these "sunny day" editorials aren't particularly useful but advocates of both sides seem to need to deal in hyperbole in an attempt to sway mind share.

I *do* think MS's long view isn't necessarily consumer-averse as much as it is reseller-averse. How they navigate the physical media marketplace while providing a product that is not physical-media centric will be interesting to say the least. At face value, it would seem to kill the Gamefly/Redbox rental market, and be a disincentive to distributors to promote XB1 titles, where they'd instead like to increase the supply of (ostensibly) easily resellable games.

My biggest takeaway from the article as a gamer is a user comment:

People might be annoyed by the princle, but the logic of your 24 offline limit arguement is also flawed.
Discs will come with a code (like a prepaid code) so that they're effectively the same as a download. You redeem that code when you install it. It should then be like a download on the 360; you can play it offline without restriction (local license), you can play it on a different console if you're signed in(roaming license), with the added benefit of a 'family member' being able to play it on a different machine ( with a new family license). Online checks, if done properly, should only be required for roaming and family license checks. Search google for details about 360 local and roaming licenses... you'll find stuff on the microsoft website.
If they allow resale, then they just have to make an owner unregister the original code on the original console itself, which would ensure that the game is uninstalled. The store you take it to then check with Microsoft that the code has been unregistered. I love the idea of no discs needed, and am not bothered by resale, but the 24 hour limit is not needed. Microsoft might have gone down that route, but it's not needed for this to work. I've signed up to many sites to make this point because no one else is explaining why it's needed in detail, and i feel passionately about both xbox and our rights to play offline.

It's presumed that the 24-hour checkin is required to ensure your license still belongs to you. I'd say they'd be better off altogether scrapping it by virtue of requiring the actual license to be physically removed from your console before transferring it (either for resale or other purpose). Require a game intended to be sold or transferred to be "moved to the cloud," so to speak, while the machine is connected. I suppose the concern might be the piracy angle, but restricting the masses for such a reason doesn't engender a lot of trust in your end-users.

Or hell, perform the check-in as long as the machine is connected... most of ours are already. But defer to trusting the last online-authentication after the console has gone offline, but you would not be able to sell or transfer any of that content before reconnecting and disassociating the machine to the license for the content in question.

[MizzouRah]

I liked this op-ed. This explains why I and a few others just aren't all that concerned about XB1's direction, nor any of the features that have been exacerbated into full blown Defcon 1 status:

http://www.wpcentral.com/lets-talk-xbox-drm

Exactly.. I've bought more Steam games over the past 3 months than any "disk" games on my x360, it's not even close. I don't care about going out to Gamestop to purchase games anymore, I'd much prefer to download them to my console the day it releases.

The more I read about both systems, the more I'm still in the xb1 camp. Still lots of time though...

[Inuyasha]

So xb1 games can only be traded into gamestop and nowhere else like eBay or amazon ?

Just great if true. Gs the scum of the scum will be the only option. Here how it'll go

New xb1 game $59.99
Used xb1 game $57.99

This thing is becoming a huge mess for ms.

And leebo's comment is right on with the way I feel too.

[GameSeven]

So xb1 games can only be traded into gamestop and nowhere else like eBay or amazon ?

Has that been established? I don't know if the 'participating' retailers have been established, but I'd think Big River would qualify for having the appropriate infrastructure for dealing in resales.

But really, the market implications of these decisions is so very much in flux. The demand curve for games is not going to change. Microsoft is just seeking to control a market that has delivered zero dollars to them and their content providers in the past, while at the same time challenging the piracy market which has cost them millions.

But *if* they don't meet prices the market will bear, and in the face of a competitor who's policies may well result in the status quo, controlling that revenue stream will be useless as they cede the market to Sony. That's why I think it's folly to base the entire war on this one battle.

That said, they are facing the very real problem of a potentially massive installed base for PS4 if they don't garner some positive spin soon. Sadly for them, Microsoft rarely gets the benefit of the doubt from the mainstream media and they have an uphill battle on their hands.

[GameSeven]

This is probably old news, since it came out after the original reveal, but of all the XB1 'support' articles I've read, this one summarizes my thoughts best, I think...

http://tay.kotaku.com/everything-you-ha ... -509249274

[Phototropic]

So xb1 games can only be traded into gamestop and nowhere else like eBay or amazon ?

Just great if true. Gs the scum of the scum will be the only option. Here how it'll go

New xb1 game $59.99
Used xb1 game $57.99

This thing is becoming a huge mess for ms.

And leebo's comment is right on with the way I feel too.

No, that is not true. Retailers will have to be tied in to MS's system to process trades, but the retailers have not been confirmed. It will be more restricted, but I have to imagine GameStop, BestBuy, Amazon, and possibly EBay (although more involved if they have to intervene to unregister a disc) will still be available.

[Rodster]

If MS is smart they should offer same day direct download for $5 less than at retail. That way they give gamers an incentive to buy directly from them.

[webdanzer]

Anecdote time!

I reserved a PS4 early today at best buy. Wasn't planning on saying anything about the new system wars, but the customer service rep flat out asked me what I thought about the two new consoles. I shared my thoughts on why I was going for PS4, and she nodded. "We're getting SO many more pre-orders for ps4 than XB one," she said. "A lot like you who are switching over."

She did say that she was an Xbox gamer personally, though, and she wanted to wait and see more developments before committing for herself.

Of course, consider the source as a rep for a brick and mortar store that deals in trade-ins. The conversation happened after I already told her what I wanted, though, so it was not an attempt to sway me personally.

[GameSeven]

Well, I'll just get this out here in case anyone missed it. More grist for the anti-XB1 mill:

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Banned ... 56755.html

[wco81]

Pre-ordered PS4 with Madden and FIFA.

The PSN Plus requirement for online gaming was going to make me at least hold off but I had a bunch of Best Buy rewards certificates expiring later this year so placed the order online.

[Rodster]

Well, I'll just get this out here in case anyone missed it. More grist for the anti-XB1 mill:

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Banned ... 56755.html

How does one get banned from XBL other than running a modded 360?

The same goes for Steam IIRC. If your account gets banned you lose access to your library as well.